Peter David and David Michelinie's early 1980s Spider-Man work

[wleakr]

Can't see why Marvel can't make ASM a monthly series once again. In addition, Marvel really should hire Chris Claremont as the series writer. Do you agree?

ASM sells too well to be a monthly book. But maybe they would consider making it thrice monthly again!

That actually may get you what you want, as they would need a new brain trust to keep up with that increased schedule and could add Claremont as part of the team.

[Mister Mets]

Web of Spider-Man #12
Following the events in the previous issue (which I didn’t cover since it’s not by Peter David or David Michelinie) Peter Parker is celebrated as a hero for standing up to some punks. They also burned down his apartment in retaliation. Aware that Spider-Man has some kind of connection to Peter, one of them asks his hitman brother to take care of Spidey, but the guy offers an alternative: he’ll take out Peter Parker. The New York Times and Daily Bugle work together to celebrate Peter. Spider-Man tries to take on the punks, when they’re trying to warn him about the hitman waiting in Peter’s apartment, with Mary Jane as a potential victim.
This story seems to be set before the events of the Sin-Eater saga, given the reference to a fire in Peter’s apartment. If there’s a message on crime in New York City in Peter David’s run, it seems to be that the situation is messier than expected. He’ll mock people who are too lenient in one story, but also show that sometimes we shouldn’t be too harsh, as when Spider-Man realizes that no one else in the community has been hurt by three punks, so that maybe they deserve a second chance. And the public is only on Peter’s side when he’s going with the simplistic narrative. I like how this story seems to be in a conversation with the rest of the run.
Sal Buscema and Bob McLeod deliver solid storytelling and atmosphere. There’s also a great sense of Peter’s character, both his better qualities and flaws, like how he squanders a break.
B+



Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man #112
It’s Christmas, and Peter mistakenly avoids offers for a Holiday dinner from Aunt May (which would also include Mary Jane) and Robbie Robertson, The Santa Claus burglar from the Death of Jean Dewolff strikes again, targeting Peter’s neighbor Bambi and her son. This activates a sleeping Spidey’s spider-sense, but someone else takes out the bad guy.
The story has some modest developments, with the Black Cat calling in, a supporting character getting a new wife, Peter learning about Bambi’s son, some mistletoe related flirting with a coworker, a solid gag about beepers, a friend of Aunt May’s having legal developments following an earlier story and a cliffhanger promising a new challenge.
I didn’t care for artist Mark Beachum in Michelinie’s first arc, and he doesn’t seem to be the best fit for Spider-Man here. Otherwise it’s a pleasant Christmas story and fits nicely with the rest of the run.
B+



Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man #113
Aunt May’s boarder Ernie returns after a grand jury declined to press charges over the time he shot some punks in the Subway. The Bugle sends Peter to Aunt May’s to see if Ernie’s willing to do an interview, while the friends of the punk he shot want retribution and take Aunt May’s residence hostage. Spider-Man is going to have to go into the house he grew up, when it’s surrounded by police and media to fight some teenage idiots who took Aunt May and her friends hostage. In ongoing plots, the Black Cat learns that the mysterious Foreigner may have things worth stealing, and a scientist’s abused child is exposed to some radiation.
This is a difficult situation for Spider-Man, and it is earned, building on what’s been established in the last few issues. There are some excellent moments, like Spider-Man recognizing someone Peter knows, and MJ’s advice to him that he’s too close to the situation (until someone fires a gun, and she tells him to go ahead- but she knows he would have done it anyway- it may be a top ten moment for her.) The crooks are nasty, and not just in a comic book way, but it gets more complicated. Ernie tries to empathize with them, and Nate Lubensky does something that shakes Aunt May to her core. Bob Mcleod's style fits this material very well.
In one scene, Spider-Man’s looking for the Hobgoblin and torments Joey Face, a random punk from JM DeMatteis’ Marvel Team-Up, whose funeral is part of Kraven’s Last Hunt. So this story also serves to connect the most acclaimed black costume Spider-Man stories from the 90s. I get why the Death of Jean Dewolff is collected with the second Sin-Eater story, but these two issues of Spectacular Spider-Man do connect to it pretty well.
A

[Mister Mets]

I would personally rate it much higher. Maybe it's just the nostalgia, but the final panel of Roxanne, who is questioning her values, taking the photo of the dead man anyway because it's the only thing she knows to do, has stuck with me.

