New Universe

[Hypestyle]

I liked Nightmask. I wished it would come back in the main universe, just transport the characters there, or start over, same concept.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Maybe, but it would be a less selling brand. No way Marvel was going to bet on that.

G.O.D.S main appeal was Hickman so recruiting him to reboot it felt practical to me. You could use it as the new Ultimates and stagger a launch like what they are trying to do with 6160's titles.

But you're probably right about the sales part.

I just feel the current 6160 lacks something so I would've used the Twilight Court or New Universe to give it a stronger hook beyond what it has now.

Oh well. This thread did give me incentive to go check out the original new universe.

[Zauriel]

I read a few New Universe titles and issues. Most of it did not appeal to me. Starbrand and Nightmask were okay at first, but I lost interest later on.

[Thor-Ul]

G.O.D.S main appeal was Hickman so recruiting him to reboot it felt practical to me. You could use it as the new Ultimates and stagger a launch like what they are trying to do with 6160's titles.

But you're probably right about the sales part.

I just feel the current 6160 lacks something so I would've used the Twilight Court or New Universe to give it a stronger hook beyond what it has now.

Oh well. This thread did give me incentive to go check out the original new universe.

I guess a potent writer name, a high selling artist and a good publicity push up could work, but after the initial push? Dunno. Newuniversal did it but it felt more like a big conspiracy story by Ellis than a return to the New Universe.

I read a few New Universe titles and issues. Most of it did not appeal to me. Starbrand and Nightmask were okay at first, but I lost interest later on.

The point is the New Universe was less focus on the classic formula of hero vs villian and more on "real world" issues. But maybe the wa to put it in th epage wasn't the best way to handle. I remember reading Starbrand and was like of boring on how some issues seemed to spend to much time on Connell repairing a cycle or car.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I guess a potent writer name, a high selling artist and a good publicity push up could work, but after the initial push? Dunno. Newuniversal did it but it felt more like a big conspiracy story by Ellis than a return to the New Universe.

I guess the New Universe was a product of its day like the wildstorm characters.

[Thor-Ul]

I guess the New Universe was a product of its day like the wildstorm characters.

Every character is product of its time. It is how they keep with the changes they stay. Sometimes a character potentially forgoten is renovated. Would do you had said in the early 90s than Carol Danvers would be Captain Marvel?

[Zero Hunter]

I did love in the original Exiles title where they were chasing Proteus through some of the major Alt universes (New Universe, 2099, House of M, Future Imperfect, and the Squadron Supreme universe). So much crazyness went on they ended up created more alternate futures of those worlds.

[Thor-Ul]

I did love in the original Exiles title where they were chasing Proteus through some of the major Alt universes (New Universe, 2099, House of M, Future Imperfect, and the Squadron Supreme universe). So much crazyness went on they ended up created more alternate futures of those worlds.

And it was in the Exiles title, precisely. There is certain irony on that.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Every character is product of its time. It is how they keep with the changes they stay. Sometimes a character potentially forgoten is renovated. Would do you had said in the early 90s than Carol Danvers would be Captain Marvel?

I meant it couldn't adapt as easily as other franchises then.

[Thor-Ul]

I meant it couldn't adapt as easily as other franchises then.

Adapt to what, to other media? Or to uppdate to present narratives? It is not imposible and in fact, I think the New Universe would be easly and cheaper to adapt to make live-action series. The core of the new universe was to make it everything like happening in the real world, without the spectacularity nor histrionism of the mainstream Marvel comics: no big battles to see, no outlandish costumes, no overabundance of aliens and gods, most of this events are unknown to the public... There was its strengh and its doom.
(Yeah, well we know Byrne just defenestrated everything as revenge against Shooter after he left Marvel, but that is another story).

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Adapt to what, to other media? Or to uppdate to present narratives? It is not imposible and in fact, I think the New Universe would be easly and cheaper to adapt to make live-action series. The core of the new universe was to make it everything like happening in the real world, without the spectacularity nor histrionism of the mainstream Marvel comics: no big battles to see, no outlandish costumes, no overabundance of aliens and gods, most of this events are unknown to the public... There was its strengh and its doom.
(Yeah, well we know Byrne just defenestrated everything as revenge against Shooter after he left Marvel, but that is another story).

It would be cool to see a movie version with Duncan Jones or Denis Villevue at the helm. If Chris Nolan was interested in doing a superhero film again, he'd work too.

[Thor-Ul]

It would be cool to see a movie version with Duncan Jones or Denis Villevue at the helm. If Chris Nolan was interested in doing a superhero film again, he'd work too.

Could be. You know, in the past I believed than the movie Unbreakable and the series Heroes (the first season at least) were really close to what the early New Universe tried to do. But I don't know if that kind of narrative could work again in the big screen.

[James Cameron]

Well I took a bit of a break but after catching up on a few issues from the different series, my thoughts are mostly still the same.

