Thrawn (Star Wars) vs Batman (DC Comics)

[JohnDiggle]

Thrawn wants to go to planet earth and find out who Batman really is and expose him to the world. He has 48 hours to do so, can the Grand Admiral Master Mind out smart the worlds greatest detective? Or Will Bruce find out who Thrawn is and what he wants first.

[Shai-Hulud]

This is an easy win for Grand Admiral Thrawn. All he needs is access to DC Earth's internet and he'll be able to deduce that Batman is Bruce Wayne. He won't miss it. That Lex Luthor misses it is PIS/CIS.

On the other hand, the details of the scenario are sparse. Just where does Thrawn set down in Gotham? He is blue with red eyes, after all. That's bound to attract some notice. Does the Admiral have any resources? A universal translator? A computer pad from his universe? So the OP leaves things very imprecise.

But basically, yeah, without PIS/CIS, Thrawn can figure it. Also, Thrawn has no criminal record. What's Bats gonna do? Punch him out for surfing the internet? It's not against the law to be blue, particularly on DC Earth.

[The MunchKING]

It's not PIS so much as Batman and Oracle spent a lot of time laying down false trails. The last time someone followed the "So obvious" clues in the comics they ended up going after a rich billionaire living in Gotham with hero complex and deep seated issues. Alan Scott.

And let me tell you, when you're looking to put a hit on Batman, running into a Green Lantern is WAY outside your paygrade.

[choptop]

This is an easy win for Grand Admiral Thrawn. All he needs is access to DC Earth's internet and he'll be able to deduce that Batman is Bruce Wayne. He won't miss it. That Lex Luthor misses it is PIS/CIS.

On the other hand, the details of the scenario are sparse. Just where does Thrawn set down in Gotham? He is blue with red eyes, after all. That's bound to attract some notice. Does the Admiral have any resources? A universal translator? A computer pad from his universe? So the OP leaves things very imprecise.

But basically, yeah, without PIS/CIS, Thrawn can figure it. Also, Thrawn has no criminal record. What's Bats gonna do? Punch him out for surfing the internet? It's not against the law to be blue, particularly on DC Earth.

Are you saying batman can't do anything to someone unless they break the law? I also don't understand why you think it's so obvious to figure out who batman is...?

[choptop]

This is an easy win for Grand Admiral Thrawn. All he needs is access to DC Earth's internet and he'll be able to deduce that Batman is Bruce Wayne. He won't miss it. That Lex Luthor misses it is PIS/CIS.

On the other hand, the details of the scenario are sparse. Just where does Thrawn set down in Gotham? He is blue with red eyes, after all. That's bound to attract some notice. Does the Admiral have any resources? A universal translator? A computer pad from his universe? So the OP leaves things very imprecise.

But basically, yeah, without PIS/CIS, Thrawn can figure it. Also, Thrawn has no criminal record. What's Bats gonna do? Punch him out for surfing the internet? It's not against the law to be blue, particularly on DC Earth.

Are you saying batman can't do anything to someone unless they break the law? I also don't understand why you think it's so obvious to figure out who batman is...?

[Sharpandpointies]

It's not PIS so much as Batman and Oracle spent a lot of time laying down false trails. The last time someone followed the "So obvious" clues in the comics they ended up going after a rich billionaire living in Gotham with hero complex and deep seated issues. Alan Scott.

And let me tell you, when you're looking to put a hit on Batman, running into a Green Lantern is WAY outside your paygrade.

Okay, I admit I laughed. ^_^

[Little_Mac]

This is an easy win for Grand Admiral Thrawn. All he needs is access to DC Earth's internet and he'll be able to deduce that Batman is Bruce Wayne. He won't miss it. That Lex Luthor misses it is PIS/CIS.

On the other hand, the details of the scenario are sparse. Just where does Thrawn set down in Gotham? He is blue with red eyes, after all. That's bound to attract some notice. Does the Admiral have any resources? A universal translator? A computer pad from his universe? So the OP leaves things very imprecise.