That is a strong moment. I just didn't think the overall story had some flaws.

I always thought he was paying homage to "Rope".

The specific story could be inspired to Rope.

But the style of the series is influenced by Hill Street Blues, including the use of white text over a black panel for the credits, only at the end of the story.

Can't see why Marvel can't make ASM a monthly series once again. In addition, Marvel really should hire Chris Claremont as the series writer. Do you agree?

I don't think Spider-Man works as well as multiple titles.

I'm getting a sense of the problems following different books now, and this was in an era, where longer stories like The Death of Jean Dewolff or Gang War were as rare as a new Spider-Man movie. In the current era where stories are longer, it's difficult to reconcile multiple ongoing stories with the same characters.

He wrote quite a few issues of MTU.

Yeah, that's an underrated run.

[Darthfury78]

I don't think Spider-Man works as well as multiple titles.

I'm getting a sense of the problems following different books now, and this was in an era, where longer stories like The Death of Jean Dewolff or Gang War were as rare as a new Spider-Man movie. In the current era where stories are longer, it's difficult to reconcile multiple ongoing stories with the same characters.

Yeah, that's an underrated run.

Multiple title could work as separate self contain storylines. Would rather see Amazing Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, and Avenging Spider-Man as the three main titles that focus on different aspects of Peter Parker. The latter book could focus on his allies who could get elevated to the pages of Amazing Spider-Man, like Black Widow and Jessica Drew respectively.

In retrospect, Marvel should have had Chris Clarmont write Amazing Spider-Man, Roger Stern write Spectacular Spider-Man, and Neal Gaiman write Avanging Spider-Man for a 3-year contract period before being rotated with a different team of writers who could bring over their pervious Marvel storie unto Spider-Man.

[Mister Mets]

Multiple title could work as separate self contain storylines. Would rather see Amazing Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, and Avenging Spider-Man as the three main titles that focus on different aspects of Peter Parker. The latter book could focus on his allies who could get elevated to the pages of Amazing Spider-Man, like Black Widow and Jessica Drew respectively.

In retrospect, Marvel should have had Chris Clarmont write Amazing Spider-Man, Roger Stern write Spectacular Spider-Man, and Neal Gaiman write Avanging Spider-Man for a 3-year contract period before being rotated with a different team of writers who could bring over their pervious Marvel storie unto Spider-Man.

I don't think it was up to Marvel whether Neil Gaiman would write Avenging Spider-Man. If he hinted that he'd like to do a team-up title, they would be prepping up the announcement tomorrow.

The A-plot could be self-contained, but I think Peter Parker works best with issue to issue continuity, where events in one story impact him in the next.

Especially with modern decompressed storytelling, it requires an increased output of Amazing Spider-Man. Satellites can work in that context, but Slott's adjective-less Spider-Man- which is probably the most creatively successful satellite launch since Brand New Day- quickly got turned into spinoffs with Spider-Boy and Superior Spider-Man.

My feeling is that successful satellite books have to be carefully managed, so it fits what's going on in Amazing Spider-Man and feels meaningful, without distracting readers of Amazing Spider-Man (or forcing readers of a new book to be intimately familiar with the main title.)

