Can anyone list some actual socialist countries?

[mathew101281]

Not communist, just socialist.

[Kirby101]

Not communist, just socialist.

Define socialism. Most of Europe and some Asian countries are Democratic Socialist countries.

If you agree with this definition:

Socialism is an economic and political philosophy encompassing diverse economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership.

Then no, there are not and have never been a Socialist country. By the same token, there has never been a true Communist country either.

I think very few people who call themselves socialists actually want a complete elimination of private property and business. There might be a few, but not many.

[Zelena]

Sometimes countries may have a socialist government… It happens sometimes.

But, yes, it’s a matter of definition. Even a government that is not socialist may have a social policy.

[Catlady in training]

Define socialism. Most of Europe and some Asian countries are Democratic Socialist countries.

For example?

[Catlady in training]

Cuba and Vietnam are self-proclaimed socialist countries, I believe. North Korea might be the closest to communism from current countries.

[Kirby101]

Cuba and Vietnam are self-proclaimed socialist countries, I believe. North Korea might be the closest to communism from current countries.

N Korea is a dictatorship, while a benevolent dictatorship is a early stage to Marxist Communism, as the uneducated masses learn to run their own country, N Korea has little resemblance to what Marx envisioned. Remember he was reacting to the industrial revolution and the inequities of the very wealthy.

Cuba and Vietnam have socialist trappings, but not true socialist countries as the OP inquired.

[Kirby101]

For example?

All of Scandanavia, France, Holland, Germany...

Social Democracies have a wide spectrum, part of what we have here in the US is Social Democracy.

[Catlady in training]

All of Scandanavia, France, Holland, Germany...

Social Democracies have a wide spectrum, part of what we have here in the US is Social Democracy.

Social democracy is not socialism. I believe the question was clear.

[Catlady in training]

We did have socialism for over 40 years in Czechoslovakia, when the uneducated masses combined with the dictators in power tried to run the country by mostly day-drinking and slowly dragging the country from one of the strongest economies in Europe to a level of developing country, while the educated were either reassigned to mundane jobs or sent to prison or labor camps.
30+ years later, we are still unable to shake the legacy of massive corruption that this system left here.
Do not recommend.

[Kirby101]

In general pure socialism and communism are utopian ideals that probably would never work with humans involved.

[DrNewGod]

In general pore socialism and communism are utopian ideals that probably would never work with humans involved.

I agree. I have to wonder if any civic system other than autocracy has ever existed in a pure form. Even Athenian democracy was riddled with outside influence on public affairs by a powerful few

[Totoro Man]

I would argue that NO civic system has ever existed in a "pure form"... not even autocracy.

hence the old proverb that if a dictator wants to live a long life, they need to make sure that they have more friends than enemies! every leader depends upon accomplices and followers.

I'm convinced that the only place where "pure" autocracy, communism, democracy, or socialism exists is in the realm of "pure theory".

the fact that the OP used the words "list some actual socialist countries" inclines me to think that they are just trolling people. in my experience this question is almost always asked in bad faith.

a lot of people could reasonably argue that there has never been, and never will be, a truly "communist" nation. "well, if they haven't abolished wage labor, the economy of exchange, courts of law, and private property can we REALLY say that they were communist?" (I have actually read this argument numerous times throughout my life)

if "socialism" means that the 'community' controls the means of production then that has never happened either! it's always controlled by either private interests or the State. maybe some people can pretend that the government is merely an extension of the community... but I think that stretches the definition of 'community' to the breaking point.

Americans like to call Europeans "socialist", as if they weren't living in a Social Democracy (we are). and Europeans like to call Americans "capitalist", as if they weren't practitioners of the fine art of capitalist exploitation (they still are). it's focusing on the small differences that allows people to pretend that we're dealing with radically different cultures... when these cultures have far more in common than they have differences. American capitalism is like riding a bike. European capitalism is like riding a bike with training wheels. sure, those training wheels keep you from falling over, but it's STILL a bicycle. (parliamentary democracy, market economy, some measure of social welfare programs)

Europe still has all of the same basic problems that North America has: corruption, drug trafficking, human trafficking, police brutality, racism, ethnocentrism, domestic terrorism, immigration concerns, substance abuse, suicide, domestic violence, inflation, a huge dependency on cheap migrant labor... all that fun stuff which reminds us of how great it is to live with other people in community! (seriously, the IDEA of a community is still pretty cool... it's just not always cool in practice)

if Norway, for example, is championed as one of the best exemplars of social democracy - what would happen to their economy if the roughly 250,000 Lithuanian and Polish migrant workers that help form the backbone of their agricultural, construction, and service industry all suddenly decided to leave?

https://www.sciencenorway.no/immigra...norway/1866161

https://partner.sciencenorway.no/eco...n-them/1793810

a lot of Americans are convinced that the grass is truly greener in Europe. but the more I study Europe and the challenges they face (both now, and in the past) the differences start to disappear.

[Kirby101]

No one is saying America is a cesspool and Europe is a utopia. The recent rise of far right leaders is troubling. But as a frequent visitor to Europe, and reading numerous surveys, I can tell you the people are generally healthier and happier. This is due to the safety net from the Social Democracy. Things like healthcare and housing are accessible to most of the population. These alone keep the majority of the population. People can hold jobs without the constant fear that one hospital stay could leave them bankrupt and homeless. They can leave college without lifelong debt. There many problems, both social and political, but the social safety net (which is what we are discussing) makes living in Europe easier for the general population.

[Catlady in training]

Yeah, I'm really glad we have public healthcare and education. Doesn't mean it's ideal, far from it, but at least people's first thought when they get sick isn't whether they can even afford treatment.
But those don't make a country socialist, that just sounds like a Republican talking point to scare people from voting for Democrats, especially the descendants from immigrants who escaped from socialist regimes. I wish such fearmongering was called out more.

[Kirby101]

My post was merely a reply to the last line of Totoro:

a lot of Americans are convinced that the grass is truly greener in Europe. but the more I study Europe and the challenges they face (both now, and in the past) the differences start to disappear.

It was not about the main question of this thread,