X-Men Monday #240 – Jordan D. White Discusses ‘Fall of the House of X’ #2

[Devaishwarya]

So basically Laura's soul was split in two?

Not split in two, no. Copied. Backed up to a certain point (in her case just before she entered the Vault) and stored via Cerebra. That was the back-up they used for New Laura. It's definitely a more sci-fi take on the ideology than the usual theological understanding.

[The Thunderbird]

Not split in two, no. Copied. Backed up to a certain point (in her case just before she entered the Vault) and stored via Cerebra. That was the back-up they used for New Laura.

Ah thank you. I stand corrected.

[JB]

What I'm wondering about is will the island nation idea finally die?

Not that I didn't enjoy some aspects of Krakoa, but when you have two or three island countries fail within like a decade and a half (Genosha, Utopia, Krakoa, honorary Asteroid M); that should be a big glaring sign to mutants that they're just death traps.

Yeah I think that's very possible. Right before the Gala Doug told Xavier that sentiment was way down among the people of Krakoa. After all that's happened since I can see a lot of mutants deciding it may be best to go it alone or in smaller groups.

[ChronoRogue]

Yeah I think that's very possible. Right before the Gala Doug told Xavier that sentiment was way down among the people of Krakoa. After all that's happened since I can see a lot of mutants deciding it may be best to go it alone or in smaller groups.

I can't blame the newly resurrected mutants, but if I was an everyday mutant I know who I'd stay the heck away from in-universe. It's not their fault, but X-Men and mutant islands really are a magnet for trouble.

[Devaishwarya]

I can't blame the newly resurrected mutants, but if I was an everyday mutant I know who I'd stay the heck away from in-universe. It's not their fault, but X-Men and mutant islands really are a magnet for trouble.

Unfortunately that's how they've all been written but there could have been a different narrative. There still could be an alternative story if a writer has the cojones and the imagination.

[Uncanny X-Man]

I usually enjoy JDW'S interviews and how he often fleshes out writers/characters motivations very plainly and honestly - but his Nightcrawler answer doesn't satisfy here. I don't think it's out of the question for any character to kill during a war... but it needs to be addressed on the page when it's not something they would normally do. A few simple captions capturing Kurt's thoughts, or someone else commenting on his action, could have been satisfactory.

[Grunty]

Not split in two, no. Copied. Backed up to a certain point (in her case just before she entered the Vault) and stored via Cerebra. That was the back-up they used for New Laura. It's definitely a more sci-fi take on the ideology than the usual theological understanding.

To me this feels like the core problem of Hickman introducing an in universe "respawn machine" for the heros based on cloned bodies and digital stored memories, because whereas pure science fiction stories exploring the concept can simply disregard a metaphysical "soul" as purely esoteric/theological idea, in favor of instead exploring ideas rooted in psychology/philosophy*, the Marvel Universe is notoriously "soft" when it comes to the genres of fantasy/science fiction/mythology.

Magic is real, mythologies and folklore are real, the various kinds of afterlifes are real, there is a sapient personification of death as a concept and the metaphysical soul of living beings are real. They all exist side by side with things such as cybernetics, genetic modification, space ships, energy projection weapons, super metals, AIs, etc.

Therefor any "Altered Carbon" style approach to commonplace cloning and digital memory/personality storage can't exist in the kind of vacuum that Hickman seemingly intended the Ressurection Protocol to be perceived in. Because sooner or later the subject of the soul and the afterlife will have to be discussed and even if it gets handwaved by saying that the soul is always drawn back into a new body because of being attracted by the old memories or something, there is still the looming damocles sword of the duplicate question.

And then they allowed it to come down with Vault Laura, with seemingly no ability/willingness to actualy adress the issue or explore it in any meaningfull way, leaving an elephant in the room that will not go away anytime soon.

*For a popular recent example one could look at the video game Cyberpunk 2077 and the question of what the nature of the player character really is once the prologe ends.

I can't blame the newly resurrected mutants, but if I was an everyday mutant I know who I'd stay the heck away from in-universe. It's not their fault, but X-Men and mutant islands really are a magnet for trouble.

Considering what happend to the X-Mansion, to the point where Wolverine once suggested rebuilding it with legos, a nation run by the X-men was always a rather problematic idea.

While the reasons for it are meta, a mutant nation run by generic governments would have a 50/50 chance to be attacked at any time, while one run by the heros would have a 90% chance simply because the action often needs to come to them.

