Preview: Jackpot #1

[TinkerSpider]

There is a running theme here, a position taken..that's driving such cynicism for this title and probably the MJ/BC team up to come:

This entire run is cynical and nihilisitic. No one here is operating in a vacuum. They are responding to what is on the page, IMO.

This is also what I am going to gently point out is an ad hominem logical fallacy, whereby one makes a blanket statement about a group of people's supposed states of minds/agendas instead of engaging in the individual opinions. If you see opinions you don't agree with, i hope you please engage with them! That's what a healthy conversation and exchange of opinions is about, IMO! But also IMO, a blanket ad hominem statement doesn't progress the conversation, it only gets people's backs up because they are being lumped into a group and their individual opinions dismissed. You may feel differently, of course, and that's fine, just pointing out why others may not.

Paul at the moment is just a background character, he's had his time I believe, he's not coming to the fore again...disagree with me of course, but I'm saying why continue to get so het up about this character..?

People are commenting in direct response to preview pages as well as previous unlettered preview page, which show that Paul is the deuterogonist of this issue. They are commenting directly on the pages Marvel has chosen to use to market this title and to start a conversation. That's kinda to be expected and why previews are released in the first place, to get people's reactions?

There have been many words about returning the marriage, I'm in favour of that (although I'm happy for Felicia to be in contention).....but look, I can't say I've heard anyone who supports the marriage talk about more than that MJ should be Pete's wife, and/or mother to his children...what I'm getting at is, is that it for MJ? That age old stereo-typical dynamic...wifey, mummy, supportive rock to Peter, the main protagonist..?

IMO, this run has done more to regress MJ just to being a stereotypical 1950s sitcom wife & mommy than any single previous story, an MJ who happily does all the domentic labor while her co-parent gets to play and/or sit at the table waiting to be served, an MJ who doesn't lift a finger to self-rescue herself and instead relies on big strong men to save her, an MJ who passively accepts being a victim and doesn't make one active choice for herself - not even to be a superhero which is also other people thrusting their opinions on her, an MJ who in ASM 31 even blames herself for being cursed by Rabin and putting 616 in danger when she knows full well Rabin was ALREADY from 616 and had ALREADY declared his intent to destroy 616, he said all those things back in ASM 21, but in ASM 31 MJ accepts being a victim to the point she victim blames herself. An MJ who has apparently decided to be the supportive rock (and apparently a superhero action figure monitored by him - she's not out there on her own per the unlettered pages) to a man who committed planetary extinction when the only reason she even knows that man is because she was forcibly taken from her world, thrust into a world that actively tried to kill her at every turn which would cause all sorts of trauma - and trauma reshapes the brain - forced to rely on the only other adult alive on the entire planet (because he helped to kill everyone else, just sayin') and that man lied to her from the beginning, and CHAINED to care for two children who weren't human but were magical simulacra. CHAINED. Think about what that word imples, the weighted meanings of that word.

This is one of the most egregious stories ever imposed on a female character, MJ or not.

I will be buying the one shot and team up..I like MJ, and Felicia...1

That's what money is for - to spend or not to spend as the bearer determines! Enjoy! Like I enjoyed the Amazing Mary Jane and MJ & BC: Beyond, which show this current itieration is by far not the only direction for a MJ-centric book (and MJ was already a star who takes over every page she's on, let's be real, that's why she's been as consistently popular as she is since her first full appearance in 1965)!

[Vortex85]

That's what money is for - to spend or not to spend as the bearer determines! Enjoy! Like I enjoyed the Amazing Mary Jane, which shows this current itieration is by far not the only direction for a MJ-centric book (and MJ was already a star who takes over every page she's on, let's be real, that's why she's been as consistently popular as she is since her first full appearance in 1965)!

Loved the Amazing Mary Jane! Supported the Amazing Mary Jane!

The real problem here is this run has egregiously mistreated Mary Jane as a character, put her through the worst, and made her the villain in the eyes of fandom at large. Any video covering this storyline on youtube for example is chock full of comments to the effect of "This story made me hate Mary Jane".

I have never seen so much damage done to a character and it's really unforgivable. Most people aren't going to put theirselves into MJ's shoes or give her the benefit of the doubt. They only casually know the chracter and already have a bias against her due to the Raimi films portrayal which has popularized her as a cheater. The simple story is that Peter tried his best to save MJ, but she moved on with another man before he could save her. She gave up on Peter and moved on without any official breakup. That in 95% of fandom's minds puts her in a very negative light and at fault. Now the entire Jackpot origin is intrinsically tied to this story that made the vast majority of fans dislike the character.