But basically, yeah, without PIS/CIS, Thrawn can figure it. Also, Thrawn has no criminal record. What's Bats gonna do? Punch him out for surfing the internet? It's not against the law to be blue, particularly on DC Earth.

Munch pretty much stated why it's hard for Thrawn to figure out. Bruce has false trails

I just think that Thrawn can't expose Bruce to the world as Batman in 48 hours and get it believed. What is he going to do that Riddler/Hugo Strange/Joker and various other Bat-villains haven't tried over the last 30 years? He can try and expose him on TV, but Bruce had body-double, robots and other friends/resources to counter-act that.

48 hours is just too short a period of time. Bruce figures him out first.

[Shai-Hulud]

Are you saying batman can't do anything to someone unless they break the law?

The OP is rather vague, but Bats doesn't even know who Thrawn is and what he wants. How will he find out? Thrawn will keep this advantage. His entire schtick is as a supra-genius tactician, strategist, logistician, investigator, and psychologist. Only he's not one of Batman's usual rogues with their neurotic m.o.'s. He won't leave riddles or clues, just silently get to work in the most unobtrusive manner possible. How would Bats learn of him, and why would Bat's go after him? Because he's blue?

OP says Thrawn "wants to go to Earth." How does Thrawn get there? Does he have a starship suddenly appear in orbit? Bats is screwed; Thrawn can probably tap the net from space, and the scenario makes no mention of other superheroes helping out. OP is Thrawn vs Batman in a battle of wits, not Superman vs an Imperial Star Destroyer

Does Thrawn arrange a mission through a dimensional gate? OP suggests Thrawn has prep-time before arriving on Earth. That means if he goes through a dimensional gate, he'll bring stuff with him. He'll be disguised by make-up or holographics (or other means) so as to not appear blue-skinned and red-eyed. He'll have Star Wars level tech for hacking, other computer work, and other functions. He may even have R2D2-like droids for hacking work.

Also, he doesn't even need to touch down in Gotham. He could, say, touch down in Seattle, Washington.

Without the details to the scenario, it's difficult to be more precise. But OP looks to heavily favor Thrawn. Exception would be if Thrawn suddenly teleported into Gotham in a bad neighborhood. Thrawn is wearing his Imperial "Dr. Evil" uniform, he's blue and obviously alien, and Batman is on patrol and spots him. Obviously, Bats is going to zero in on him under these circumstances.

So what are the circumstances?

I also don't understand why you think it's so obvious to figure out who batman is...?

The guy isn't just a supra-genius in military science. He's capable of irrational intuitive leaps to catch deep undercover moles and to grasp the psychology of his enemies.

For example, say you were an expert at starship warfare, sort of like the Julius Caesar of space combat. But maybe you also write poetry or compose music. If Thrawn read your poems or listened to your music, he'd be able to deduce how you fight, how you think, your methods, tactics, and weaknesses. He'd go into battle knowing all this just from studying your artwork. Or your personal history.

And ... I think everyone remembers this:

2YEiI2O.jpg
A7iWKvW.jpg

Thrawn's feats at studying foes and arriving at correct irrational intuitive leaps are such that, without PIS/CIS, he doesn't miss it. Uncovering Batman's secret identity is almost too easy.

As for convincing the world, he'd probably encapsulate his findings in a manner similar to Joker above, explaining and exposing Bruce Wayne's bat-neurosis as pop psychology people can easily understand and assimilate. That part's a little harder because he has to get the data out onto the net in a big way, for example, by utilizing bot-farms. If he's got a few droids, this shouldn't be any problem either.

[master of read]

[Slade1]

As for convincing the world, he'd probably encapsulate his findings in a manner similar to Joker above, explaining and exposing Bruce Wayne's bat-neurosis as pop psychology people can easily understand and assimilate. That part's a little harder because he has to get the data out onto the net in a big way, for example, by utilizing bot-farms. If he's got a few droids, this shouldn't be any problem either.

Easier said than done when Bruce can easily have someone like Martian Manhunter pose as Batman, or any of his allies. Seeing is believing and no matter how much he uses the internet or tech to convince the population so it’s not going to work. And he’ll only get one chance at this because then he’ll be on Batman radar and he definitely doesn’t want that. And Star Wars tech isn’t that much past DCU tech. There are some that make it look like caveman tools.

