Can someone explain how the "Moira Machine" works?

[ermac]

Hello, all.

So I know that Mr. Sinister made a bunch of Moira clones and has some sort of "Moira Machine" that is fueled by her ressurection power.

What I don't get is how he used it on Sins of Sinister. He supposedly reseted the timelines a few times but that happened off panel. Did we revert to Moira's birth each time? Can control the last "checkpoint"? But really, wasn't Moira supposed to have only 10 lives?

And in Dead X-Men the team went to the timelines of the killed Moira clones. How is that possible? The death of a Moira clone erases the reality, right? So those timelines shouldn't exist.

If anyone could explain the Moira Machine to me, I would be very grateful.

[DurararaFTW]

Hello, all.

So I know that Mr. Sinister made a bunch of Moira clones and has some sort of "Moira Machine" that is fueled by her ressurection power.

What I don't get is how he used it on Sins of Sinister. He supposedly reseted the timelines a few times but that happened off panel. Did we revert to Moira's birth each time? Can control the last "checkpoint"? But really, wasn't Moira supposed to have only 10 lives?

And in Dead X-Men the team went to the timelines of the killed Moira clones. How is that possible? The death of a Moira clone erases the reality, right? So those timelines shouldn't exist.

If anyone could explain the Moira Machine to me, I would be very grateful.

It resets not to Moira's own birth but to the creation of that specific clone, who then gains the memories of that timelines Moira clone which Sinister is feeding it throughout that timeline using his telepathy. But yes, the death of Moira erases reality so none of it should exist other then then the memories extracted from that Moira clone afterwards. Which should work to give Enigma info on Sinister's Dominion attempt but not really the others. But we've changed how Moira's whole thing works evidently.

[NewMutant]

Dead X-Men (as fun as it was) messes this up to me.

[GokaiBlack077]

Hello, all.

So I know that Mr. Sinister made a bunch of Moira clones and has some sort of "Moira Machine" that is fueled by her ressurection power.

What I don't get is how he used it on Sins of Sinister. He supposedly reseted the timelines a few times but that happened off panel. Did we revert to Moira's birth each time? Can control the last "checkpoint"? But really, wasn't Moira supposed to have only 10 lives?

And in Dead X-Men the team went to the timelines of the killed Moira clones. How is that possible? The death of a Moira clone erases the reality, right? So those timelines shouldn't exist.

If anyone could explain the Moira Machine to me, I would be very grateful.

I'm gonna try to explain one question at a time:

1) The way Sinister uses the Moira Engine works in a video game with multiple save points. The Moira we know activated her X-Gene around 13 years old and functions on a timeline-wide scale with each death. Sinister, by contrast, cloned Moira sometime before her depowering and (if I'm guessing right) genetically optimized the Moiras to both a) activate the X-Gene when Sinister attempts to make a move in his current timeline (while creating a cut-off point to the moment he activated the Moira rather than resetting the whole timeline; Sinister mentions in Immortal #9 the clones are less stable/powerful than the real Moira; it's why he has to make so many) and b) create and activate a new Moira whenever he wants to keep pursuing the outcome (Dead X-Men shows alludes to this by the way the Moiras are numbered: III.9, II.7, etc.; their branching paths that Sinister took that backfired on him).

2) The real Moira only had ten lives on account of Destiny telling her she wouldn't survive her final timeline...at least not in a way she could go back (which turned out to be true when Mystique cured her with Forge's depowering ray in Inferno #4; her "11th life" happens when she sacrifices her humanity and becomes an android working for Orchis). It's also why Prodigy has to find an organic Moira to read her memories as opposed to a robotic one.

3) Regarding how they can travel to timelines when they shouldn't exist, I can only think of 2 reasons: either the timelines never actually become erased when Moira dies (Rasputin IV being an interesting inclusion given her survival was through Mother Righteous' magic) and that they can travel across timelines without a living Moira (this is also helped when Enigma appears in the timeline where Dr. Stasis supposedly attempted becoming a Dominion, an outcome the Professor finds out in Immortal #18 which may take place before ROTPOX #1) or Askani/Rachel is combining her power with the White Hot Room and Krakoa's No-Place (both of which exist outside the fabric of time and space) to cheat their way to a past timeline.

Regardless, I feel that Gillen and the crew know this and we still have five months of comics to explain these questions (Rise, Dead and X-Men Forever).

[Grunty]

Did they ever reveal what was on the data crystal that Wolverine put into Moira in Life 9?

It obviously was uploading something into her memories, so she could carry the data into her next life, but it didn't seem we ever got conformation what it was.

Especially since it could have contained a complete overwrite of her actual memories, meaning anything from Life 1 to 8 could have been false.

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

Did they ever reveal what was on the data crystal that Wolverine put into Moira in Life 9?

It obviously was uploading something into her memories, so she could carry the data into her next life, but it didn't seem we ever got conformation what it was.

Especially since it could have contained a complete overwrite of her actual memories, meaning anything from Life 1 to 8 could have been false.

I think she gave that info to Charles and magneto... it was about the sol orbit mother mold and that something there creates Nimrod... they just then pulled a Greek tragedy and self fulfilled the nimrod part.