Jackpot is a no go. It's should be scrapped entirely. The origin is one of the worst you could possibly imagine for a character.

The whole story reinforces the belief that MJ is the most toxic love interest of Spider-Man. This is the worst and most hateful storyline to MJ that has ever been written, because it turned fandom against her. There has never been a worse time to be an MJ fan as now with this Wells run.

Thank god for Ultimate Spider-Man at this time, I hope that it can help start repairing MJ's image to some extent.

[TinkerSpider]

Loved the Amazing Mary Jane! Supported the Amazing Mary Jane!

The real problem here is this run has egregiously mistreated Mary Jane as a character, put her through the worst, and made her the villain in the eyes of fandom at large. Any video covering this storyline on youtube for example is chock full of comments to the effect of "This story made me hate Mary Jane".

I have never seen so much damage done to a character and it's really unforgivable. Most people aren't going to put theirselves into MJ's shoes or give her the benefit of the doubt. They only casually know the chracter and already have a bias against her due to the Raimi films portrayal which has popularized her as a cheater. The simple story is that Peter tried his best to save MJ, but she moved on with another man before he could save her. She gave up on Peter and moved on without any official breakup. That in 95% of fandom's minds puts her in a very negative light and at fault. Now the entire Jackpot origin is intrinsically tied to this story that made the vast majority of fans dislike the character.

Jackpot is a no go. It's should be scrapped entirely. The origin is one of the worst you could possibly imagine for a character.

The whole story reinforces the belief that MJ is the most toxic love interest of Spider-Man. This is the worst and most hateful storyline to MJ that has ever been written, because it turned fandom against her. There has never been a worse time to be an MJ fan as now with this Wells run.

Thank god for Ultimate Spider-Man at this time, I hope that it can help start repairing MJ's image to some extent.

Fruit of the poisonous tree is not just a legal concept.

[Vortex85]

Fruit of the poisonous tree is not just a legal concept.

You lost me on that one. I looked it up and it means that unlawfully obtained evidence cannot be used in court. Care to explain what your meaning is and how it relates to what I said?

[TinkerSpider]

You lost me on that one. I looked up and it means that unlawfully obtained evidence cannot be used in court. Care to explain what your meaning is?

Taking it literally: fruit that comes from a poisonous tree is also poisonous. In this case, fruit that comes from a poisonous concept/character status quo is also going to be tainted regardless of what the fruit may look and taste like.

[Vortex85]

Taking it literally: fruit that comes from a poisonous tree is also poisonous. In this case, fruit that comes from a poisonous concept/character status quo is also going to be tainted regardless of what the fruit may look and taste like.

Makes sense, thanks.

[Tapioca Blitzkrieg]

Not true. If there was a solo Jackpot series that wasn't a part of the Lowe/Wells/Paul situation I would be more inclined to pick it up.

I'm not punishing anyone. I'm just not interested in parting with my hard earned money for books using that character and this awful status quo with him and MJ.

I can get a burrito or a beer for the price of this book and I'd rather have either. It's not my responsibility to donate money to any creators. They put out a product and each consumer is allowed, guilt free, to decide if that product looks like something they want to buy.

I looked at the preview and it's not something I want to buy.

It's no different than ordering at a restaurant. I don't like mushrooms. If a dish has mushrooms on it, I'm not gonna order it unless there's a special case or someone I trust implicitly makes a compelling case for it. And nothing about this preview makes a case for this being a special book.

Perhaps energy would be better spent getting past this undeniably divisive status quo rather than trying to guilt or shame people into supporting something they don't like because it has MJ in it.

Nobody twisted anyone's arm to write what everyone knew would be an extremely controversial and divisive story. That was a conscious decision made by adults. Likely the controversy and divisiveness is what motivated them to do it because they thought they could make money off of it.

But when you divide you subtract that's just math

Damn, my man spittin' bars.

[Frontier]

So they're trying to pull another Spider-Gwen off? Damn.

Difference being Spider-Gwen had a better plot book and a better costume.

[Triniking1234]

Loved the Amazing Mary Jane! Supported the Amazing Mary Jane!

