G.O.D.S. by Jonathan Hickman *Spoilers*

[Thirteen]

Relieved to see that some of the Abstract to Manifestation Body Avatar transformations aren't Bi-Ped Humanoid form to More Earthling looking bi-ped humanoid form. Was starting to seem species-ist

[jackolover]

One thing I do recognise is that Eternity and Living Tribunal now have human avatars. That’s new.

[Marvel Wars]

Master Chaos "The human avatar should wear a different dress in every panel. Have fun !" XDXD

[Alan2099]

I can't see why the Living Tribunal would need a human avatar.

[king of hybrids]

I can't see why the Living Tribunal would need a human avatar.

Probably because, according to wiki, this LT is an alternate Adam Warlock; so he might be heeling nostalgic

More seriously, LT seems to have suffered a bit of an in-universe demotion in kind with TOAA being knocked down to upper middle management since Secret Wars

[BuraddoRun]

Hi all! New poster here (though I've lurked for months now), and this is my first post. I haven't yet read Issue 6, but count me in with those of you who wonder just where this is all going, and how the heck we'll get there with just 2 issues left (3 for me). The story feels so small and self-contained right now, but these are the biggest characters in the Marvel Universe we're dealing with! It seems like it should be much, much bigger and affect basically everything in Marvel 616 continuity. But it's Hickman, right? He can still do it!

Did we ever get an explanation of what all those Skinner boxes were for, or whom they housed besides Cubisk Core? I theorized that, maybe, all non-cosmic-Pantheon life was seeing reality from within a more advanced Skinner Box. Like everything they, and by extension we, understand about the G.O.D.S. was not the fullness of reality, but rather what was constructed. So everything they know about good and evil is based on their conditioning inside the box. So once they all break free, well...things will change.

I don't know if I still believe that to be the case, but I still except something big and world-changing to happen in the end. I guess we'll see.

[wts6664]

Hi all! New poster here (though I've lurked for months now), and this is my first post. I haven't yet read Issue 6, but count me in with those of you who wonder just where this is all going, and how the heck we'll get there with just 2 issues left (3 for me). The story feels so small and self-contained right now, but these are the biggest characters in the Marvel Universe we're dealing with! It seems like it should be much, much bigger and affect basically everything in Marvel 616 continuity. But it's Hickman, right? He can still do it!

Did we ever get an explanation of what all those Skinner boxes were for, or whom they housed besides Cubisk Core? I theorized that, maybe, all non-cosmic-Pantheon life was seeing reality from within a more advanced Skinner Box. Like everything they, and by extension we, understand about the G.O.D.S. was not the fullness of reality, but rather what was constructed. So everything they know about good and evil is based on their conditioning inside the box. So once they all break free, well...things will change.

I don't know if I still believe that to be the case, but I still except something big and world-changing to happen in the end. I guess we'll see.

My first post. I also think there is a bigger picture here too!

[jackolover]

What do we understand Skinner Box’s are? I had never heard of them until this mini series. They appear to be things outside our perception. The relationship between the G.O.D.S. and Skinner Boxes is very vague.

Also, has anybody worked out what the acronym G.O.D.S. Means yet? I’m thinking Great Order of Destructive Systems.

[jackolover]

Probably because, according to wiki, this LT is an alternate Adam Warlock; so he might be heeling nostalgic

More seriously, LT seems to have suffered a bit of an in-universe demotion in kind with TOAA being knocked down to upper middle management since Secret Wars

Yes, on your second point, why haven’t the TOAA been mentioned yet?

[BuraddoRun]

What do we understand Skinner Box’s are? I had never heard of them until this mini series. They appear to be things outside our perception. The relationship between the G.O.D.S. and Skinner Boxes is very vague.

Also, has anybody worked out what the acronym G.O.D.S. Means yet? I’m thinking Great Order of Destructive Systems.

I hadn't heard of them before this mini-series, either, but I looked them up online. They are basically boxes that were developed by a psychologist named Skinner to study and condition behavior in animals. They use rewards and punishments to teach, and condition, animals to perform certain tasks. The method is called operant conditioning. So for example, an animal might learn to pull a lever as a response to a green light flashing to earn a treat. But if a red light flashes and they pull the lever, they get punished with an electric shock. So the animal eventually learns when to pull the level to get rewarded and not punished. Since they're inside a box, they're in a very controlled environment without outside stimuli.

So Cubisk Core, having been raised in a Skinner Box, was basically being conditioned to do what the In-Betweener wanted him to do. So my theory was that with all those other boxes Strange and Wyn discovered, and the promise of this series having major implications for the Marvel Universe, maybe it had something to do with everyone being in Skinner Boxes of some sort. Basically learning right and wrong as designed by the bigger forces in the universe, but being oblivious to the truths outside the boxes.

[king of hybrids]

It looks like Immortal Thor will be picking up the Skinner Boxes what with Tyr being reformatted inside one

I think TOAA and TOBA might be too tied up in Ewing’s multiversal stuff I think?

[alanyoung909]

However, I wonder about the purposes and powers of the characters. Are they different from before? And if there were changes, when did they occur? Have all of the abstract beings in the Marvel Universe had new roles and designs because of the end of the multiverse during Secret Wars?

What Hickman is doing here is taking pieces of old Marvel continuity he finds useful, and then weaving them together along with new ideas to create a new mythology. In doing things like this, it's more important that the new stuff is superconsistent with itself rather than if the old stuff is not contradicted. See the reveal of Moira X in House of X.

But if we want an in-universe reason for why things have changed, your Secret Wars idea is as good as any.

Is the Living Tribunal still second in power to The One Above All?

LT in issue 6 says that the 8 abstracts that sit on the Axis of Power cannot overrule each other, so probably not.
There is a nod to the Tribunal's previous status though, because he seems to have the power to erase events, that others like Oblivion do not.

Is Eternity still the embodiment of the universe or has he become an embodiment of time?

Eternity representing time + Infinity representing space is actually from old Doctor Strange canon, and I put it in here as a placeholder while we find out if it still holds true in Hickman's take. But I agree it's confusing to put old and new stuff together, so I've edited it out.

Based on interviews though, Hickman's mythology is slightly more complex.

Entertainment Weekly: When it comes to characters like this, at the level of gods, the conflict feels more complex than just good vs. evil. The tagline for G.O.D.S. is that it's the Powers-That-Be vs. The-Natural-Order-of-Things. How do you think about different factions forming at this cosmic level of existence?

Hickman: This is such a ridiculously me answer: I made a graph. I did the three axes of the universe: Life and death, good and evil, science and magic. Then I played with where all the abstracts would fall on that and where all the superheroes would fall on that, just as an exercise and seeing if the conceptual shape worked for what I was trying to make.

3 axes, 8 abstracts = each abstract possibly representing more than 1 idea.
Life has two seasons: day (Infinity) and night (Eternity).
Death leads to two paths: judgment (Living Tribunal) or nonexistence (Oblivion).
Or something like that.

I'm confident the answer lies in the color schemes Schiti uses for his new designs.
For example: Living Tribunal, Infinity & Lord Order have gold in their design, which I think means they lie on the Science half of the 3 axes.

We'll know more when we get the designs for the final two abstracts or when we learn the nature of TNOT and TPTB.
I'll revise this theory at that point.

[D.Z]

The abstract beings were being changed post SW under Ewing, but they reverted back.

Hickman is just doing his "my continuity matters more" thing.

[jsg2295]

Total shame they made the first issue 10 bucks…killed the series for a lot of people.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Here's hoping Ewing tackles G.O.D.S. in another defenders miniseries. Hickman's work always felt sterile and Ewing is better at bringing out the emotion.