Dead X-Men #1 - Spoilers/Review

[Mutant X]

I liked the issue. I thought it was fun and had a cast I like. I'm very glad the slaughtered Gala X-Men are getting a chance to be a team. What brings it down for me is the implication that they've completely altered how Moira's powers work in order to tell it. As explained in HoX/PoX, there are no alternate realities involved. It's all 616. The reason those past lives are gone is because Moira makes different choices after being sent back in time, which means they never happen. They don't exist out in the multiverse somewhere, they're just gone. The same applies to the Moira Engine timelines. I really wish they had spent a little time explaining how returning to those erased timelines is even possible rather than just ignoring it. IMO it smacks of laziness.

Also, it's disappointing to me that we didn't see Xavier's reaction to finding out that all the mutants are still alive in the WHR. Maybe we'll see it in X-Men Forever, but for now it's weird to me that we skipped over it. Plus, how were they resurrected? Mother Righteous was using the Waiting Room, but Resurrection of Magneto showed that the Waiting Room is empty. Were these five the only ones out of millions to stay with Tarn and hope to be resurrected? And with the end of Immortal, Mother Righteous is no longer trusted anyway.

Like I said, I enjoyed the actual issue and the story/action, but the bigger questions are really nagging at me.

You're right.
Hickman was very emphatic in how HoX and PoX were not about alternative realities or time travels.
He settled Moira's powers in a way we wouldn't need to handle with these concepts he believed were already confusing and repetitive in the X-men chronology for readers.

But he opened up a window for others to explore alternative realities with Omega Sentinel's origins revelation in Inferno.

[Starfish]

Now I really want to read about Mercury going on a space adventure.

[Havok83]

I agree that, while I enjoye her character, Frenzy's "redemption" hasn't been "earned". Her arc in Legacy a'd her recent Unlimited story fleshed her out but I' agree it's a bit too easy.
I think Emma and Exodus's inclusion on the "heroes" side is more organic and interesting. Exodus is still VERY morally grey. Same for Mystique and Destiny.

I definitely dont consider Exodus a hero. He's just no longer an X-Men antagonist. He hasnt changed; those around him have

[DarkMagnus]

I dont consider Exodus a Hero. but he is not a villian either.

Mystique and Destiny are MOAR moraly grey than anyone thye literaly work for themselves. but with preference to Mutankind

[HomoSuperior]

This was better than expected.
Odd there's no explanation of how the team was resurrected.
Prodigy accumulating all that knowledge seems less like a hunt for Moira and more like Xavier's mutant play for Dominion; with real potential for unintended consequences.
Still out there: the X-books were setting up some sort of gravity mutant circuit with Harry Leland and maybe Forge.

[yogaflame]

This disappointed me, sadly. Yet another alt-timeline/reality-skipping adventure... I'm pretty bored of those now.

So this Moira who, aside from having the mutant ability to resurrect (like all of them), has all the physical attributes of a baseline human was able to kill Omega Red. Mmmkay. And she's also twirling her moustache, just like 616 Moira decided to start randomly doing? It's not for me, sorry.

I'm ready for the Krakoan Era to end now. It's at the point where none of it feels real anymore. When it debuted, it was this incredible shift in mutant fortunes and something pretty groundbreaking but, since Hickman's departure, it's just descended into more "on the cusp of extinction" and "look at this cool alt reality we've dreamed up" nonsense. And that, for me, is a HUGE waste of potential and talent.

I agree with this sentiment. I'm savoring Lord Ewing's final courses and having a smoke. This thing's a wrap.

I agree that, while I enjoye her character, Frenzy's "redemption" hasn't been "earned". Her arc in Legacy a'd her recent Unlimited story fleshed her out but I' agree it's a bit too easy.
I think Emma and Exodus's inclusion on the "heroes" side is more organic and interesting. Exodus is still VERY morally grey. Same for Mystique and Destiny.

While underwritten, I do think Frenzy's course from super mean killer villain to diplomat to hero is basically reasonable(she kept that AoX timeline in her memory), especially considering the leaps and bounds a character like Emma took to become a premiere X-Man.



Remember when Jean telepathically forced Frenzy(so, who's judging whose ethics and morality?) into joining her ragtag team of X-Men to stop Magneto who was about to take over the earth with an army of newly Legacy Virus-cured Genoshan mutates and additional mutants numbering about 100,000(which basically amounted to Jean telepathically tricking Magneto into a false scenario long enough for Logan to stab him in the back)? Right before the Morrison era. You could say Frenzy's arc begins at least there, but actually think back to the fall of Avalon itself a few years before, when Scott led the surviving Acolytes to the Outback town the X-Men used to live in, and she shows support for him even then in X-Men 44.