The real problem here is this run has egregiously mistreated Mary Jane as a character, put her through the worst, and made her the villain in the eyes of fandom at large. Any video covering this storyline on youtube for example is chock full of comments to the effect of "This story made me hate Mary Jane".

I have never seen so much damage done to a character and it's really unforgivable. Most people aren't going to put theirselves into MJ's shoes or give her the benefit of the doubt. They only casually know the chracter and already have a bias against her due to the Raimi films portrayal which has popularized her as a cheater. The simple story is that Peter tried his best to save MJ, but she moved on with another man before he could save her. She gave up on Peter and moved on without any official breakup. That in 95% of fandom's minds puts her in a very negative light and at fault. Now the entire Jackpot origin is intrinsically tied to this story that made the vast majority of fans dislike the character.

Jackpot is a no go. It's should be scrapped entirely. The origin is one of the worst you could possibly imagine for a character.

The whole story reinforces the belief that MJ is the most toxic love interest of Spider-Man. This is the worst and most hateful storyline to MJ that has ever been written, because it turned fandom against her. There has never been a worse time to be an MJ fan as now with this Wells run.

Thank god for Ultimate Spider-Man at this time, I hope that it can help start repairing MJ's image to some extent.

Wells writing a bad MJ compared to Spencer and Williams seems like a bad reason to hate the character. I'm still on Wells' case.

[Kevinroc]

I very much doubt this was viewed as a permanent thing internally at Marvel.

[Vortex85]

Wells writing a bad MJ compared to Spencer and Williams seems like a bad reason to hate the character. I'm still on Wells' case.

Oh yeah, I definitely don't blame MJ on this. In fact, I see her as more of a victim in this story than anyone.

However, many out there seem to want to blame MJ due to this story. The word that got out of it is Peter got cucked by Paul and MJ was compicit. She left Peter and had kids with Paul. It seems half the people out there still don't even know the kids are fake since there are videos with 2.5 million views not explaining that aspect. Then you have MJ as "MJ is the most toxic love interest ever". Type in Mary Jane Watson and its the first and biggest result on here. At the end of the video they bring this up as proof that she is toxic in EVERY universe. It seems people just eat it up too.

Just 2 years ago, Mary Jane was in a great place. People were appreciating her character and celebrating her and Peter being back together. Now the feeling is the complete opposite and MJ is getting the blame hard. Now Raimi MJ is not the only one being called a cheater, 616 MJ is too.

[SplinteringHeart]

This entire run is cynical and nihilisitic. No one here is operating in a vacuum. They are responding to what is on the page, IMO.

This is also what I am going to gently point out is an ad hominem logical fallacy, whereby one makes a blanket statement about a group of people's supposed states of minds/agendas instead of engaging in the individual opinions. If you see opinions you don't agree with, i hope you please engage with them! That's what a healthy conversation and exchange of opinions is about, IMO! But also IMO, a blanket ad hominem statement doesn't progress the conversation, it only gets people's backs up because they are being lumped into a group and their individual opinions dismissed. You may feel differently, of course, and that's fine, just pointing out why others may not.



People are commenting in direct response to preview pages as well as previous unlettered preview page, which show that Paul is the deuterogonist of this issue. They are commenting directly on the pages Marvel has chosen to use to market this title and to start a conversation. That's kinda to be expected and why previews are released in the first place, to get people's reactions?



IMO, this run has done more to regress MJ just to being a stereotypical 1950s sitcom wife & mommy than any single previous story, an MJ who happily does all the domentic labor while her co-parent gets to play and/or sit at the table waiting to be served, an MJ who doesn't lift a finger to self-rescue herself and instead relies on big strong men to save her, an MJ who passively accepts being a victim and doesn't make one active choice for herself - not even to be a superhero which is also other people thrusting their opinions on her, an MJ who in ASM 31 even blames herself for being cursed by Rabin and putting 616 in danger when she knows full well Rabin was ALREADY from 616 and had ALREADY declared his intent to destroy 616, he said all those things back in ASM 21, but in ASM 31 MJ accepts being a victim to the point she victim blames herself. An MJ who has apparently decided to be the supportive rock (and apparently a superhero action figure monitored by him - she's not out there on her own per the unlettered pages) to a man who committed planetary extinction when the only reason she even knows that man is because she was forcibly taken from her world, thrust into a world that actively tried to kill her at every turn which would cause all sorts of trauma - and trauma reshapes the brain - forced to rely on the only other adult alive on the entire planet (because he helped to kill everyone else, just sayin') and that man lied to her from the beginning, and CHAINED to care for two children who weren't human but were magical simulacra. CHAINED. Think about what that word imples, the weighted meanings of that word.

