Diana's "First Time"

[thwhtGuardian]

I'm sure people think about that though .

And if they do they're decidedly weird.

[Frontier]

And if they do they're decidedly weird.

Not any more than anyone who thinks about the sex lives of Superheroes...

[thwhtGuardian]

Not any more than anyone who thinks about the sex lives of Superheroes...

Which again is decidedly weird.

[Frontier]

Which again is decidedly weird.

I mean, for the amount they focus on characters' relationships/loves/hook-ups etc...

[Gaius]

This seems like such a weird thing to wonder about, and weirdly sexist. I mean, I don't see any hand-wringing about who Bruce Wayne or Clark Kent lost their virginity to and when they did so why wonder about Wonder Woman's sexual history?

Not even other superheroines, I swear you'll never find discussions about who Zatanna, Supergirl, Catwoman, or Black Canary's "first times" should be.

[Frontier]

Not even other superheroines, I swear you'll never find discussions about who Zatanna, Supergirl, Catwoman, or Black Canary's "first times" should be.

Are we sure about that? I feel like people would be at least curious about it. Because obsessive fanboys be obsessive .

[Primal Slayer]

Not even other superheroines, I swear you'll never find discussions about who Zatanna, Supergirl, Catwoman, or Black Canary's "first times" should be.

Don't get people started on Supergirl. They'll go on about how she cant lose it like how they've said Superman should shoot super babies

[Gaius]

Are we sure about that? I feel like people would be at least curious about it. Because obsessive fanboys be obsessive .

Yeah, but with WW's treated as if we don't have a fully formed idea of her sexual history from cradle to gave is than it's a failure of Marston or something.

Anyone want to debate if Clark or Lois were one another's first time?

[Guy_McNichts]

I suppose, when it comes to Wonder Woman as opposed to most other characters, the issue is she comes from a somewhat unusual background. Superman grew up with a normal life in Kansas, so it stands to reason he lost his virginity as any relatively normal Kansas boy would. Same with Bruce Wayne...at least as much as billionaire orphans can be "normal." Same with most female characters, assuming they're of age.

But with Diana, you first have to acknowledge that if she isn't a virgin when she leaves Themyscira, she must therefore be (gasp) a lesbian or at least bisexual. And let's not pretend DC isn't generally terrified of doing more than play coy on that front, lest they offend certain people who believe Wonder Woman must be an epitome of "wholesome American values."
...as stupid as that sounds.

Then you have to consider her age in relation to the other Amazons. If she's hundreds of years old, it's not really an issue. But if you think Diana is (or should) only be as old as she looks (mid-twenties or so) then that raises potentially awkward questions. I mean, even as a consenting adult, you have to figure some or a lot of Amazons still see her as the "baby" of Themyscira, which would make potential romantic relationships a little awkward.

If you leave her a virgin for Steve, there is something a bit problematic about her losing her virginity to the literal first man she ever met.

Meanwhile--Post-Crisis, which eliminated Steve as a love interest--kept Diana a virgin and over time it became a Thing. It probably shouldn't have become a Thing, but it did, and it turned her into this Madonna figure waiting for who was "worthy" of doing the deed with her. Or, worse, the prize for the coolest Justice Leaguer to win.

Diana's virginity/sex life shouldn't be a huge issue, but due to her backstory, nature as a symbol of female empowerment, and that she should be a sex-positive character--not to mention the fact comics are predominantly written by men who handle female sexuality with the grace of a three-legged hippo--it can become a Thing if left unaddressed.

Personally, I think the best solution is to get it out of the way as simply as possible. Say she lost it on Themyscira (as a consenting adult)...yes, she is therefore Bi...and don't dwell too much any age difference between her and her Amazon girlfriend(s). If it needs to be named Amazon, say it's Mala. The end.

[Frontier]

Yeah, but with WW's treated as if we don't have a fully formed idea of her sexual history from cradle to gave is than it's a failure of Marston or something.

Anyone want to debate if Clark or Lois were one another's first time?

(Clark was definitely not Lois')

[Psy-lock]

I think the obsession with the loss of virginity is not so much a gender thing, but "pure" characters thing. Like, there's a LOT of debate on whom Spider-Man lost his virginity to. And Superman was a virgin in the Lois & Clark series, so people definitely wonder about that

[Badou]

This seems like such a weird thing to wonder about, and weirdly sexist. I mean, I don't see any hand-wringing about who Bruce Wayne or Clark Kent lost their virginity to and when they did so why wonder about Wonder Woman's sexual history?

