X-Men 30: Spoiler and Review.

[Nazrel]

I find it completely believable that two people trapped together, having to depend on just that other person for YEARS would develop feelings for each other. People who just share an office can develop feelings, ramp that to the extreme, add adrenaline, hormones and negative body fat physiques and you’ve got a romance.

That's because Wolverine and Cyclops aren't gay, and even then...two dudes trapped alone as the only humans for thousands of years...you might be too young to have really heard of prison.

Two presumably physically attractive people who would go for members of each other's sex under normal circumstances would be HIGHLY likely to take it there even if they hated each other when there are literally no other options. I'm not saying Duggan's writing is good, but the handwringing that "X-23 would NEVER" is unrealistic, to say the least.

It's not that it's not believable that two people would fall in love when trapped together for centuries and they're the only conventionally attractive partner available, it's that it's not compelling.
Any meaningful development happens off panel (i.e. is skipped), the audience is denied the relationship arc to become invested in, and are left with this thing you're expected to care about while having been given absolutely no reason to.

[Ilargi]

For me this is the biggest problem of the Krakoa era, everything personal happens off-panel, and then they pretend we believe it/ care.

Marital problems between Scott and Jean/ Rogue and Gambit: off-panel.
Lorna grieving for her father: off-panel.
Ev and Talon in love: off-panel.

[lefthanded]

It's not that it's not believable that two people would fall in love when trapped together for centuries and they're the only conventionally attractive partner available, it's that it's not compelling.
Any meaningful development happens off panel (i.e. is skipped), the audience is denied the relationship arc to become invested in, and are left with this thing you're expected to care about while having been given absolutely no reason to.

Exactly this.

Everything that Duggan has written, could happen (in a comic or the real world). But that doesn't mean it is well written, since he yadda yaddas a ton of stuff.

Duggan wants us to care about Synch/Talon (in this issue, he is placing side by side the Scott/Jean love with Synch/Talon love), and wants us to care about their predicament (the cliffhanger is the reveal that Talon is trapped in Synch's mind). That moment underwhelms because he failed to develop these characters and failed to get us to care about this relationship.

The best example I can give is the movie, the Sixth Sense. Both the movie and this comic are written, so that the 'twist' is the climax. The revelation of Bruce Willis' Malcolm's status is mindblowing, because of the time we spent with each character, and the seeds that were obvious in retrospect. If instead, the only thing the movie showed was a montage of (1) Malcolm seeing a psych patient, (2) Malcolm meeting Cole, (3) Cole accepting his sixth sense, (4) Malcolm realizing he is dead.

While the barest skeleton of a story, it still works, but it is a speed run, and shunts all the necessary work to making #4 feel actually impactful, off-screen.

I get that this is a comic, so we shouldn't expect anything too detailed. But if a writer is treating something as important (which Duggan clearly views the Synch/Talon storyline as important), the writer should spend some time to make it feel important. Al Ewing is able to get me to connect with characters and relationships that I had no prior history with, just by writing a few choice panels.

[Havok83]

For me this is the biggest problem of the Krakoa era, everything personal happens off-panel, and then they pretend we believe it/ care.

Marital problems between Scott and Jean/ Rogue and Gambit: off-panel.
Lorna grieving for her father: off-panel.
Ev and Talon in love: off-panel.

Is that a Krakoa problem or mroe of a modern comics issue bc I recall the same complaints in the years prior to Hickman

[Grunty]

unpopular opinion: I think they went to far with Synch powers. He used to be able to copy powers of mutants near. Now he has basically the powerset of all mutants. He used Karma and Jean that wasn´t even around.

This version of Synch is arguably also a whole different character, merely given the name and face of an long deceased one (likely to side step the issue of completely new characters being more easily rejected by the fans), while burdened with a personal narrative and power level which can only work within the confines of the current status quo.

Essentialy the writer repeated the same problematic "revival of and reinvention" tactic that was used with Moira MacTaggert.

After all, Synch was brought back and then given absolutely no time (besides a single pannel showing him hanging out with Skin) to re-establish himself in any way resembling his original characterization and relationships, before being thrown into a 100 year spanning off-pannel adventure which fundamentaly alters him into a different, more experienced and powerfull person, to the point where he is more or less emotionaly cut off from any of his former friends and family.

To put it harshly. Generation X's Synch never came back, he is still dead and ignored.