This is one of the most egregious stories ever imposed on a female character, MJ or not.



That's what money is for - to spend or not to spend as the bearer determines! Enjoy! Like I enjoyed the Amazing Mary Jane and MJ & BC: Beyond, which show this current itieration is by far not the only direction for a MJ-centric book (and MJ was already a star who takes over every page she's on, let's be real, that's why she's been as consistently popular as she is since her first full appearance in 1965)!

Couple of things:

"Forcibly taken from her world.." - did MJ not decide herself to end up on that otherworld? Did she not push Peter back so he wouldn't be swallowed into it?

Your remembrance of MJ in that world as "just" a domestic waiting table on Paul and the kids - was she not also a gun-toting, kick-ass woman in combat gear, did we not see that..?

For all her being chained to Paul and the kids into a domestic situation with Paul being an "alpha", was it not Paul that came up with the Jackpot gizmo...for MJ..?

When I mention in my previous post "cynicism of this run" I was talking about the upcoming run of MJ related stuff, Jackpot and the team up with BC (not ASM)....on this thread about Jackpot...

Yes, I accept Paul features in the preview, but he is not what the book is about, and he will not be what the BC team up is about...

[CaptainUniverse]

"Forcibly taken from her world.." - did MJ not decide herself to end up on that otherworld? Did she not push Peter back so he wouldn't be swallowed into it?

How is this her "choosing to end up on that other world?" Both her and Peter were forcibly taken from Earth-616 by Paul's father.

[LordUltimus]

Can't help but notice they don't say a single word about the kids in that preview.

[TinkerSpider]

Couple of things:

"Forcibly taken from her world.." - did MJ not decide herself to end up on that otherworld? Did she not push Peter back so he wouldn't be swallowed into it?

How does that negate that she taken to the dystopian world against her will?!

She didn't choose to stay because she thought it would be fun, she sent Peter back to save his life and the lives of everyone on 616. How does that change that HER will was violated and she was forcibly removed from her world?

Your remembrance of MJ in that world as "just" a domestic waiting table on Paul and the kids - was she not also a gun-toting, kick-ass woman in combat gear, did we not see that..?

A) Women taking on traditionally "strong man" symbols like combat gear and toting a big gun and wearing a Rambo headband does not necessarily make them kick ass nor a strong female character. It just means they are borrowing traditional "big strong male" signifiers, that's all. MJ was already a strong female character who defeated multiple supervillains with her wits, charm and/or acting skills.

B) The depictions of that pretty much stopped once she was chained into being a 1950s sitcom wife/mommy.

For all her being chained to Paul and the kids into a domestic situation with Paul being an "alpha", was it not Paul that came up with the Jackpot gizmo...for MJ..?

A) Paul did not come up with it originally for MJ, he was working on it before she arrived

B) How is a random device with random powers that one cannot control and have no way of determining so one runs the risk of pulling a power that can put you into even MORE danger, AND a device with the threat of ominous three skulls hanging over it, supposed to be seen as something positive?! It's just a nonsense plot device and obvious authorial intrusion, it serves absolutely no purpose within the world of the story and in fact, is a really asinine thing for those characters to have because it's so unpredictable and could kill them. It's nothing but a deus ex machina, because the device has nothing to do with MJ or who she is, anything that happens with the device is obviously motivated and manipulated by the writer.

C) If Paul wanted to help MJ, why didn't Paul build MJ a device to send her home? He built the one that Peter used and it only needed a minor adjustment from Peter - we're supposed to believe Paul, who could build all sorts of fantastical devices, couldn't replicate the portal device and work on that instead over the four years?

When I mention in my previous post "cynicism of this run" I was talking about the upcoming run of MJ related stuff, Jackpot and the team up with BC (not ASM)....on this thread about Jackpot...

We are talking about the preview of Jackpot. And it's fruit of the poisonous tree. The tree is very germane to the discussion.

Yes, I accept Paul features in the preview, but he is not what the book is about, and he will not be what the BC team up is about...

He is the deuteragonist of the Jackpot book. That's made clear from the preview pages and the unlettered preview pages previously released.

None of us have any idea yet how much Paul will be in the Black Cat book.