Kingpin vs Reacher

[MichaelC]

TV Kingpin vs TV Reacher

Unarmed fight. No guns, no knives, no body-armor.

[Captain Smith]

Firearms allowed. Reacher does buy or steal them when facing a big fight? How's Kingpin on being shot up.

[Sharpandpointies]

I can't speak to Fisk after the original Netflix TV series.

However, Fisk as of that point is a very strong guy with some brawling skill who effectively wears bullet-proof armor (his suit). Reacher has been shown to pull off headshots at 40' or so under pressure. They start at 100'. Reacher tends to have a gun.

I would say this is Reacher's fight to lose. I'm not at all sold that Fisk could win a hand to hand fight anyway, but here he needs to run forward somehow protecting his head with his forearms or the like, not take any serious injury from Reacher shooting him before arriving, then fighting Reacher while Reacher STILL has a pistol. And a knife.

I don't know, maybe Disney Kingpin has better feats.

[MichaelC]

Unarmed fight. No guns, no knifes, no body-armor.

[Beadle]

I can't speak to Fisk after the original Netflix TV series.

However, Fisk as of that point is a very strong guy with some brawling skill who effectively wears bullet-proof armor (his suit). Reacher has been shown to pull off headshots at 40' or so under pressure. They start at 100'. Reacher tends to have a gun.

I would say this is Reacher's fight to lose. I'm not at all sold that Fisk could win a hand to hand fight anyway, but here he needs to run forward somehow protecting his head with his forearms or the like, not take any serious injury from Reacher shooting him before arriving, then fighting Reacher while Reacher STILL has a pistol. And a knife.

I don't know, maybe Disney Kingpin has better feats.

Disney Kingpin is veering into superhuman.

IIRC he was fighting both Hawkeyes at the same time. Possibly Yelena as well… I forget.

spoilers:

And he was shot in the eye by Echo at point blank range at the end of Hawkeye. He got better.

end of spoilers

[Sharpandpointies]

Disney Kingpin is veering into superhuman.

IIRC he was fighting both Hawkeyes at the same time. Possibly Yelena as well… I forget.

spoilers:

And he was shot in the eye by Echo at point blank range at the end of Hawkeye. He got better.

end of spoilers

Oh, good stuff then. ^_^

Fisk deserves to be a scary.

[Iron_Twister]

I think he only fought Kate Bishop...Though it was less a fight and more like annoyingly tossing her around like a rag because she kept getting in his way. But yeah, he's stupidly strong compared to Netflix. Ripped a car door off its hinges with ease, tanked getting hit by a car that sends him flying through a store window only get up like that was an inconvenience, again tossing a young woman around with barely any effort, then it took an exploding arrow at close range to knock him out...Note I said knocked him out.

Like damn.

[choptop]

Didn't kingpin get hit by a car and get back up?

[Captain Smith]

Reacher is pretty strong and good damage soak. In the last episodes, he held on with one hand to stretcher carrying someone with one hand that was dangling out of a helicopter with one hand that was in the wind stream of the moving helicopter. He also head butted quite a few guys in a row, knocking them down, not knocking himself and showing no noticeable effects. I walked into the microwave door and that does me in. Reacher kicked a car moving towards him (not that fast though) and triggered the air bags.

Maybe Kingpin is stronger. They should wear sumo gear. This might devolve to which guy sticks his fingers in the other guy's eyes first. NO reason to just throw haymakers and body punches. Or a groin kick - yeah, that's a TV movie move though.

Body armor is neat, depends on the level - while vests exist that resist rifle rounds, never heard of pants that do that. So if Reacher did have an AR (just talking), he could shoot out Kingpins lower body fairly easily, given his abilities aren't block by PiS (as in some of his gunfights). Modern rounds would just blow flesh legs to shreds, bleed out, bone smash, etc. I know there are no guns here, just pointing out how heroes and villains who are not super, are saved by Imperial Storm Trooper Fire Arms Training. Anyway, Kingpin has a big head, and modern training does take that into account if you look at competition and training targets.

[Sharpandpointies]

The issue is that Kingpin's entire suit was shown to be bullet-proof, on a pretty much comic book level. We're back to head shots; I think Reacher is fine for those, whether or not they happen before Fisk arrives or during the ensuing fight. Holding a pistol going into a hand to hand fight isn't an auto-win (especially when the other guy has bullet-proof clothing), but it's a pretty huge advantage.

As an aside, head butts are doable in real life, multiple times even, and manage this without hurting their user through technique and targeting. They're a valid strike, and one doesn't want to use something that's going to cause equal damage to oneself. This is not to say that Reacher isn't very tough - the crowbar/pool scene is a better indication of his toughness - but to note that him being capable of headbutting people a few times is not an indication of that.