Who is "Traitor X?"

[sunofdarkchild]

Rasputin won't be the traitor, much as I wish she would be. To me, Rasputin is a 1-off novelty character whose novelty ran out 4 years ago and it was a huge mistake to bring her into the main continuity, so I'd welcome anything that removes her from the line. But the point of having the traitor is that it's supposed to be someone shocking who people would have some sort of emotional reaction to, and no one would care at all if it was Rasputin.

[Rev9]

Rasputin won't be the traitor, much as I wish she would be. To me, Rasputin is a 1-off novelty character whose novelty ran out 4 years ago and it was a huge mistake to bring her into the main continuity, so I'd welcome anything that removes her from the line. But the point of having the traitor is that it's supposed to be someone shocking who people would have some sort of emotional reaction to, and no one would care at all if it was Rasputin.

I agree completely, but I think to a degree treachery could also blight a character if it is someone that is cared about or fans have sentimental attachment to or if it comes across as very counterintuitive.Rasputin is perfect in this regard because she is a novel character, a time displaced character and so if she is never brought up after the treachery, it's something more palatable. Up to this point we have people hoping that we have the story somehow undo Moira's treachery for this very reason. I suspect it won't sit too well with fans if it is revealed to be someone as pivotal as Xavier for example. In fact to go to the lengths Xavier has to be revealed as a traitor doesn't make sense to me in the true sense of the word. Then again from our pov it is hard to say what the treachery is because it all depends on the aftermath in mind. Is it erasing Krakoa as a reality?(a hard re-set) or changing reality but only partially-precisely as a consequence of the treachery-a soft re-set. We just can't know what Gillen has in store, but he is set on a character being blamed going forward either way. Though from the viewpoint of the story having profound impact ,a pivotal character be a traitor fits.I just think Krakoan age has been replete with instances where you'd think there would be serious repercussions for certain narrative choices, but they turn out hollow. So I think Rasputin being a traitor is an easy choice in keeping with Krakoan era hand waving. We'll have to wait and see what gravitas the word carries in retrospect.

[Rnap22]

I would hate for it to be Doug, but it’s a strong possibility. His bond with Warlock and them “infecting” Krakoa with the techno-organic virus so they can be privy to information. It could be Doug looking out for mutants originally since he was only the interpreter for Krakoa in the beginning. He was basically involved in the majority of the Giant Sized issues. The orb at the end when they saved Storm. The Sidri at the mansion. He was still hiding Warlock at the time and it was a secret. Did he ever really tell Magik why? Did we ever learn why? He was a player in XoS as a sword bearer. It definitely sets him up of course especially with letting Moria go and with the arm he gave her… but was that so he could find out more info? Is all this set up for him destroy Orchis or be a traitor?

If he, Warlock and Krakoa knew everything that was happening, he may actually have had access to what Destiny knew if she spoke it out loud or could read her diaries. He may have had to let things play out this way in order to defeat Orchis. Krakoa saved and hid Doug for a reason and not just to keep him safe like that.

So maybe the real traitor is Destiny since she let a lot of this stuff come to fruition when she could have spoke out

[Micabe]

If one is going to argue that Irene is a possible traitor then one should not dismiss it out of hand Raven's traitorous act of circumventing the "no precogs" rule by posing as Xavier and Magneto and tricking Hope into resurrecting Irene through absolute deception. Sure, Irene understood that bodies were about to hit the floor, but she only warned Raven and Raven wanted to gather Anna Marie first but Irene insisted they both bounce without telling anyone, especially Kurt, about the imminent threat looming.

By the way... X-Men: Blue Origins notwithstanding logically, how did Irene share carrying Kurt with Raven when it was Raven who did all of the pushing and sweating when all was said and done? Did Irene carry him for 4.5 months and Raven for the final 4.5 months? I mean surely the doctor doing the delivery had to see Kurt exit the birth canal as he exclaimed he was blue as well as Raven.

[Micabe]

Amazing isn't it? Both Irene and Raven had the same doctor when they independently gave birth to Kurt.

[Rnap22]

Amazing isn't it? Both Irene and Raven had the same doctor when they independently gave birth to Kurt.

The new version of the story is the true birth of Nightcrawler. Irene was the one to carry Kurt.