You all seem to forget that Emma literally fled the country under duress after having killed a police officer who was investigating her for missing assets from her sister(who she had indeed murdered and stolen her wealth after the explosion at the school which killed Everett).

emmavscop3.jpg

All the Generation X kids were afraid of her(and disillusioned with Sean, who was reeling from the death of Moira) and bounced just before she herself fled. So the question posed at the beginning of Generation X: "Can we trust Emma?" was answered in the final pages of that book as "No, we can't. Then she immediately is shown surviving the death of her Genoshan students and joins the team from jump, basically no questions asked. "I was on drugs and alcohol." was her excuse for any previous behaviors. So no, she didn't really earn it either, she was given a spot and huge narrative focus within the franchise immediately. Joanna hasn't had that privilege.

I'm not saying Frenzy's storyline has been perfect or that she's been well developed even, but at this point, the X-Men really don't have much high ground to stand on in terms of morality. Xavier is dark AF. Beast is a war criminal of the highest order. Angel is Death. Jean kills whole solar systems and timelines as Phoenix. Cyke had his moments. Iceman froze the whole world that one time. And those are just the originals, never mind Wolverine aka century+ of serial killing. Actions in the moment are either maleficent or beneficent. And they can vary moment to moment, perspective to perspective. It's just stories in the end. Characters don't earn anything. They are just written. It's either fun or not, but beauty is ever in the eye of the beholder.

[lefthanded]

Can someone explain the Moira Engine shenanigans to me and what Xavier's plan is exactly?

First: Rise of the Powers of X had the chart where the Moira Engine is a loop created by Enigma to ensure its creation, where the branching Sinister timelines (MR, Stasis, Sinister, and Orbis) fed knowledge back into the loop. Is the "Moira Engine II.4" terminology in this issue just another way of saying "Orbis Timeline" (just a way to refer to some of the branching timelines off of the engine loop)?

Second: The Xavier-Rachel transcript tells us that Xavier needs a biological Moira mind, so that he can speak to Moira before she manifests her powers, and they have to be successful on the first try.

Again, referring to the Rise of the Powers of X flowchart, presumably Xavier wants to travel to Point A (Moira's power manifests at age 13), prior to Moira lives 1-9 and Moira's 10th life (where Enigma exists). Isn't the point of Dominion that they exist across all time, and thus can't be prevented once they are in existence? (Dominions aren't linear, unlike Beyonders and normal characters). Enigma should theoretically still stretch prior to the point C (Moira engine) all the way to Point A (Moira's gift activates).

I get that if Moira never had powers, there would never be a Moira engine. But Xavier is not just traveling to the point pre-Moira engine and pre-Moira turning into a robot (otherwise he could just travel to the time where he is sitting on the park bench while Moira reveals her lives, since that would be pre-robot and pre-Moira engine). That implies that time travel to the past (point A) could ensure Enigma doesn't come online, but Xavier is worried that Enigma will get them if they don't get Point A right .... which implies that Enigma should still be a threat even in the past ... which implies that Enigma exists across all space and time .... which implies that Enigma can't be stopped .... etc.

So I guess my main question is:
1. What kind of information would Moira have that would theoretically affect things in his fight against Enigma?
2. Why does he need to specifically get to her at a specific time before her power manifests? The flow chart mentions her power activates at age 13, but realistically, he could approach her at age 5, or even when she is age 1 year old, when she theoretically already has the knowledge of her past lives, but just not the power to reset the timeline if she dies.
3. How exactly does changing Moira prior to her power activating prevent Enigma, if Enigma exists across all time and space (so changing the past shouldn't change its existence theoretically)?

[Kingdom X]

I agree with this sentiment. I'm savoring Lord Ewing's final courses and having a smoke. This thing's a wrap.



While underwritten, I do think Frenzy's course from super mean killer villain to diplomat to hero is basically reasonable(she kept that AoX timeline in her memory), especially considering the leaps and bounds a character like Emma took to become a premiere X-Man.



Remember when Jean telepathically forced Frenzy(so, who's judging whose ethics and morality?) into joining her ragtag team of X-Men to stop Magneto who was about to take over the earth with an army of newly Legacy Virus-cured Genoshan mutates and additional mutants numbering about 100,000(which basically amounted to Jean telepathically tricking Magneto into a false scenario long enough for Logan to stab him in the back)? Right before the Morrison era. You could say Frenzy's arc begins at least there, but actually think back to the fall of Avalon itself a few years before, when Scott led the surviving Acolytes to the Outback town the X-Men used to live in, and she shows support for him even then in X-Men 44.