[Triniking1234]

Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man #113
Aunt May’s boarder Ernie returns after a grand jury declined to press charges over the time he shot some punks in the Subway. The Bugle sends Peter to Aunt May’s to see if Ernie’s willing to do an interview, while the friends of the punk he shot want retribution and take Aunt May’s residence hostage. Spider-Man is going to have to go into the house he grew up, when it’s surrounded by police and media to fight some teenage idiots who took Aunt May and her friends hostage. In ongoing plots, the Black Cat learns that the mysterious Foreigner may have things worth stealing, and a scientist’s abused child is exposed to some radiation.
This is a difficult situation for Spider-Man, and it is earned, building on what’s been established in the last few issues. There are some excellent moments, like Spider-Man recognizing someone Peter knows, and MJ’s advice to him that he’s too close to the situation (until someone fires a gun, and she tells him to go ahead- but she knows he would have done it anyway- it may be a top ten moment for her.) The crooks are nasty, and not just in a comic book way, but it gets more complicated. Ernie tries to empathize with them, and Nate Lubensky does something that shakes Aunt May to her core. Bob Mcleod's style fits this material very well.
In one scene, Spider-Man’s looking for the Hobgoblin and torments Joey Face, a random punk from JM DeMatteis’ Marvel Team-Up, whose funeral is part of Kraven’s Last Hunt. So this story also serves to connect the most acclaimed black costume Spider-Man stories from the 90s. I get why the Death of Jean Dewolff is collected with the second Sin-Eater story, but these two issues of Spectacular Spider-Man do connect to it pretty well.
A

New York is rough as hell. Spidey needs to start breaking bones like he does in the PS4 game.

[Mister Mets]

Web of Spider-Man #13
Jonah pushes a story in which Spider-Man is accused of attacking an ordinary civilian, and this causes further damage to Spidey’s bad reputation, leading the public to prefer bank robbers to him. Ben Urich realizes that the “civilian” was a con artist who thought Spider-Man was chasing him, but before the Bugle can print a retraction, Spider-Man decides to go confront Jonah one last time.
In some ways, the issue is filler, since it doesn’t move any ongoing stories along, or have obvious repercussions. But it is steeped in history, like the scene where Spider-Man remembers all the times that he’s helped Jonah in the past. His frustration is understandable, while Jonah has some points about how things could be worse; he follows a specific code of honor. And it fits in a very specific time period in the Spider-Man comics, where Jonah & Robbie are starting a new project, Peter’s apartment burned down, and Spider-Man’s blamed for the body count in the Sin-Eater story. And we learn that Mary Jane made Peter watch the movie Network, but they have very different impressions of the ending.
Some sequences work really well, like the cut from someone asking how so many media types could get in a hospital room to a janitor counting a wad of cash. The opening scene contrasts a Daily Bugle article with the reality of the encounter between Spider-Man and the guy who panics, and that’s effective.
I don’t know much about artist Mike Harris, although inker Kyle Baker would go on to be a superstar. The art reminds me of John Totlebon’s Swamp Thing, but it works for a story that’s mostly about ordinary people where Spider-Man is a weird guy in a black and white costume (I’m curious as to whether the costume led to grittier stories, or whether an acceptance of grittier stories was what caused the black and white costume to stick around so long.) Sometimes the storytelling seems a bit awkward, but it’s fun and tells something about the characters and the world of the 1980s.
A-



Web of Spider-Man #14-15
After the tryout a few months earlier, David Michelinie takes over as the main writer of Web of Spider-Man, working with Mike Harris and Kyle Baker. After recent events (Nate Lubeksny suffered a beating in the classic “Whatever Happened to Crusher Hogan?,” Peter’s apartment burned down, the Daily Bugle management has new people who don’t know Peter as well as Jonah and Robbie) Peter’s financial problems are more desperate than ever. He has an uncomfortable ace up his sleeve, since he got his hands on a solid gold notebook in Secret Wars 2. After an encounter with the Black Fox- an elderly cat burglar (side note- I love what Jed McCay did with him in various Black Cat mini-series), he realizes that his opponent’s fence could help with that problem, but it seems the Black Fox has murdered the poor guy. And both Spider-Man and the Black Fox are targets of Chance, a new mercenary working for the Foreigner.
The Black Fox has at least two memorable encounters with Spider-Man in Michelinie’s Amazing Spider-Man run, and I like how he’s using the character here. He’s scummy, but it puts Spider-Man in a weird position because he’s an old guy who isn’t killing people like the Vulture, but is able to take advantage of his naivete. Chance is a solid addition to the rogues gallery, a B-lister, but not every bad guy is on the level of Dr Octopus. He has gimmicks (mostly gambling on various outcomes) that make him stand out, even if he’s likely best known now for appearing in Todd McFarlane’s first Spider-Man story. Mary Jane does something big for Peter here, which shows her weird role at this time when Marvel didn’t know what was going to happen with her within two years in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man (in David Michelinie’s first storyline when he gets the main book.)

