Proudstar brothers Appreciation thread 2024

[Technopriest]

I recall there was also a moment where they were moving away from both the "Warpath" and "Thunderbird" names and were edging towards calling Jimmy "Pridewalker" but that never came to fruition.

I think that Philip Tan design from "Rise and Fall of the Shi'Ar Empire" is my favorite for James as well.


Though the choker and chaps look by Pollina X-FORCE holds a special place...

I think both brothers need to be moved away from the Thunderbird motif, it is offensive considering it has nothing to do with the Apache or the area where they are from.
That is actually my favorite look for Jimmy, it is still recognizable as a Warpath costume while giving him his own identity, as he actually wore those colors longer than Thunderbird.
For John though, I prefer the current look better. In fact I would have gone further and dropped the whole Thunderbird motif.

[Factor]

What should be John's codename if he drops Thunderbird?

[Thirteen]

What should be John's codename if he drops Thunderbird?

I will add: Is "Warpath" inappropriate along the lines of "Scalphunter", which was dropped?

[Technopriest]

What should be John's codename if he drops Thunderbird?

Scout, given his powers.

[Technopriest]

I will add: Is "Warpath" inappropriate along the lines of "Scalphunter", which was dropped?

The issue with that type of name is that it is, just like The Thunderbird name and motif, more what a non-native person would use for a Native American than something that NA would pick themselves. The Warpath word Is not offensive in itself among NA but can be used offensively by someone from the outside. The Warpath was literally a path that NA tribes would take on their way to battle, so it's just silly as a name anyways.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

What should be John's codename if he drops Thunderbird?

I kinda like pridewalker but I'm not sure it's something John would name himself. I feel like John not having a superhero name is fine.

He feels too outspoken for one. Having him being a public hero feels fitting.

[Technopriest]

I kinda like pridewalker but I'm not sure it's something John would name himself. I feel like John not having a superhero name is fine.

He feels too outspoken for one. Having him being a public hero feels fitting.

Yeah, I mostly agree with that. I do feel that Scout would work given that is a real specialty in the Marine Corps and given his powers it would work with him (Gabby can go back to Honey Badger, which fits her better anyway).

[Thirteen]

The issue with that type of name is that it is, just like The Thunderbird name and motif, more what a non-native person would use for a Native American than something that NA would pick themselves. The Warpath word Is not offensive in itself among NA but can be used offensively by someone from the outside. The Warpath was literally a path that NA tribes would take on their way to battle, so it's just silly as a name anyways.

Most superhero names have a silliness to them if examined through too serious or literal a lens. What's a Psylocke? Shatterstar? Boom Boom? Tigra the Were-Woman etc. Very often it's a vaguely descriptive that sounds "cool". I think Warpath stands head and shoulders above most.
With regard to cultural correction, unlike adjusting Sunspot's name to Beto from 'Berto, Karma's from X'ian Coy to Xuân Cao in the New Mutants, if you take away Thunderbird and don't find something as strong (stronger would be better) to replace it with, you run the risk of divorcing the character from fans visceral connection. Betsy Braddock's fumbling journey to Captain Britain, a mantle she had previously held, is a cautionary tale in that regard. For many I think Daken will always be Daken, despite the name's translation.

That being said, and in spite of my sig, I can see John Proudstar shirking a superhero name and staying street level and saying "My name is enough". Like his rival X-Man being as much Logan as Wolverine. It fits his saccharine personality, especially in light of his being dead and decidedly anti-establishment. The Thunderbird motif that remains I can see easily explained away as "My brother wore this symbol on his body in tribute to me in death. Now I wear it for him in life." And move forward avoiding the need for a sweeping erasure of history in this case.


(I'm suddenly reminded that Ann early plan considered for Kitty Pryde was that she would take on the name Thunderbird, with it being just a name of former Xaviers student divorcing it from the native connection. I'll have to piece together something about that later...TBC...)

[Uncanny X-Man]

I enjoyed how the Steves Orlando and Foxe wrote the Proudstar bros on X-Men Unlimited recently and also how they tried differentiating them in looks, approach and speech pattern. I would definitely love to read more from them.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Yeah, I mostly agree with that. I do feel that Scout would work given that is a real specialty in the Marine Corps and given his powers it would work with him (Gabby can go back to Honey Badger, which fits her better anyway.

Scout works for me.

[Technopriest]

Most superhero names have a silliness to them if examined through too serious or literal a lens. What's a Psylocke? Shatterstar? Boom Boom? Tigra the Were-Woman etc. Very often it's a vaguely descriptive that sounds "cool". I think Warpath stands head and shoulders above most.
With regard to cultural correction, unlike adjusting Sunspot's name to Beto from 'Berto, Karma's from X'ian Coy to Xuân Cao in the New Mutants, if you take away Thunderbird and don't find something as strong (stronger would be better) to replace it with, you run the risk of divorcing the character from fans visceral connection. Betsy Braddock's fumbling journey to Captain Britain, a mantle she had previously held, is a cautionary tale in that regard. For many I think Daken will always be Daken, despite the name's translation.