You all seem to forget that Emma literally fled the country under duress after having killed a police officer who was investigating her for missing assets from her sister(who she had indeed murdered and stolen her wealth after the explosion at the school which killed Everett).

emmavscop3.jpg

All the Generation X kids were afraid of her(and disillusioned with Sean, who was reeling from the death of Moira) and bounced just before she herself fled. So the question posed at the beginning of Generation X: "Can we trust Emma?" was answered in the final pages of that book as "No, we can't. Then she immediately is shown surviving the death of her Genoshan students and joins the team from jump, basically no questions asked. "I was on drugs and alcohol." was her excuse for any previous behaviors. So no, she didn't really earn it either, she was given a spot and huge narrative focus within the franchise immediately. Joanna hasn't had that privilege.

I'm not saying Frenzy's storyline has been perfect or that she's been well developed even, but at this point, the X-Men really don't have much high ground to stand on in terms of morality. Xavier is dark AF. Beast is a war criminal of the highest order. Angel is Death. Jean kills whole solar systems and timelines as Phoenix. Cyke had his moments. Iceman froze the whole world that one time. And those are just the originals, never mind Wolverine aka century+ of serial killing. Actions in the moment are either maleficent or beneficent. And they can vary moment to moment, perspective to perspective. It's just stories in the end. Characters don't earn anything. They are just written. It's either fun or not, but beauty is ever in the eye of the beholder.

Totally agree. The absorbing the Age of X memories in particularly I think completely explains WHY Frenzy’s attitude changed so much. That’s like absorbing an entire different personality into your head, there are bound to be some changes afterward. Also, someone acting more heroically doesn’t equate fully “redeemed” in my eyes. But with the added context of Krakoa being a fresh start AND Frenzy contributing in significant ways (being the head ambassador of interstellar relations), I can see why the average mutant that wasn’t personally harmed by her isn’t holding a grudge.

And if Frenzy was an anomaly I’d bat an eye, but the X-Men have a history of accepting folks like Magneto (who has definitely killed way more people), Emma, etc.

[DurararaFTW]

Can someone explain the Moira Engine shenanigans to me and what Xavier's plan is exactly?

First: Rise of the Powers of X had the chart where the Moira Engine is a loop created by Enigma to ensure its creation, where the branching Sinister timelines (MR, Stasis, Sinister, and Orbis) fed knowledge back into the loop. Is the "Moira Engine II.4" terminology in this issue just another way of saying "Orbis Timeline" (just a way to refer to some of the branching timelines off of the engine loop)?

Second: The Xavier-Rachel transcript tells us that Xavier needs a biological Moira mind, so that he can speak to Moira before she manifests her powers, and they have to be successful on the first try.

Again, referring to the Rise of the Powers of X flowchart, presumably Xavier wants to travel to Point A (Moira's power manifests at age 13), prior to Moira lives 1-9 and Moira's 10th life (where Enigma exists). Isn't the point of Dominion that they exist across all time, and thus can't be prevented once they are in existence? (Dominions aren't linear, unlike Beyonders and normal characters). Enigma should theoretically still stretch prior to the point C (Moira engine) all the way to Point A (Moira's gift activates).

I get that if Moira never had powers, there would never be a Moira engine. But Xavier is not just traveling to the point pre-Moira engine and pre-Moira turning into a robot (otherwise he could just travel to the time where he is sitting on the park bench while Moira reveals her lives, since that would be pre-robot and pre-Moira engine). That implies that time travel to the past (point A) could ensure Enigma doesn't come online, but Xavier is worried that Enigma will get them if they don't get Point A right .... which implies that Enigma should still be a threat even in the past ... which implies that Enigma exists across all space and time .... which implies that Enigma can't be stopped .... etc.

So I guess my main question is:
1. What kind of information would Moira have that would theoretically affect things in his fight against Enigma?
2. Why does he need to specifically get to her at a specific time before her power manifests? The flow chart mentions her power activates at age 13, but realistically, he could approach her at age 5, or even when she is age 1 year old, when she theoretically already has the knowledge of her past lives, but just not the power to reset the timeline if she dies.
3. How exactly does changing Moira prior to her power activating prevent Enigma, if Enigma exists across all time and space (so changing the past shouldn't change its existence theoretically)?