[The MunchKING]

The OP is rather vague, but Bats doesn't even know who Thrawn is and what he wants. How will he find out? Thrawn will keep this advantage. His entire schtick is as a supra-genius tactician, strategist, logistician, investigator, and psychologist. Only he's not one of Batman's usual rogues with their neurotic m.o.'s. He won't leave riddles or clues, just silently get to work in the most unobtrusive manner possible. How would Bats learn of him, and why would Bat's go after him? Because he's blue?

I mean in DC that pretty much means you're a super villian or a super hero.

The guy isn't just a supra-genius in military science. He's capable of irrational intuitive leaps to catch deep undercover moles and to grasp the psychology of his enemies.

Two problems,

A) Wasn't that through art? So without knowing of Batman's stuff collection (which would require knowing it's under stately Wayne Manor) he doesn't have any insight into Batman's psyche that the average person doesn't.

B) Wasn't his big undoing that he completely failed to detect that his guys weren't loyal and were totally going to assassinate him as soon as they could?

For example, say you were an expert at starship warfare, sort of like the Julius Caesar of space combat. But maybe you also write poetry or compose music. If Thrawn read your poems or listened to your music, he'd be able to deduce how you fight, how you think, your methods, tactics, and weaknesses. He'd go into battle knowing all this just from studying your artwork. Or your personal history.

Which given that Batman doesn't make any sort of art, and Bruce Wayne's whole art/culture aesthetic is intentionally set up to drive everyone AWAY from thinking he's Batman means he'll make the complete wrong conclusions.

[Shai-Hulud]

Which given that Batman doesn't make any sort of art....

A batarang is art, the batmobile is art, his bat-insignia is art, the little bat ears on the sides of his cowl are art. Batman's entire "Halloween" motif is an artistic creation. Bruce Wayne has made himself into a spooky, scary, violent work of art. He's become Nemesis, a revenant, adopted the guise of a supernatural creature because "criminals are superstitious and cowardly lot."

To Thrawn it'll be all so obvious. But Thrawn appreciates good art. In fact if there's a catch in the OP, it's that Thrawn, figuring out the mystery, probably wouldn't expose Bruce just for shits and giggles. Thrawn wouldn't ruin a good work of art unless it was instrumental in achieving a valid strategic objective — although in this scenario, regrettably, ruining Bruce's art is the victory condition.

If we add in CIS, Thrawn learns Bruce's secret, and is about to give the order to a dozen R2 droids to spam social media, when he suddenly decides, no, he doesn't want to cancel the performance.

[Guy1]

He's become Nemesis, a revenant, adopted the guise of a supernatural creature because "criminals are superstitious and cowardly lot."

[Totoro Man]

before we go too much further, I think the OP needs to clarify the specific resources available to Thrawn.

if Thrawn doesn't have his usual flagship and staff he's never going to be able to use tactics like "spam social media" because he doesn't have the ability or the time (based on feats). this all presumes that he sets up viable accounts on social media using email addresses.

with no social security number, place of residence, phone number, bank account, email, and legal identification some of these ideas are going to be harder to pull off than Shai-Hulud imagines.

also looks like Shai-Hulud is moving goal posts to help ensure Admiral Thrawn will win. (batarang = "art")

Thrawn is a smart and capable character. but the mission here is to reveal Batman's secrety identity. detective work and revealing somebody else's secret is something Thrawn COULD be very good at. but this is something Batman has been thwarting this very strategem for almost as long as the character has existed. we go by feats... last I checked. Thrawn isn't omniscient. he still has to acquire information and learn like everybody else.

48 hours is an extremely short period of time. if Thrawn doesn't have access to his usual resources he can't possibly win. and if he has access to his usual resources that would mean he has a massive spaceship that has to come within clear visible range of a planet... THAT is going to raise up alarm all over the planet. it is also impossible for Thrawn to get to planet earth by his usual means in complete secrecy... unless he is magically transported, alone, into Gotham City... and doesn't communicate with anybody else on his ship... because communication signals can be detected and intercepted.

interesting scenario... but, I feel like we need more information before people can proceed debating in a meaningful way.