TbH they did the wrong thing.. they should have cut the heads off before the snake was born and killed the AIM and other scientists before they could get to the SOL base... then again they also should have asked for Steve and Peter and Tony and Reed to help day 1

[Harasar]

Hello, all.

So I know that Mr. Sinister made a bunch of Moira clones and has some sort of "Moira Machine" that is fueled by her ressurection power.

What I don't get is how he used it on Sins of Sinister. He supposedly reseted the timelines a few times but that happened off panel. Did we revert to Moira's birth each time? Can control the last "checkpoint"? But really, wasn't Moira supposed to have only 10 lives?

And in Dead X-Men the team went to the timelines of the killed Moira clones. How is that possible? The death of a Moira clone erases the reality, right? So those timelines shouldn't exist.

If anyone could explain the Moira Machine to me, I would be very grateful.

Sinister created multiple clone, each at different time, and each of them resets timeline to the time of its x-gene activation, not to the time of original Moira's birth; they work separately from her. Moira's power resets the timeline and sends her mind with all her memories back to the moment of her creation. Sinister used this by uploading his knowledge into cloned Moira, once he wanted to reset timeline, he would kill the specific clone and reset timeline to the moment of that clone's creation. And he constantly checked the memories of each clone, once they have some new information, it means the future him reset timeline and the current him gets information about that future and changes his plans accordingly to avoid it. This was how he managed to kill Hope and start the Sins of Sinister:
1) the future Sinister tried to kill Hope
2) something stopped him
3) he uploaded this information into Moira's clone and killed it
4) the current Sinister gets the information from this Moira's clone and changes his plan to avoid/circumvent the problem
And then steps 1-4 are repeated over and over again until he managed to remove all obstacles and kill Hope.

Rise of the Powers of X #1 is also set in one of Moira's clones timelines, but in the diagram at the end of the issue it is confirmed what Moira's death and her clones' death destroy the timeline. And this diagram also have Enigma, No-Place-X and White Hot Room grouped together as existing "outside of time and space". And as was said previously about Dominions, once they are born/created, they exit outside of time/space and now exist at every point or time even prior to their birth/creation. So, since No-Place-X and White Hot Room are grouped with dominion Enigma, then they are likely also exist at every points of time and as such they can access any timeline, including those created by Moiras, because from their point of view these timelines simultaneously not yet exist, exist and no longer exist. This would explain why Enigma could visit the timeline where Stasis tried to reach dominion, and why Rasputin needed to return to No-Place-X, before being able to go to some other timeline, and why Dead X-Men were yanked back to White Hot Room, before Askani could send them to another timeline. Only from these places that exist outside of time could these timelines be reached.

[Ubauba01]

IIRC, in one timeline that was messed up by Mr. Sinister, shown in Immortal X-Men, he said that if he died, the timeline would reset. He didn't mention Moira in that timeline. This was before the Sins of Sinister event.

[patch]

IIRC, in one timeline that was messed up by Mr. Sinister, shown in Immortal X-Men, he said that if he died, the timeline would reset. He didn't mention Moira in that timeline. This was before the Sins of Sinister event.

Sinister's tied the Moira engine to his lifeforce. Similar to what happened at the end of Rise of the Powers of X #1. There, after Wolverine kills Sinister, that cascades and kills the Moria clone to jump back to the save point. In Immortal X-Men, each time the council thwarted his assassination attempts and killed him, it just activated the Moria engine back to its start point.

Screenshot 2024-02-08 084301.jpg

[Ubauba01]

Sinister's tied the Moira engine to his lifeforce. Similar to what happened at the end of Rise of the Powers of X #1. There, after Wolverine kills Sinister, that cascades and kills the Moria clone to jump back to the save point. In Immortal X-Men, each time the council thwarted his assassination attempts and killed him, it just activated the Moria engine back to its start point.

Screenshot 2024-02-08 084301.jpg

Ah, I see. Thanks for explaining.

In Dead X-Men, in the Limbo conqured timeline, it was revealed Ilyana killed Moira. How come that timeline still exists after that? (I didn't read every issue of the main X-Men story, so IDK if it was explained before).

[DurararaFTW]

Ah, I see. Thanks for explaining.

In Dead X-Men, in the Limbo conqured timeline, it was revealed Ilyana killed Moira. How come that timeline still exists after that? (I didn't read every issue of the main X-Men story, so IDK if it was explained before).

If she has been depowered, she can die like anyone else.

[Ubauba01]

If she has been depowered, she can die like anyone else.

Ok, I see, thanks.

[Ubauba01]

Also, to answer OP's question, it seems they travel back in time to the past of those dead timelines, before the Moira engine erased them.

This means the timelines are dead but their history still exists as the past (of sorts).

[ermac]

Thanks for the response, guys!

[ETMike1988]

Sinister's tied the Moira engine to his lifeforce. Similar to what happened at the end of Rise of the Powers of X #1. There, after Wolverine kills Sinister, that cascades and kills the Moria clone to jump back to the save point. In Immortal X-Men, each time the council thwarted his assassination attempts and killed him, it just activated the Moria engine back to its start point.

Screenshot 2024-02-08 084301.jpg

In the SoS timeline would Sinister's death cause a reset!? Or not because the clone body was stolen from his lab!?