Alex Summers: Havok Appreciation 2024 Cry Havok 4 the Nexus being Goblin Prince

[Havok83]

Im not justifying or crucifying him for any of that but those are in universe reasons for why people havent trusted him. He's one of the heroes (that started out as one) that has flip flopped his allegiance the most.

[GoingGreen]

But wasn't that him going undercover with the brotherhood, like Dani did similarly, the inverted bit wasn't his fault and most of the X-Men just ignored him and didn't show any interest in him during that time, leaving him inverted for years. What X-person hasn't killed a human, so Alex is far from alone in that. Being resurrected isn't a crime, Lorna and the others have been resurrected as well.

Mm, weeelll... it was a nice try by Marvel, saying he was undercover. But while "undercover", he sucker-punched Polaris (his girlfriend) with his plasma so hard that her heart stopped. Shard had to resuscitate her. Undercover or not, that was evil.

[EmeraldGladiator]

Well, it's a bit bigger than blaming Alex for everything, hah, but I hear you. In the Polaris thread, I'm openly harsh against Havok for reasons I won't get into here, and I don't want them together at all, however I'll always have a big soft spot for Havok.

A lot of the kids in the Polaris thread only come with the perspective of post-Genosha / Austen Era Polaris. It's hard for them to appreciate how amazing X-Factor was for both of these characters at the time. Havok had been treated quite a bit better than Polaris, but even he'd suffered some tough calls. X-Factor was a wild breath of fresh air for both of them, and did wonders for their IPs. I think it went on a little too long, and eventually made it difficult for their relationships to build with old colleagues, but those early years were vital for the characters to get some proper development.

If you read the end first, you don't get to appreciate the journey.

Going Green, Being an Alex fan, I often find it interesting how the Lorna-stans dunk on him in their thread. I never knew the hate ran so deep but ole Alex has done some heinous things in relation to Lorna, but I typically blame the bad writers and not the character of Alex himself. The ole Jessica Rabbit, I am not bad I am just drawn that way defense. First off let me state again I am a fan of the Alex Maddy pairing. I was totally into X-books when they fell for each other. Lorna and Alex to my recollection were the, yeah we have powers but we want a life outside of Super Hero adventures couple, good for them but not really endearing to kids who want to read Super Hero adventures. So I felt bad about the Malice related break up but wasn't broken up over it. Lorna stans hate the idea of Alex and Lorna on the same title but for me, Lorna and Alex on the same group book might be the way to give Lorna stans what they want. With a good enough writer depicting Alex and Lorna on the same team recognizing their history but feeling that they work best as friends. If one of them is in danger the other is the first to rush off to save the other might not be Maddy's favorite thing but complicated relationships happen as you mature. In my head canon Alex and Lorna are mature enough to work on the same team, and long to see each other in healthy relationships. Lorna keeps an eye out for Alex and on Maddy but not out of jealousy as would Alex over anyone who was fortunate to date Lorna. It might cause issues initially would Maddy but eventually they can bond over it as Lorna advises Maddy about Alex's stupid mindsets. If written correctly it would end the Lorna dependent on Alex narrative and prevent future writers to do the lazy, "Hi Alex" portrayal of the character. So while I am stanning for an Alex and Maddy title, I would have no problem with Lorna being on the team too, not for messy triangle reasons but for ways to give all three characters a deeper more nuanced portrayal but that would require a very good writer to pull it off.

[EmeraldGladiator]

Mm, weeelll... it was a nice try by Marvel, saying he was undercover. But while "undercover", he sucker-punched Polaris (his girlfriend) with his plasma so hard that her heart stopped. Shard had to resuscitate her. Undercover or not, that was evil.

Yeah better undercover interpretation is that Alex let Maddy in on the heel turn and worked out a shot that looked deadly but since she is prepared for easily absorbed but she played it off if anyone was watching.

[plasmaintights]

Unrelated, but who do you think Alex would pick to his own team his needed. I personnaly thinks he fits better as the moral center than the actual lead if he is good at strategy, but hey. Summers are put in leader positions.

For me, I would really enjoy if Alex reflected on his many, many team changes and moments of being brainwashed into evil or part of a redemption team by mixing up a lot of people he knew over the years for a 616 version of the six from Mutant X. Maybe Ever for the team's telepath, Warpath for the strong guy archetype.

Perhaps a human/mutate to show the times Alex wasn't a fan of Karkoa/Utopia/the mutant underground. (I honestly think Havok and Chasm could have had a good dynamic if Ben stayed longer at the ambassy). Fatale seems to not have minded the betrayal much when they met again in Dark X-Men.

Madelyne is busy with Limbo so maybe Alex would just ask her to be support, like back in Outbreak? Or she can be a full member. Wasp he might take for a mission to fight Kang and get Kathy back. Or maybe bring Dazzler back for the Outbreak reference? Her and Havok usually get along great.