Is that a Krakoa problem or mroe of a modern comics issue bc I recall the same complaints in the years prior to Hickman

That is likely a side effect of the frequent cancelation of titles and an editorial which has shown a lack of concern towards enforcing a level of consistency and continuity for the characters and their relationships anymore.

The X-men comics in particular allready suffered from the various long lasting team continuities getting cut off around the early 00's, dooming many characters to bit appearances with increasingly bigger blank spaces in their personals stories.

Basicly during their "Golden Age" (70's to late 90's) the X-men had multiple very well maintained red strings regarding their teams and characters.

From New Mutants to X-force, Excalibur and Generation X. From the original Uncanny X-men to X-factor and back to the core titles. From All New, All Different to Excalibur and Wolverine's solo series. From X-force to Cables and Deadpools solo series. Etc.
Readers could pick up one ongoing title and then follow how everything came to be by reading from the start or following the stories backwards.

But with those cut off, characters hung around in limbo having no personal stories or developments anymore and on such a scale, that they could be radically different between every appearance.

However the Krakoa status quo can feel like a new level of escalation in this regard. Likely because of how HOX/POX was very successfull in sales while using A LOT of "off pannel" developments and changes, perhaps giving the false impression that using these methods as new standard on all titles is not only okay but accepted by the readers (rather than tollerated because of the original story's pace).

Together with the "everything in one pot" development, where basicly all mutant characters are seemingly just sitting around an island paradise doing nothing until needed for a brief team memberships, backround appearance or using their powers to resolve plots, even more developments which should be crucial for characters happend off pannel so they could fit into the space the writer needs them to fill.

Aka: "Oh this character had therapy, now she is a total team player and hero." (Basicly skipping what could have been multiple years of on pannel development).

[Havok83]

One of the worst things the Krakoa era did, which I hope goes away is the data pages. They would have been fine if used sparingly but they are used in almost every issue. They dont just flesh out minor details but often significant development happens in them and if you skip, then you'd be lost. I admit that I scan and pass them alot. They were fine in HOX/POX to establish quick world building but they shouldnt be used as a crutch to tell stories

This version of Synch is arguably also a whole different character, merely given the name and face of an long deceased one (likely to side step the issue of completely new characters being more easily rejected by the fans), while burdened with a personal narrative and power level which can only work within the confines of the current status quo.

Essentialy the writer repeated the same problematic "revival of and reinvention" tactic that was used with Moira MacTaggert.

After all, Synch was brought back and then given absolutely no time (besides a single pannel showing him hanging out with Skin) to re-establish himself in any way resembling his original characterization and relationships, before being thrown into a 100 year spanning off-pannel adventure which fundamentaly alters him into a different, more experienced and powerfull person, to the point where he is more or less emotionaly cut off from any of his former friends and family.

To put it harshly. Generation X's Synch never came back, he is still dead and ignored.

Oh I dont agree with that. i think Synch has been handled well and feels very much like an extension of the Synch we had in Gen X. He doesnt feel like a completely different character. i think it helps bc he was a very generic character. He was never dynamic nor had a particular interesting personality that stood out compared to the rest of his cast

[Nicoclaws]

Oh I dont agree with that. i think Synch has been handled well and feels very much like an extension of the Synch we had in Gen X. He doesnt feel like a completely different character. i think it helps bc he was a very generic character. He was never dynamic nor had a particular interesting personality that stood out compared to the rest of his cast

I was going to say the same thing. "Good student, empathetic, in charge and versatile with his powers" was his main characters traits, in my mind. Duggan added years to that but in X-men it felt like a continuation of the same traits, a bit evolved.

[Grunty]

One of the worst things the Krakoa era did, which I hope goes away is the data pages. They would have been fine if used sparingly but they are used in almost every issue. They dont just flesh out minor details but often significant development happens in them and if you skip, then you'd be lost. I admit that I scan and pass them alot. They were fine in HOX/POX to establish quick world building but they shouldnt be used as a crutch to tell stories.

Indeed. In HOX/POX they worked well as part of the pace and overall structure of the story as this retelling of an alternate history and give a sense of depth to what is going on in the short time the issues had. Not to forget adding a sense of mystery in how the reader is left guessing as to who compiled these information, how they accessed them and who was supposed to read them (with the Librarian in X3 being set up as the seeming candidate before his role is further revealed).

But with their subsequent usage it looked like they simply encouraged writers to become lazy and overstayed their welcome.

