Diana's "First Time"

[Frontier]

I think the obsession with the loss of virginity is not so much a gender thing, but "pure" characters thing. Like, there's a LOT of debate on whom Spider-Man lost his virginity to. And Superman was a virgin in the Lois & Clark series, so people definitely wonder about that

(It was with MJ).

[DisneyBoy]

I'm sure people think about that though .

Thank you for saying that, Frontier.

I figured someone would comment on my even bringing the subject up. Appreciate the support.

[DisneyBoy]

I suppose, when it comes to Wonder Woman as opposed to most other characters, the issue is she comes from a somewhat unusual background. Superman grew up with a normal life in Kansas, so it stands to reason he lost his virginity as any relatively normal Kansas boy would. Same with Bruce Wayne...at least as much as billionaire orphans can be "normal." Same with most female characters, assuming they're of age.

But with Diana, you first have to acknowledge that if she isn't a virgin when she leaves Themyscira, she must therefore be (gasp) a lesbian or at least bisexual. And let's not pretend DC isn't generally terrified of doing more than play coy on that front, lest they offend certain people who believe Wonder Woman must be an epitome of "wholesome American values."
...as stupid as that sounds.

Then you have to consider her age in relation to the other Amazons. If she's hundreds of years old, it's not really an issue. But if you think Diana is (or should) only be as old as she looks (mid-twenties or so) then that raises potentially awkward questions. I mean, even as a consenting adult, you have to figure some or a lot of Amazons still see her as the "baby" of Themyscira, which would make potential romantic relationships a little awkward.

If you leave her a virgin for Steve, there is something a bit problematic about her losing her virginity to the literal first man she ever met.

Meanwhile--Post-Crisis, which eliminated Steve as a love interest--kept Diana a virgin and over time it became a Thing. It probably shouldn't have become a Thing, but it did, and it turned her into this Madonna figure waiting for who was "worthy" of doing the deed with her. Or, worse, the prize for the coolest Justice Leaguer to win.

Diana's virginity/sex life shouldn't be a huge issue, but due to her backstory, nature as a symbol of female empowerment, and that she should be a sex-positive character--not to mention the fact comics are predominantly written by men who handle female sexuality with the grace of a three-legged hippo--it can become a Thing if left unaddressed.

Personally, I think the best solution is to get it out of the way as simply as possible. Say she lost it on Themyscira (as a consenting adult)...yes, she is therefore Bi...and don't dwell too much any age difference between her and her Amazon girlfriend(s). If it needs to be named Amazon, say it's Mala. The end.

Beautifully explained, both the reasons for this thread, and your own take on how to handle it. Thanks!

[Fuzzy Mittens]

I suppose, when it comes to Wonder Woman as opposed to most other characters, the issue is she comes from a somewhat unusual background. Superman grew up with a normal life in Kansas, so it stands to reason he lost his virginity as any relatively normal Kansas boy would. Same with Bruce Wayne...at least as much as billionaire orphans can be "normal." Same with most female characters, assuming they're of age.

But with Diana, you first have to acknowledge that if she isn't a virgin when she leaves Themyscira, she must therefore be (gasp) a lesbian or at least bisexual. And let's not pretend DC isn't generally terrified of doing more than play coy on that front, lest they offend certain people who believe Wonder Woman must be an epitome of "wholesome American values."
...as stupid as that sounds.

Then you have to consider her age in relation to the other Amazons. If she's hundreds of years old, it's not really an issue. But if you think Diana is (or should) only be as old as she looks (mid-twenties or so) then that raises potentially awkward questions. I mean, even as a consenting adult, you have to figure some or a lot of Amazons still see her as the "baby" of Themyscira, which would make potential romantic relationships a little awkward.

If you leave her a virgin for Steve, there is something a bit problematic about her losing her virginity to the literal first man she ever met.

Meanwhile--Post-Crisis, which eliminated Steve as a love interest--kept Diana a virgin and over time it became a Thing. It probably shouldn't have become a Thing, but it did, and it turned her into this Madonna figure waiting for who was "worthy" of doing the deed with her. Or, worse, the prize for the coolest Justice Leaguer to win.

Diana's virginity/sex life shouldn't be a huge issue, but due to her backstory, nature as a symbol of female empowerment, and that she should be a sex-positive character--not to mention the fact comics are predominantly written by men who handle female sexuality with the grace of a three-legged hippo--it can become a Thing if left unaddressed.

Personally, I think the best solution is to get it out of the way as simply as possible. Say she lost it on Themyscira (as a consenting adult)...yes, she is therefore Bi...and don't dwell too much any age difference between her and her Amazon girlfriend(s). If it needs to be named Amazon, say it's Mala. The end.

And this is why im not a fan of the whole 'There are no new Amazons and all of them are 3,000+ years old aside from Diana the only child' thing. Mala was Dianas age back in the golden age. We had Amazon children in the golden age who were younger than Diana.
Establishing her being the only child only serves to create needless angst for paradise.

[Psy-lock]

I think it's fine if she's the only child as long as there are Amazons who come out of the Well of Souls after her birth. Mala could be one of them. I don't hate the clay children thing, but I prefer it to be unique to Diana.