Maybe get a reavers to show how Alex really believes in redemption and make contacts with the weirdest people, but that would probably be a strech and make double with Warpath. Oh, maybe Alex realizes Empath feels bad for the ending of Hellions and accept him while trying to make Julian's empathy levels grow? But Empath would need to have distinct use as a teamate from Ever. ��

Okay, so I think I would go Alex, Warpath, Ever, Fatale, Madelyne and a non-mutant to be determined.

For me, he's had the best written chemistry with Warpath, with Kwannon and Greycrow in Hellions, with Cable -- briefly, during the first UA era -- here and there with Beast (pre-Krakoa heel turn), & with Captain America, Wasp, and Scarlet Witch under Remender -- though everything from the child with Wasp to his undoing of the world being destroyed by a Celestial got swept under the rug once Remender left Marvel.

Anyway, I'm not especially fond of the Alex/Maddy connection -- but a team with Warpath, Kwannon, Cable and maybe someone like Sunspot would be, I think, a lot of fun.

Space Havok was also a lot of fun for me, in part because Brubaker and the other writers on those Shi'ar/Vulcan arcs seemed to know how to handle Havok's power set.

[GoingGreen]

Going Green, Being an Alex fan, I often find it interesting how the Lorna-stans dunk on him in their thread. I never knew the hate ran so deep but ole Alex has done some heinous things in relation to Lorna, but I typically blame the bad writers and not the character of Alex himself. The ole Jessica Rabbit, I am not bad I am just drawn that way defense. First off let me state again I am a fan of the Alex Maddy pairing. I was totally into X-books when they fell for each other. Lorna and Alex to my recollection were the, yeah we have powers but we want a life outside of Super Hero adventures couple, good for them but not really endearing to kids who want to read Super Hero adventures. So I felt bad about the Malice related break up but wasn't broken up over it. Lorna stans hate the idea of Alex and Lorna on the same title but for me, Lorna and Alex on the same group book might be the way to give Lorna stans what they want. With a good enough writer depicting Alex and Lorna on the same team recognizing their history but feeling that they work best as friends. If one of them is in danger the other is the first to rush off to save the other might not be Maddy's favorite thing but complicated relationships happen as you mature. In my head canon Alex and Lorna are mature enough to work on the same team, and long to see each other in healthy relationships. Lorna keeps an eye out for Alex and on Maddy but not out of jealousy as would Alex over anyone who was fortunate to date Lorna. It might cause issues initially would Maddy but eventually they can bond over it as Lorna advises Maddy about Alex's stupid mindsets. If written correctly it would end the Lorna dependent on Alex narrative and prevent future writers to do the lazy, "Hi Alex" portrayal of the character. So while I am stanning for an Alex and Maddy title, I would have no problem with Lorna being on the team too, not for messy triangle reasons but for ways to give all three characters a deeper more nuanced portrayal but that would require a very good writer to pull it off.

Honestly? Most of them I don't think actually hate Havok. It's really about what Havok represents for Polaris. And this, I agree with - because a lot of writers didn't know what to do, they just tethered Polaris to Havok as his girlfriend (and in other instances, tethered her to Magneto as his daughter), and they didn't appreciate her as an autonomous character. That's part of why Austen, quite the controversial writer, is so often a topic in the Polaris thread, because she so rarely had such a prominent, autonomous role. And her role was still so unique, even WITH Havok there. It was rare. And while I don't love what Austen did with her in those early issues... I appreciate where he took her. So it's not necessarily about hating Havok, so much as hating what Havok represents - 1960s patriarchy. This is still prevalent because Havok has so many autonomous appearances that don't require Polaris, but Polaris is still so frequently shackled to Havok. Even in Krakoan X-Factor, she's shown drunk texting Havok, but that's never a thing Havok narrates in his titles. It's about the double standard, as opposed to Havok himself.

That said, I personally have plenty of umbrage against Havok himself, LOL. As someone who WAS a (very very young) reader of X-Factor as his was being released, I look back on it with adult eyes realizing how toxic their relationship was. They were incredibly abusive (granted, mostly due to mind control), and as Havok83 and I have commiserated over, Havok was in free will and mind during multiple attempts to literally kill Polaris, who was pleading with him to hear her and stop doing horrible things, and one of these incidents resulted in her flatlining. There are also so many instances, dating back to the 70s, of him being quite a controlling man (and I'm happy to admit there are many incidents in the complete opposite, where they are a perfect match, and she's allowed to be the feminist she was introduced as).

I try to favor the positive moments for them. As I always say, I really value their relationship, just as much as I value that they are no longer in a relationship. My biggest gripe is that Polaris' appearances are so frequently referencing Havok, but never the reverse. Which is wild. His ex girlfriend across four decades (on and off) is Polaris, now a doctor, responsible for throwing Krakoa into space. She literally held presidency in Genosha while he was "dead" and Magneto was incapacitated. She was the -only- person in all of Marvel to trust that he was still alive during the Mutant X years (because his powers were connected to his suit), and didn't care that everyone thought she was crazy. She is the daughter of Magneto, one of the most prominent X-Characters of all time. And she was by his side for decades. But for whatever reason, it's always her dreaming about him.