[Micabe]

The new version of the story is the true birth of Nightcrawler. Irene was the one to carry Kurt.

So, are you implying that Raven can now, with a touch physically mimic the likeness, DNA, and powers of any being, in essence, becoming them on a genetic level (I.e., Leech) be they male or female with impunity if she so chooses to?

Raven Darkhölme
X-Men Blue: Origins #1(2023)

[Rnap22]

So, you believe that Raven can now physically mimic the DNA of any being only as long as she uses it to impregnate women or are you implying that Raven can physically mimic the DNA and powers of any being (I.e., Leech) with impunity if she so choses to?

I don’t understand what’s funny or what exactly you’re asking. If you read the story she says she can change her rna and everything genetically. She used Azazel as an imprint and Irene carried their baby (Kurt). She grew the “baby bump” for appearance in town. She killed her husband and masqueraded as both him and her pregnant self. Irene gave birth to Kurt and Raven was the one to take him. It’s all in X-men Blue.

You don’t have to subscribe to the idea, but as of now that’s the origin story of Nightcrawler. Read the book.

[Micabe]

If I didn't read the book I wouldn't be discussing it at length with you. And no, it's not the original origin of Kurt it's retroactive continuity there's a difference.

[Exodus]

If I didn't read the book I wouldn't be discussing it at length with you. And no, it's not the original origin of Kurt it's retroactive continuity there's a difference.

no, it is not. It is Kurt's origin. In the past we only saw fragments of this history and now the author has told us the full story. Unpacking all of it that has been presented only as a reduced fragment in the past. It is also something Claremont has intended to tell anyhow and had to leave out.

Mystique and Destiny are Nightcrawler's parents. Such an important story!

[Micabe]

no, it is not. It is Kurt's origin. In the past we only saw fragments of this history and now the author has told us the full story. Unpacking all of it that has been presented only as a reduced fragment in the past. It is also something Claremont has intended to tell anyhow and had to leave out.

Hmm... So, the relevant pages I posted of Raven giving birth with doctors, nurses, and servants milling about while dialoguing with one another are fragments that hold no meaning but, the page(s) I posted from an entirely different book (I.e., the retcon) depicting Raven watching the same doctor assisting Irene to give birth in a similar setting is the full story? Okay, got it.

Mystique and Destiny are Nightcrawler's parents. Such an important story!

No more important than any other IMHO but, as I stated in my previous post if Raven has that type of control of her genetic makeup she should also be able to procure for herself any powers she wants merely by touching someone in the same manner as Anna Marie... I'm just saying.

[DurararaFTW]

Hmm... So, the relevant pages I posted of Raven giving birth with doctors, nurses, and servants milling about while dialoguing with one another are fragments that hold no meaning but, the page(s) I posted from an entirely different book (I.e., the retcon) depicting Raven watching the same doctor assisting Irene to give birth in a similar setting is the full story? Okay, got it.



No more important than any other IMHO but, as I stated in my previous post if Raven has that type of control of her genetic makeup she should also be able to procure for herself any powers she wants merely by touching someone in the same manner as Anna Marie... I'm just saying.

She should really be added to the list of Omega Mutants if her manipulation of her own genetic makeup is proven to be that limitless.

[Micabe]

She should really be added to the list of Omega Mutants if her manipulation of her own genetic makeup is proven to be that limitless.

[Triniking1234]

Raven turned into her boyfriend and impregnated her girlfriend?

Lord have mercy.

no, it is not. It is Kurt's origin. In the past we only saw fragments of this history and now the author has told us the full story. Unpacking all of it that has been presented only as a reduced fragment in the past. It is also something Claremont has intended to tell anyhow and had to leave out.

Mystique and Destiny are Nightcrawler's parents. Such an important story!

What do you think the term "retroactive continuity" means?

[DurararaFTW]

Raven turned into her boyfriend and impregnated her girlfriend?

Lord have mercy.



What do you think the term "retroactive continuity" means?

Azazel's still red and Nightcrawler is blue because Mystique's blue. It's not as simple as Mystique turned into Azazel and slept with Destiny, Nightcrawler is just a fully designer mutant on the level with Rasputin that Mystique can create naturally with her mutation.