That being said, and in spite of my sig, I can see John Proudstar shirking a superhero name and staying street level and saying "My name is enough". Like his rival X-Man being as much Logan as Wolverine. It fits his saccharine personality, especially in light of his being dead and decidedly anti-establishment. The Thunderbird motif that remains I can see easily explained away as "My brother wore this symbol on his body in tribute to me in death. Now I wear it for him in life." And move forward avoiding the need for a sweeping erasure of history in this case.


(I'm suddenly reminded that Ann early plan considered for Kitty Pryde was that she would take on the name Thunderbird, with it being just a name of former Xaviers student divorcing it from the native connection. I'll have to piece together something about that later...TBC...)

Yes, superhero names have an inherent sillyness to them because superheroes themselves can be silly if analyzed too closely. Yet all of the other names mentioned try to connect to their characters and powers instead of being vaguely (wrongly) relevant to their culture. With NA especially it has always been a trend to try to make them ethnic (I think Forge might be the only one that escaped that). So yeah, they have established names but the reality is that they are not names that a NA person would pick IRL (and yes, this is not RL). Should they be changed? Hard to say at this point. Warpath is a holdover of the "extreme" early 90s era in comics, where I imagine someone (Liefeld?) though "oh, native American, what would sound kewl, Warpath". It is less offensive than Thunderbird though, that is more akin of having a Pakistani character named after an Indian deity.
My choice, let John go by his real name, it makes sense in universe and still sounds cool (not that Proudstar is a particular Apache name either).

[Micabe]

Most superhero names have a silliness to them if examined through too serious or literal a lens. What's a Psylocke? Shatterstar? Boom Boom? Tigra the Were-Woman etc. Very often it's a vaguely descriptive that sounds "cool". I think Warpath stands head and shoulders above most.
With regard to cultural correction, unlike adjusting Sunspot's name to Beto from 'Berto, Karma's from X'ian Coy to Xuân Cao in the New Mutants, if you take away Thunderbird and don't find something as strong (stronger would be better) to replace it with, you run the risk of divorcing the character from fans visceral connection. Betsy Braddock's fumbling journey to Captain Britain, a mantle she had previously held, is a cautionary tale in that regard. For many I think Daken will always be Daken, despite the name's translation.

That being said, and in spite of my sig, I can see John Proudstar shirking a superhero name and staying street level and saying "My name is enough". Like his rival X-Man being as much Logan as Wolverine. It fits his saccharine personality, especially in light of his being dead and decidedly anti-establishment. The Thunderbird motif that remains I can see easily explained away as "My brother wore this symbol on his body in tribute to me in death. Now I wear it for him in life." And move forward avoiding the need for a sweeping erasure of history in this case.


(I'm suddenly reminded that Ann early plan considered for Kitty Pryde was that she would take on the name Thunderbird, with it being just a name of former Xaviers student divorcing it from the native connection. I'll have to piece together something about that later...TBC...)

Might I ask what book those pages are from?

[Technopriest]

I wonder if John is going to get another costume or just go shirtless for the remainder of Unlimited.

[taozen]

I recall there was also a moment where they were moving away from both the "Warpath" and "Thunderbird" names and were edging towards calling Jimmy "Pridewalker" but that never came to fruition.

I think that Philip Tan design from "Rise and Fall of the Shi'Ar Empire" is my favorite for James as well.


Though the choker and chaps look by Pollina X-FORCE holds a special place...

I liked the blue and red costume design. I am a big fan of Jimmy and with his power set, I wish X-writers would use him in more stories. With his strength, speed, durability and agility; he is one of the most dangerous powerhouses in the Marvel Universe. And he is a very skilled combatant. He is so underutilized!!

[taozen]

Thunderbird's, John Proadstar's" powers from the old Official Handbook of Marvel Universe:

On top of being a skilled hunter, tracker, and fighter (in both hand-to-hand and small arms combat), Thunderbird’s muscle tissue is three times as dense as that of a normal human’s, distributed in such a way as to give him massive shoulders, arms, and thighs.

Thunderbird can exert himself at peak capacity for several hours before fatigue begins to affect him. His skin is also extremely dense, including an additional layer of leathery epidermis, affording him heightened injury resistance. In addition, his lungs are oversized and his respiratory system is superhumanly efficient, allowing him to hold his breath for extended periods.

I remember reading that John would never get tired during the danger room sessions. I still do not think they have really officially established how strong or fast he is. I would have him have faster reflexes and speed than Jimmy. Give Jimmy the power and give John the speed advantage.