All this said... I do ultimately agree with you. I don't know if we're READY for a title that may feature Polaris with Havok and Madelyne? But eventually I think it will be fine. I think Havok and Polaris were shown so respectfully during X of Swords, for example. Working together as longtime co-leaders, each insanely powerful on their own, and surviving something others couldn't. I loved their time in the early 00s when they weren't in a relationship, but depicted as such valuable teammates who could so easily trust one another because they'd been doing it together for so long. So I agree, it could be great (especially if Polaris gets with my dream pairing with Sunfire...), again, I don't know that we're ready for it just yet. And I also wholeheartedly agree that the right writer and artist can work wonders in this situation...

[Thirteen]

Poor Alex is the victim of ugly costumes.

Crazy talk. Alex Summers is Mutant S*x on legs...

[GoingGreen]

Poor Alex is the victim of ugly costumes.

Crazy talk. Alex Summers is Mutant S*x on legs...

It's this X-Factor lewk for me...

[Thirteen]

A new title is born HIMBO OF X

Alex Summers is the resident Himbo of the X-Men

Love em and leave em Summers...

[From The Shadows]

Crazy talk. Alex Summers is Mutant S*x on legs...

I like the tribute to Havok's Goblin Prince look in the final pic. That made me fan myself too as a teenager back then.

[K7P5V]

I loved Jae's art and Marvel lost something truly great when he went to Image comics. Also, loved PADs X-Factor.

Indeed. But when Jae Lee did return, his artwork had changed quite dramatically (IMHO):

[From The Shadows]

Indeed. But when Jae Lee did return, his artwork had changed quite dramatically (IMHO):

Oh, right I forgot. Is that from the Sentry OG (mini) series? I remember reading it when it first came out. But I haven't read it again. And yes, his art has changed quite a bit. I actually prefer his original style.

[From The Shadows]

Alex looking like a boss.

[whitecrown]

But wasn't that him going undercover with the brotherhood, like Dani did similarly, the inverted bit wasn't his fault and most of the X-Men just ignored him and didn't show any interest in him during that time, leaving him inverted for years. What X-person hasn't killed a human, so Alex is far from alone in that. Being resurrected isn't a crime, Lorna and the others have been resurrected as well.

I agree, he shouldn't be faulted for those reasons. He was an undercover agent and being inverted was hardly his fault.

Not sure, outside of Lorna, who Alex would count as his close friends...last time he formed a team most of the X-world turned their backs on him or said no...

He and Logan seemed close back in the Outback days and they got along fairly well during their UA days. Logan and Alex seemed closer as friends than Logan and Scott or Alex and Scott ever were. And he and Dazzler were jogging buddies back during the Outback era even though they don't really have any notable interactions since then.

I used to be a hardcore shipper of Alex/Lorna until I realized how toxic the pairing was, usually because Alex had wronged Lorna too many times. Alex/Maddie actually grew on me and I think they work better now. I've also liked the idea of Alex/Betsy since there was definitely some sexual tension between them which was never explored after the Siege Perilous. I'm surprised he and Jean don't have much of an on-panel relationship, besides Alex saying he likes Scott better when Jean is around. Scott, Lorna, and Maddie all being so connected to Jean is one thing plus the fact that in the Mutant X universe, Alex grew up being in love with Jean and thinking he married her before she was exposed as Maddie. That seemed to suggest that if Scott wasn't in the picture, Alex would have had feelings for Jean but could never pursue her because of his brother.

[EmeraldGladiator]

I agree, he shouldn't be faulted for those reasons. He was an undercover agent and being inverted was hardly his fault.




He and Logan seemed close back in the Outback days and they got along fairly well during their UA days. Logan and Alex seemed closer as friends than Logan and Scott or Alex and Scott ever were. And he and Dazzler were jogging buddies back during the Outback era even though they don't really have any notable interactions since then.

I used to be a hardcore shipper of Alex/Lorna until I realized how toxic the pairing was, usually because Alex had wronged Lorna too many times. Alex/Maddie actually grew on me and I think they work better now. I've also liked the idea of Alex/Betsy since there was definitely some sexual tension between them which was never explored after the Siege Perilous. I'm surprised he and Jean don't have much of an on-panel relationship, besides Alex saying he likes Scott better when Jean is around. Scott, Lorna, and Maddie all being so connected to Jean is one thing plus the fact that in the Mutant X universe, Alex grew up being in love with Jean and thinking he married her before she was exposed as Maddie. That seemed to suggest that if Scott wasn't in the picture, Alex would have had feelings for Jean but could never pursue her because of his brother.

I respectfully disagree. I think Maddy's favorite thing about Alex is he is one of the few X-Men to never carry a torch for Jean. For Alex, Maddy is his favorite red head. She isn't a stand in for Jean, for him. Mutant X Alex isn't our Alex. Funny thing about the Outback era is that there was such tension you could have seen any pairing working out.