I wonder if I’m making a mistake skipping DeFalco/ Frenz’s run, and the assorted fill-ins in Spider-man titles that aren’t by Peter David or David Michelinie. I suppose it’s useful to get a sense of what it’s likely to follow the Spider-Man comics at this time, without getting all of it (even if fans at the time would probably have an easier time getting their hands on each issue of Amazing Spider-man, and may struggle more getting with the satellite books.)
Harris is fine on art. His take on the red and blue Spider-Man seems to be Ditko-esque, but fitting the realistic take on the character in the satellite books, where Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man is a crime drama, and Web generally focuses on taking Peter to new environments, even if this story focuses on his challenges in New York. Michelinie certainly delivers in his second story, with a good sense of Peter’s voice, and completely relatable difficulties.
B+

[comictimes]

Art wise, a perfect example of the inker saving the day.

[Mister Mets]

Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man #115-116
Peter’s been having some bad luck lately, and it ruins a few opportunities for photos. He realizes that he’s still affected by the Black Cat’s powers and asks Doctor Strange to remove them, while she goes to steal something from the Foreigner (who makes his first appearance here after a cameo as just a voice in Web of Spider-Man #15.) She suffers a serious beating, barely escaping with her life, and gets targeted by Sabertooth, who figures this is going to help him make a new and powerful friend. Meanwhile, a scientist’s abused child seems to have gained new power.
This story seems to be a bit unfocused, although big stuff happens in ongoing stories. It’s not a great standalone, but it’s solid as two issues that are part of a much larger story, although the extent to which you’ll enjoy that may depend on how much you like that material. I like the drama with the Black Cat, and the set-up to an encounter with a kid who has great power, but the gold notebook’s been causing too much drama and the idea that Peter thinks Flash Thompson is the Hobgoblin is just ridiculous. There is a moment that’s important in retrospect where MJ wonders why it feels like she had a lovers’ quarrel with Peter. I’m probably happier just looking at the stories by Peter David and Michelinie, since DeFalco’s a few months from leaving Amazing Spider-Man in the middle of the Gang War story.

There are some nice sequences, and I like the idea that Peter’s luck was so bad that Dr Strange needed to fix it (although he declines to get rid of Black Cat’s memories of his secret identity, so this is the first seed of One Moment in Time/ No Way Home.) Spider-Man’s fight with Sabertooth has a solid resolution. There’s a nice sense that Peter and Black Cat are aggravated at the same thing, but the moment of his epiphany on this is a bit clunky.
Mark Beachum draws the first issue, and Rich Buckler draws the second. Both are a decent match for street-level stories, though I think Buckler’s better at keeping things on-model while maintaining a sense of atmosphere.
B