[Shai-Hulud]

before we go too much further, I think the OP needs to clarify the specific resources available to Thrawn.

if Thrawn doesn't have his usual flagship and staff he's never going to be able to use tactics like "spam social media" because he doesn't have the ability or the time (based on feats). this all presumes that he sets up viable accounts on social media using email addresses.

with no social security number, place of residence, phone number, bank account, email, and legal identification some of these ideas are going to be harder to pull off than Shai-Hulud imagines.

also looks like Shai-Hulud is moving goal posts to help ensure Admiral Thrawn will win. (batarang = "art")

Thrawn is a smart and capable character. but the mission here is to reveal Batman's secrety identity. detective work and revealing somebody else's secret is something Thrawn COULD be very good at. but this is something Batman has been thwarting this very strategem for almost as long as the character has existed. we go by feats... last I checked. Thrawn isn't omniscient. he still has to acquire information and learn like everybody else.

48 hours is an extremely short period of time. if Thrawn doesn't have access to his usual resources he can't possibly win. and if he has access to his usual resources that would mean he has a massive spaceship that has to come within clear visible range of a planet... THAT is going to raise up alarm all over the planet. it is also impossible for Thrawn to get to planet earth by his usual means in complete secrecy... unless he is magically transported, alone, into Gotham City... and doesn't communicate with anybody else on his ship... because communication signals can be detected and intercepted.

interesting scenario... but, I feel like we need more information before people can proceed debating in a meaningful way.

Yes, just like I pointed out. We need more on the circumstances.

The OP is rather vague....

As for convincing the world, he'd probably encapsulate his findings in a manner similar to Joker above, explaining and exposing Bruce Wayne's bat-neurosis as pop psychology people can easily understand and assimilate. That part's a little harder because he has to get the data out onto the net in a big way, for example, by utilizing bot-farms. If he's got a few droids, this shouldn't be any problem either.

Yes the hard part for Thrawn is not the mystery itself, but getting the information out. He'll need droids or some other resources. In fact, he'll probably need universal translators, money, and a disguise or I suspect he doesn't get anywhere at all.

I still think the scenario favors Thrawn. Why?

Thrawn wants to go to planet earth and find out who Batman really is and expose him to the world. He has 48 hours to do so, can the Grand Admiral Master Mind out smart the worlds greatest detective? Or Will Bruce find out who Thrawn is and what he wants first.

OP tells us the scenario starts by Thrawn "wanting" to go to Earth. So it's not that the Plot Gods are suddenly grabbing him off his world, telling him his mission, and depositing him in Gotham City. Thrawn already knows something about Earth, Batman, and what his goal is from the outset. So if Thrawn is the one who, himself, is leading this expedition, he'll make proper logistical preparations before he leaves.

We're not told by OP exactly how Thrawn gets to Earth, where he touches down, and what he can take with him. But it certainly sounds as if Thrawn himself is organizing the expedition, and so he has prep, some knowledge of the terrain, mission goals, and so forth, well in advance.

One technicality: We're not told when the forty-eight hour countdown starts. I suppose it could start as soon as Thrawn forms the mere desire to expose Batman, but that seems rather ephemeral. My read is that the clock starts ticking the moment Thrawn arrives on Earth (or Earth orbit), a discrete, measurable event, and not before — and this implies prep-time for Thrawn. But if someone were to point out that OP doesn't explicitly say either way, that would be correct.

also looks like Shai-Hulud is moving goal posts to help ensure Admiral Thrawn will win. (batarang = "art").

We're going to have to agree to disagree here. I think there's just no bones about it, Batman is performance art. Even though we're talking about comics Batman here, this was a theme in Batman Begins. Theatricality, crafting a legend for yourself. Bruce has created a mythical persona in Batman and stepped inside. It's performance art as psychological warfare. It's right up Thrawn's alley.