[I'm a Fish]

I always just kinda figured the island had thousands of Amazons and there was no possibility way for Diana to get close to, or even meet most of them before she turned 18.

[John Venus]

I don't see any reason why the Well of Souls should just spit out adult women in their mid 20's.

[marhawkman]

I don't see any reason why the Well of Souls should just spit out adult women in their mid 20's.

I figured it'd be babies to raise.

[Vordan]

Not even other superheroines, I swear you'll never find discussions about who Zatanna, Supergirl, Catwoman, or Black Canary's "first times" should be.

Paul Dini has totally obsessed over Zatanna’s “purity”

Yeah, but with WW's treated as if we don't have a fully formed idea of her sexual history from cradle to gave is than it's a failure of Marston or something.

Anyone want to debate if Clark or Lois were one another's first time?

Lana is usually implied or shown to be Clark’s first. Lois is definitely not a virgin by the time her and Clark meet.

I don't see any reason why the Well of Souls should just spit out adult women in their mid 20's.

Well that kind of raises the question of why does Hippolyta have Diana in the first place if she can just adopt one of the new Amazon babies.

[John Venus]

Well that kind of raises the question of why does Hippolyta have Diana in the first place if she can just adopt one of the new Amazon babies.

Same reasons why people in the real world want their own kids instead of adopting. Or even having biological kids while also adopting.

[Majesty]

Okay.. so here's my perspective on this.

You don't need to tell a story directly about Diana's "virginity". However you can tell a story about her first love, and first kiss/moment of true love. The rest can be inferred or guessed.

Thing is I'd want it in main continuity, and I'd want it to be on Themyscara with another Amazon. There's plenty to choose from. It doesn't even have to be a big name one like Artemis, it could be Kasia. Yeah, remember her? Dian's "most special" person on Themyscara? The one she was established to be in a relationship with? The one that was the 'most special/most important' person she said goodbye to when she left with Steve?

Yeah you know how the ONLY LGBT representation in terms of romance in the main continuity they have given us in Wonder Woman since 2016 and a kiss on the cheek is that she now has a villain whom is obsessed/crazy/stalkerish towards her? Because THAT trope is something we DEFINITELY needed.... The first time we get any woman to woman interest in Diana and it's the "crazy obsessed lesbian" trope. I am sick, and I am tired. Since 2016 we got a measly "She's been with this many girls" statement from an Amazonian, and a kiss on the cheek from Kasia. They've done NOTHING ELSE since 2016 with this. Because those barely any breadcrumbs were meant to be enough.


Anyway back to the main point, if main continuity and the people in charge of what they allow to be released, actually cared, or grew any bit of courage to explore Diana in an actual lesbian relationship, but are 'too afraid' to do it in modern day.. they can very easily the story of Diana's first love on Themyscara, be it in a flashback story or otherwise, but tied to the main continuity.

Tell the story of a young Diana whom was still learning the ropes, that was seeking to prove herself, that was trying to become the person we all eventually know her to be. Show the moment that Kasia caught her eye, establish Kasia as a character, establish what she does on the island. Does she make armor? Is she another warrior? Does she do more than fish?

Establish these moments, and show Diana going out of her way to impress her, or failing to do so in different kinds of funny shenanigans that are relatable to trying to get your crush's attention, and put Diana in that position.
Show her and Kasia then truly greet after Kasia finally lets it be known she's noticed Diana's efforts and the times that Diana messes up makes her laugh.
Show the moment Diana first asks her out on a date, and Kasia accepting. Show that date and the moments within it, in different images, show the good time they had, the laughter they shared and the festivities of it.
Show them continue to go through the trials of the Amazonians and everything else therein.

Then ultimately, show them in a true tender and vulnerable moment with one another, where Diana opens up in a way she previously didn't, and have Kesia open up to her in a similar fashion, and place them under the stars, or anywhere else beautiful on Themyscara. And have it lead to a kiss between them. Have the narration or the story establish their love, and all that was within that kiss.

The rest can be inferred. The next morning you could show them awakening in Diana's room, and if you wish to make it obvious, they can be under the covers with one another.


Notice, I'm not hitting any different tropes that aren't done in heteronormative courtship in comics, because lesbian ones shouldn't be treated either different in terms of effort and story exposure, nor with 'careful/kid gloves'.


But the main point is to establish Diana's first love, and how that effects her, or helps establish things she carries with her to this day and onwards. You could have made it a Valentine's Day release or something of the short. And you'd use it to establish Diana and Kasia's love being finally shown. But as you did it in 'flashback' you don't have to continue forward with it in the story you're telling.

Would it make me happy if they didn't continue following up or have Kasia appear more often? Of course it would. But I'm going by how they like to do business and how little they actually ever want to give Diana in terms of romantic relationships with other women.

That's their route they can take with it, which both establishes Diana's first love and finally gives some payoff/acknowledgement to her and Kasia's relationship/bond/love they had/have.


So the goal isn't "when did she lose her V card" it's "Who was Diana's first love, and how did that go?" That's how you make it work imho.

[gwhh]

A bit off-topic. It seemed to be implied that

https://www.writeups.org/nemesis-tre...man-dc-comics/

Was differently one of her better lovers!