Amazing Spider-Man #278
Peter David and Jo Duffy wrote the script over Tom DeFalco’s plot. Flash Thompson has been arrested as the Hobgoblin, and Peter is pressured by the Bugle to arrange for an interview. He doesn’t know that the Flash is targeted by the Scourge, a master of disguise wiping out bad guys in the Marvel Universe. At the same time, Jean Dewolff’s brother Brian has a breakdown and becomes the Wraith once again.
The idea that Peter believed that Flash was the Hobgoblin seems kind of dumb. I just can’t get past that specific part. Peter wrestling with moral questions when he’s connected to a major media story is fine, although it’s a story beat I’ve seen quite recently.
Peter David will return to the series for Amazing Spider-Man #289, which does tie up the Hobgoblin saga (although I didn’t like it the last time I read the series.) I wonder if he chose to use the Wraith, since it does connect to Jean Dewolff, but all it really ends up doing is removing a C-list villain.
The encounter with the Scourge is okay. I like how Peter doesn’t realize what his spider-sense is warning him of when he encounters a disguised cop, and the Scourge takes advantage of the environment of the prison. I wonder if this is the first comic where Peter realizes he can't get his webshooters past a metal detector. The clues about the Hobgoblin are really obvious.
Frenz is solid here. I generally like his 80s work, where he was almost Ditko-esque with storytelling that was both clean and bold, but it's a bit off at times.
B

[Daibhidh]

It's weird seeing early appearances of Sabretooth before he became a Wolverine villain.

[comictimes]

And then they retroactively turned him into a Wolverine villain (X-Men #212).

[Mister Mets]

Web of Spider-Man #16-17
Jonah is ready to launch NOW Magazine, which will have more of a national and even international focus. Cash-strapped Peter is sent to Appalachia to cover protests over a new company, except when he gets there with Joy Mercado it’s eerily quiet. They’re soon attacked by agents of a mysterious company, and saved by a woman whose autistic child has been kidnapped. A cavern has been transformed into a secret lair, where Joy Mercado wants to uncover the story, and Spider-Man has to face Magma.
Marc Silvestri takes over as artist, and the cover promises a new direction. Part of it is that Now Magazine is ready to launch as a story engine to send Peter Parker (and Spider-Man) to new environments, which was the purpose of this iteration of Web of Spider-Man since the very beginning. The red and blue costume is destroyed in this story, ending a stretch where Peter alternates between costumes. Marvel could easily have high hopes for Silvestri, although it’s his work on X-Men that makes him big enough to be an Image founder (another Image founder will soon redefine Amazing Spider-Man with Michelinie.) Silvestri’s got a solid take on Spider-Man and a great sense of atmosphere. The secret base inside of a mountain is a bit lame.

Michelinie has a good handle on Peter’s voice, and how he weighs difficult decisions, like how much he should be willing to use his powers in front of a coworker, and whether he should take the risk of emerging as Spider-Man. He’s also dealing with specific traumas from events in other titles, like the bystander killed in the fight with the Sin-Eater (It’s mentioned in several stories, and I think that works to show how difficult these things can be for Peter.) I like his comment about how he wants to be a scientist when he grows up. Joy Mercado is tough in a way that’s almost stereotypical, but it’s a decent dynamic for Peter.
This issue has an odd cliffhanger, with Peter Parker believed dead. The gimmick is that Spider-Man’s also missing in the pages of the other titles, which is a way to move stories along without him.
B

Marvel Team-Up #110
Magma was introduced a few years earlier in a single issue story by David Michelinie and Herb Trimpe (Michelinie had one other story where he wrote over DeFalco’s plot, so I’m skipping that one) so I guess that’s worth checking out.
New York City is struck by tremors, Tony Stark thinks he has the solution, and Peter Parker is sent to the press conference. A new tremor causes further trouble, but Iron Man and Spider-man think they may be able to track the source to new villain Magma.

Herb Trimpe’s style is a bit odd. It’s sometimes stiff, but often interesting. He can be a Steranko and Kirby clone at times, but imitation Steranko is still compelling.
The story seems unfocused, so I’m not shocked that Michelinie wrote over Trimpe’s plot. I like the smaller moments in the team-up, like Spider-Man not immediately getting over knockout gas, and the times Iron Man underestimates or overestimates him.
There is one scene that really doesn’t land for me, where Iron Man uses an experimental turbo-bore to go half a mile under the Earth. It seems excessive, potentially dangerous and pointless, since the end result is finding Magma’s secret lair, which he and his henchmen have to be able to access without digging under the Earth.
It is indulgent for Michelinie to bring back Magma with a splash page reveal in the end of Web of Spider-Man #16. However, Magma does have a decent origin story, especially the delusional way he blames everyone else.
B-

[Mister Mets]

I'm going to continue this thread for about two more weeks up until the wedding and the return of the Sin-Eater. Afterwards, I'm going to check out the '98 relaunch and Ultimate Spider-Man.