Oh I dont agree with that. i think Synch has been handled well and feels very much like an extension of the Synch we had in Gen X. He doesnt feel like a completely different character. i think it helps bc he was a very generic character. He was never dynamic nor had a particular interesting personality that stood out compared to the rest of his cast

Thanks for the counter perspective.

[lefthanded]

One of the worst things the Krakoa era did, which I hope goes away is the data pages. They would have been fine if used sparingly but they are used in almost every issue. They dont just flesh out minor details but often significant development happens in them and if you skip, then you'd be lost. I admit that I scan and pass them alot. They were fine in HOX/POX to establish quick world building but they shouldnt be used as a crutch to tell stories

Good point. With Hickman's data pages, you could ignore the data pages and still follow the main story and character developments. Datapages where inessential but nice additional bits of knowledge.
Since then, Datapages have become essential to the main story and character developments. Ben Urich has a friken whole data page to himself describing human-mutant relations in X-men #1, that instead could have been used to show Ben interacting with mutants.

[Triniking1234]

unpopular opinion: I think they went to far with Synch powers. He used to be able to copy powers of mutants near. Now he has basically the powerset of all mutants. He used Karma and Jean that wasn´t even around.

Jean isn't even in the same plane of existence. This is just more Rachel erasure.

Kamala had previously gone to Peter so he could tell her how she died. She told him she was now with the X-Men. Peter presumably went to Norman with a good news and bad news thing. The good news is, the X-men resurrected her. The bad news is, she joined the team, so she isn't coming back to Oscorp. Peter and Norman also both found out Kamala's secret identity as she unmasked while dying. She found out Peter's at the same time but forgot, but he let her in on the secret as part of the death explanation. Kamala found the Gold Goblin suit, so she knew about Norman being a superhero too (she knew about his old Green Goblin supervillain identity before she joined Oscorp, she worked there to spy on him, not knowing Spider-Man was already there). That'll be why Norman is helping the X-Men, he wants to help his former intern - and prove to her that he's a hero now, not a villain.

Man, Norman knowing Kamala is Ms. Marvel shouldn't give a free buddy pass for the X-Men. He doesn't even need to be here. Where's someone like Luke Cage if they're plotting to kick out Orchis?

[Havok83]

Jean isn't even in the same plane of existence. This is just more Rachel erasure.



Man, Norman knowing Kamala is Ms. Marvel shouldn't give a free buddy pass for the X-Men. He doesn't even need to be here. Where's someone like Luke Cage if they're plotting to kick out Orchis?

Is it? Synch was Jean's teammate and she worked closely with him for a couple of years, training and helping him develop skills with her TP. He hasnt really been around Rachel much especially since she herself hasnt been on Krakoa much being out in the UK and Otherworld. Were he to reference that he had her TP here, it would have felt out of place. Even if he wasnt using Jean's TP, it would make more sense for it to be Emma's considering he is working with her and not Rachel

[Triniking1234]

Is it? Synch was Jean's teammate and she worked closely with him for a couple of years, training and helping him develop skills with her TP. He hasnt really been around Rachel much especially since she herself hasnt been on Krakoa much being out in the UK and Otherworld. Were he to reference that he had her TP here, it would have felt out of place.

That just proves the other user correct that Duggan just has Synch recall any powers he used before instead of the original "have to be nearby" clause. Even Ewing held himself back when he had Synch beat up Venom.

[Havok83]

That just proves the other user correct that Duggan just has Synch recall any powers he used before instead of the original "have to be nearby" clause. Even Ewing held himself back when he had Synch beat up Venom.

Was there something to prove? This is something that Duggan established like over a year ago. Jean's TP is more powerful so it fits especially given the feat he did here and he got specialized 1:1 training with her

[Shortpack!]

Talon really got the short end of the stick.

She has barely been around and barely done anything and she gets killed. Sure, we know she is the OG Laura, but still... No character arc of her own. Not even a "This is what happened while I was in the Vault after I helped Ev escape... This is why they kept me around..." The closest is "I don't wanna be friends with NuLaura."

She truly was a Woman in the Refrigerator.

By fridging her, they essentially proved everything the Laura fans were saying after the reveal of the Ev/Talon romance.

I say this AS an Ev fan.

[davetvs]

My only issue with the data pages are that they overuse Character X Writing a Memo to Character Y. Otherwise they can be interesting, contribute to world-building, flesh concepts out, etc.