Immortal X-Men explains that whatever Dominion succeeded in the end, he must not have cut himself off from the causality that led to it's own existence yet, as otherwise, this Dominion wouldn't hesitate to make it's presence known. Any Essex/Sinister incarnation can't help but want to be the only one out there. All these Sinister timelines playing out for thousands of years wouldn't make any sense if a Sinister-Dominion, completely assured of it's own continued existence was out there.

[Technopriest]

If Frenzy had just been a follower or misguided mutant I would overlook that, but she killed someone who was an ally to the heroes and has had no redemption narrative to that. You can like her character and that's fine, but for the heroes to not even bat an eye to her being around, yeah, so much for humans wanting to be their allies. In any case I don't have to like her, but I don't see how she should be leading this group having better options there. And I am not the person to ask about the rest of those characters hanging out with the heroes, since I don't like any of them being accepted as they are.

[Havok83]

If Frenzy had just been a follower or misguided mutant I would overlook that, but she killed someone who was an ally to the heroes and has had no redemption narrative to that. You can like her character and that's fine, but for the heroes to not even bat an eye to her being around, yeah, so much for humans wanting to be their allies. In any case I don't have to like her, but I don't see how she should be leading this group having better options there. And I am not the person to ask about the rest of those characters hanging out with the heroes, since I don't like any of them being accepted as they are.

who are you referring to?

[DurararaFTW]

who are you referring to?

Sharon Friedlander

[ZephyrSurf]

who are you referring to?

Sharon Friedlander

[Nicoclaws]

I agree with this sentiment. I'm savoring Lord Ewing's final courses and having a smoke. This thing's a wrap.



While underwritten, I do think Frenzy's course from super mean killer villain to diplomat to hero is basically reasonable(she kept that AoX timeline in her memory), especially considering the leaps and bounds a character like Emma took to become a premiere X-Man.



Remember when Jean telepathically forced Frenzy(so, who's judging whose ethics and morality?) into joining her ragtag team of X-Men to stop Magneto who was about to take over the earth with an army of newly Legacy Virus-cured Genoshan mutates and additional mutants numbering about 100,000(which basically amounted to Jean telepathically tricking Magneto into a false scenario long enough for Logan to stab him in the back)? Right before the Morrison era. You could say Frenzy's arc begins at least there, but actually think back to the fall of Avalon itself a few years before, when Scott led the surviving Acolytes to the Outback town the X-Men used to live in, and she shows support for him even then in X-Men 44.



You all seem to forget that Emma literally fled the country under duress after having killed a police officer who was investigating her for missing assets from her sister(who she had indeed murdered and stolen her wealth after the explosion at the school which killed Everett).

emmavscop3.jpg

All the Generation X kids were afraid of her(and disillusioned with Sean, who was reeling from the death of Moira) and bounced just before she herself fled. So the question posed at the beginning of Generation X: "Can we trust Emma?" was answered in the final pages of that book as "No, we can't. Then she immediately is shown surviving the death of her Genoshan students and joins the team from jump, basically no questions asked. "I was on drugs and alcohol." was her excuse for any previous behaviors. So no, she didn't really earn it either, she was given a spot and huge narrative focus within the franchise immediately. Joanna hasn't had that privilege.

I'm not saying Frenzy's storyline has been perfect or that she's been well developed even, but at this point, the X-Men really don't have much high ground to stand on in terms of morality. Xavier is dark AF. Beast is a war criminal of the highest order. Angel is Death. Jean kills whole solar systems and timelines as Phoenix. Cyke had his moments. Iceman froze the whole world that one time. And those are just the originals, never mind Wolverine aka century+ of serial killing. Actions in the moment are either maleficent or beneficent. And they can vary moment to moment, perspective to perspective. It's just stories in the end. Characters don't earn anything. They are just written. It's either fun or not, but beauty is ever in the eye of the beholder.

You make some good points.I liked her fine in Legacy as a wanabee hero. Also I haven't read Dead yet, so maybe there still is a bit of mistrust. It's just a bit weird to see her lead an X-team.
(I never read that Emma story so I believe your words on it XD)

[superjosh]

In terms of Frenzy's moral compass, I do believe that she is changed after what happened to her with Age of X. She had a sort of awakening and it was the turning point in her life.

But I can understand the trepidation with how easily she's been accepted because everyone was pretty quickly buddy buddy with her. Most villain to hero story arcs (even for um... mass murderers and such) come with the typical resistance from characters and I guess we haven't gotten much of that.

It's been over a decade now though, so I think anyone who isn't ok with it is just going to be shouting on a hill.