In a few months, I'll probably do a thread on the early marriage years. Part of it is that there's a clean break thanks to Kraven's Last Hunt and the Mad Dog Ward taking over the series for three months. Then, Todd McFarlane joins Amazing Spider-Man at roughly the same time Gerry Conway takes over Web of Spider-Man and Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man.

There are also semi-logical endpoints. In the middle of 1991, Erik Larsen leaves Amazing Spider-Man, Todd McFarlane leaves (adjectiveless) Spider-Man, JM Dematteis returns to Spectacular Spider-Man and Terry Kavanaugh takes over Web of Spider-Man.

I'm wondering what to call any thread on that.
"The Marriage years with David Michelinie, Gerry Conway, Todd McFarlane, Erik Larsen, Sal Buscema and friends" is too long. It cuts off with Larsen.
"The Marriage years with Michelinie, Conway, McFarlane, Larsen, Buscema and co." fits.
I could also go with "Spider-Man comics From 1988-1991" but that's a bit dull.
I could go with something else like "Peak Dark Ages" because that's the main term for this era of superhero comics (If it's old enough to be President, it can't really be the modern age any more.)

I could also have one thread covering the marriage up until the Clone Saga, but it seems that there's a different energy to the comics at that point. DeMatteis becomes the most important writer, Bagley has an impact on Amazing Spider-Man and the satellite books have new directions. That's a change from when Conway and Michelinie wrote most of the Spider-Man comics.

Suggestions are welcome.

[bob.schoonover]

I'm going to continue this thread for about two more weeks up until the wedding and the return of the Sin-Eater. Afterwards, I'm going to check out the '98 relaunch and Ultimate Spider-Man.

In a few months, I'll probably do a thread on the early marriage years. Part of it is that there's a clean break thanks to Kraven's Last Hunt and the Mad Dog Ward taking over the series for three months. Then, Todd McFarlane joins Amazing Spider-Man at roughly the same time Gerry Conway takes over Web of Spider-Man and Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man.

There are also semi-logical endpoints. In the middle of 1991, Erik Larsen leaves Amazing Spider-Man, Todd McFarlane leaves (adjectiveless) Spider-Man, JM Dematteis returns to Spectacular Spider-Man and Terry Kavanaugh takes over Web of Spider-Man.

I'm wondering what to call any thread on that.
"The Marriage years with David Michelinie, Gerry Conway, Todd McFarlane, Erik Larsen, Sal Buscema and friends" is too long. It cuts off with Larsen.
"The Marriage years with Michelinie, Conway, McFarlane, Larsen, Buscema and co." fits.
I could also go with "Spider-Man comics From 1988-1991" but that's a bit dull.
I could go with something else like "Peak Dark Ages" because that's the main term for this era of superhero comics (If it's old enough to be President, it can't really be the modern age any more.)

I could also have one thread covering the marriage up until the Clone Saga, but it seems that there's a different energy to the comics at that point. DeMatteis becomes the most important writer, Bagley has an impact on Amazing Spider-Man and the satellite books have new directions. That's a change from when Conway and Michelinie wrote most of the Spider-Man comics.

Suggestions are welcome.

I'd just call it the "Honeymoon Period" - I think that accurately covers both the right amount of time you're covering and the general tone of the books

[Mister Mets]

I'd just call it the "Honeymoon Period" - I think that accurately covers both the right amount of time you're covering and the general tone of the books

I think you're on to something. A "honeymoon period" is shorter, but something like the Newlywed Years makes sense.