Sorry to all the Justice fans, but you might need to take the rose-colored glasses off, Justice may be the worst and most offensive in the entire line. The whole point of the character is fundamentally flawed, and I hate anything that tries to tell me a character is cool and good-natured when the story itself directly contradicts that. Justice is a psychopath, and a self righteous idiot. Because the story does not agree with that fact, it suffers. And the dialogue is just garbage. We don't see enough of the most interesting stuff, the world where Justice comes from. I'm going to stick with it because it feels important to the overall narrative of the New Universe and the origin of the white event (nobody answered me if the white event was the same from SWII. Is it??)

My favorites are Nightmask, Psi-Force, and Star Brand. I still think Ken is a douche, but it's pretty clear just from the first few issues that Shooter is using the series to set up some big things, and that has me curious enough to stick with it. I like Spitfire as a character, but she is in the wrong damn book. Get all those kids out of there and give me solo adventures!

I gave up on Kickers inc after issue 3 or so. It's not even that it's bad, it's just mundane, I dislike all the characters and the concept gets stale by the 2nd issue. If anyone has a reason for
me to continue reading it, let me know.0

Given the way most of these books are written I'm pretty nervous to start Merc. Is it worth it or skippable? If it's anything like Justice, I might have to pass.

DP7 reads pretty slow and it's really not that different from Psi-Force except that the leads are adults and not teenagers. I had a hard time getting through it because it's just not that interesting. But enough cool stuff has been set up in the first couple issues that I will stick with it.

I'm still early in but the failings of the New Universe seem fairly evident to me. Out of all these books, less than 5 are readable, and only 1 or 2 should be considered "good." I don't know what was going on with Shooter's quality control on these books, but none of them capture the greatness of 80s Marvel, they are mostly hokey and bad and painfully generic. If the line were reduced to a handful of books, maybe it could have been more successful. There are lots of great seeds planted here, if it had been launched in the late 80s closer to the vertigo era we might have seen better quality and more longevity. Some books deal with heavy and mature topics and portray a grounded look at superheroes, exploring some imaginative and creative themes as well. Who knows.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Could be. You know, in the past I believed than the movie Unbreakable and the series Heroes (the first season at least) were really close to what the early New Universe tried to do. But I don't know if that kind of narrative could work again in the big screen.

I guess it depends on who adapts New Universe and what the film industry is like when it gets made.

[Thor-Ul]

Well I took a bit of a break but after catching up on a few issues from the different series, my thoughts are mostly still the same.

Sorry to all the Justice fans, but you might need to take the rose-colored glasses off, Justice may be the worst and most offensive in the entire line. The whole point of the character is fundamentally flawed, and I hate anything that tries to tell me a character is cool and good-natured when the story itself directly contradicts that. Justice is a psychopath, and a self righteous idiot. Because the story does not agree with that fact, it suffers. And the dialogue is just garbage. We don't see enough of the most interesting stuff, the world where Justice comes from. I'm going to stick with it because it feels important to the overall narrative of the New Universe and the origin of the white event (nobody answered me if the white event was the same from SWII. Is it??)

I remember I dropped that early, so I never get to deep with the character. I have to say I liked more the reinvention than later Ellis made, more like a delusional villian who believes himself in a holy crusade. if they play con that ambigous context (is he really from other place or is he just mad?) could had been a better book I suppose.

My favorites are Nightmask, Psi-Force, and Star Brand. I still think Ken is a douche, but it's pretty clear just from the first few issues that Shooter is using the series to set up some big things, and that has me curious enough to stick with it. I like Spitfire as a character, but she is in the wrong damn book. Get all those kids out of there and give me solo adventures!

I think these were the books than Shooter overlooked the most. Or at least it have more compromised authors.

I gave up on Kickers inc after issue 3 or so. It's not even that it's bad, it's just mundane, I dislike all the characters and the concept gets stale by the 2nd issue. If anyone has a reason for
me to continue reading it, let me know.0

I guess the writers went to far with the "the world outside your window" concept there.

Given the way most of these books are written I'm pretty nervous to start Merc. Is it worth it or skippable? If it's anything like Justice, I might have to pass.

I have to confess I don't even remember this one. Can't say if it was good or not.

DP7 reads pretty slow and it's really not that different from Psi-Force except that the leads are adults and not teenagers. I had a hard time getting through it because it's just not that interesting. But enough cool stuff has been set up in the first couple issues that I will stick with it.

Nah, this wasn't for me.

I'm still early in but the failings of the New Universe seem fairly evident to me. Out of all these books, less than 5 are readable, and only 1 or 2 should be considered "good." I don't know what was going on with Shooter's quality control on these books, but none of them capture the greatness of 80s Marvel, they are mostly hokey and bad and painfully generic. If the line were reduced to a handful of books, maybe it could have been more successful. There are lots of great seeds planted here, if it had been launched in the late 80s closer to the vertigo era we might have seen better quality and more longevity. Some books deal with heavy and mature topics and portray a grounded look at superheroes, exploring some imaginative and creative themes as well. Who knows.

It is probably than the new universe indeed started in a bad moment. But also we must remember than it was a very personal project of Shooter, a Shooter who at that moment didn't have a big support among the creatives at Marvel and the big ones, if don't had moved to DC, didn't wanted to work on those books. A lot of circunstances conspired against the New Universe and as a whole, the initiative was a failure. Maybe, indeed in later date, and with a different focus, could have had a better chance.