If Clark and Bruce were thousands of years old and only in their recent history interacted with women for the first time I'm sure fans would wonder who they lost their virginity to. Because of Wonder Woman's origin she is uniquely positioned where her early interaction with men is kind of pertinent to her story. So fans are going to wonder about it. Though I feel like Superman gets speculation about his first time some, same as a character like Dick Grayson given we saw him grow up in comics to track it, but Batman doesn't really get it because I don't think people are all that interested in the details of Batman's life pre cowl.

But this is more of a product of comics being made for adults now than for kids. Where adults will want to pick apart details like this while it wouldn't really occur to kids to think about.

[SiegePerilous02]

Then you have to consider her age in relation to the other Amazons. If she's hundreds of years old, it's not really an issue. But if you think Diana is (or should) only be as old as she looks (mid-twenties or so) then that raises potentially awkward questions. I mean, even as a consenting adult, you have to figure some or a lot of Amazons still see her as the "baby" of Themyscira, which would make potential romantic relationships a little awkward.

This is why I am in favor of bringing back the Golden Age element that Amazon children are born from clay in general, and she was merely the first such case. So we have another generation of Amazons that are her age that could be playmates/friends and potential girlfriends. Or if we go the Historia route, there is the possibility that there were other infants or very young children among the Amazons imprisoned on Themyscira who wouldn't be much older than her.

This business of her being the only child on the island and "knowing the love of a thousand mothers" while also implying she's been in relations with some of them has always been uncomfortable. Have Kasia, Meghara, Evryale, etc be other Amazons her age, and we have no problem.

I think the obsession with the loss of virginity is not so much a gender thing, but "pure" characters thing. Like, there's a LOT of debate on whom Spider-Man lost his virginity to. And Superman was a virgin in the Lois & Clark series, so people definitely wonder about that

I think the Bronze Age comics answered who Clark lost his virginity to, and the answer was....less than stellar. It involved a creepy robot Kryptonian tutor and dubious consent for the girl.

For my money, if he didn't lose it to Lana, he lost it to Lori.

[witchboy]

It is weird that we did get a Bronze Age story about how Superman lost his virginity, and yeah it is a bigger train wreck than you'd expect. I believe post Crisis the first confirmed sexual partner Superman has is Amazing Grace on Apokolips while he's amnesiac/brainwashed - one of at least three encounters he has while compromised, the others with Silver Banshee while he's turned evil, and an interrupted encounter with Big Barda while they're both mind controlled. But I don't think that encounter with Grace was meant to be his first time. His first time is kept unexplored afaik. When he left Smallville Lana was in love with him and expected him to propose before he revealed his powers to her. So it's reasonable to think she was his first, but then he doesn't feel the same way about her so idk. Then there was the weird relationship with Lori, but that also seems unlikely since he didn't know she was hiding a fish tail. That leaves me wondering if there's wiggle room for her to have done other things besides intercourse. We probably aren't supposed to think about this so hard.
The Lois and Clark tv series actually established outright that Clark was a virgin until he married Lois, and that she was not.
It was absolutely implied that Steve and Diana were lovers during the Mod era.

[Guy_McNichts]

I'll admit I'm somewhat torn because I do like Diana as the only child on Themyscira and I don't want her hundreds of years old before she meets Steve. But I also want her to have had at least one relationship before she leaves, so if I'm writing Wonder Woman...or at least putting together my own head-canon...I kinda backed myself into a corner.

I think there are ways to work it, but it does feel weird trying to justify it was okay for a twenty year old and a thousand+ year old to hook up, even if they are all immortal. It's one of those things where the logistics of fantasy/sci-fi fiction breaks down when you really think about it.
As I said in my previous post, probably best to just not dwell on it.


Here's something...
I want to preface this by saying I don't necessarily endorse this idea or that it's what I would do if I were writing Wonder Woman...this is purely for discussion's sake...

What if Barbara was Diana's first?

Play into the idea that Diana is only in her twenties and a virgin when she leaves Themyscira...although she does develop feelings for Steve and they eventually hook up, who's to say it happened that quick, and she initially gravitated toward Barbara first?

Again, not saying this is how I'd want it to go, but food for thought.