[ChronoRogue]

Considering what happend to the X-Mansion, to the point where Wolverine once suggested rebuilding it with legos, a nation run by the X-men was always a rather problematic idea.

While the reasons for it are meta, a mutant nation run by generic governments would have a 50/50 chance to be attacked at any time, while one run by the heros would have a 90% chance simply because the action often needs to come to them.

Yea, I think if they ever revisit a similar concept, what I'd love to see instead is setting up a United Nation style mutant sanctuaries, training centers and political safe havens for mutants in each respective country.

An upgraded version of what X-Corp originally was supposed to be. They would still have targets on their back, but by spreading things out and having a regional power, they can serve as their own mutant police force and political power. Not only does it makes it that much harder to wipe out the group, but narratively you don't need to do a ton of groundwork to set these up in the background. Sorta like the 50 state initiative but for mutants from all over the world.

It also helps to grow mutantdom as a truly global phenomenon with their own leaders and probably different opinions (which could create interesting conflict and conversations) about how mutants should go forward, you know without inviting a bunch of mutant terrorists to have power like with Krokoa lol. I know Hickman did it for drama, but it really did make the X-Men look extremely gullible and incompetent.

The X-Men of course can remain as the mutant supergroup that faces extremely dangerous trans-continental issues and extinction-level threats.

[Ra-El]

We need some writer brave enough to give us the answer that will resolve all of it, basically that Storm is the only "original" one left, everyone else is a clone.

[Nicoclaws]

I do hope it's the end of data pages. They were fun but they overstayed their welcome and most of them could have been a wordy expository page with art without me complaining.

What I'm wondering about is will the island nation idea finally die?

Not that I didn't enjoy some aspects of Krakoa, but when you have two or three island countries fail within like a decade and a half (Genosha, Utopia, Krakoa, honorary Asteroid M); that should be a big glaring sign to mutants that they're just death traps.

How many times has the school burned or exploded ?

[ChronoRogue]

How many times has the school burned or exploded ?

You're kinda proving my point, no regular mutant should be within 300 m of the X-Men. All the Academy X kids that have survived have layers of PTSD.

Both the mansion and the island nations attract too much bad attention, regular mutants aren't safe there, their red shirts for any hate-group to mow down.

It's better to go under the radar if possible. Morlocks, even including the Mutant Massacre, have probably had less issues over the past decades.

[Proxy]

He admits Kurt's actions don't fit anything shown before, including the FoX series a couple of months ago.

But still tries to justify the character assassination.

He's a terrible editor. I'm relieved he is almost gone.

I think this is what makes the situation so disappointing. You can get characters to a place where they do things that they wouldn't normally do; life is full of hardships that test us in ways we couldn't imagine. But why let Spurrier write a whole series about Kurt REGAINING HOPE and starting to heal after that traumatic experience and if you were just gonna go with... "he's traumatized so he's okay with killing people at the moment"?

His response actually made me angry (just when I’m starting to think of it as bad writing and moving on). They screwed up and now giving a lame excuse to try and justify the complete lack of care for who Kurt is as a person. Someone highlighted that it’s been about 49 years of Kurt’s existence and he hasn’t intentionally killed anyone. Despite the fact that he has been put through hell and has been traumatised dozens of times and has never sought revenge or took delight in causal, meaningless killing.

As pointed out, Kurt already went through a healing journey recently (not killing any one on the way) and came out of it full of hope, it just spits in the face of the ongoing story, and blatantly ignores the character as an individual, with independent thoughts, beliefs and ways of dealing with things. Instead Kurt, Logan and colossus are all treated like they’re the same hive minded murder machine (that’s got jokes).

His excuse is even worse because this isn’t a life or death battle with some big bad that you could maybe accept killing as Kurt’s last option in a war time situation. But it’s a no name thug, in a nothing fight where death was unnecessary to achieve their goal. (The panels even existing is completely pointless accept to say look Kurt’s killing!) I could accept that maybe if pushed to the brink, Kurt would kill. But no way will I ever accept that this is the situation that pushed him over the edge.

Rant over, I’m going back to trying to forget this ever happened.

[Nicoclaws]

You're kinda proving my point, no regular mutant should be within 300 m of the X-Men. All the Academy X kids that have survived have layers of PTSD.

Both the mansion and the island nations attract too much bad attention, regular mutants aren't safe there, their red shirts for any hate-group to mow down.

It's better to go under the radar if possible. Morlocks, even including the Mutant Massacre, have probably had less issues over the past decades.

Ah ok I thought you were lamenting for a return to the School sorry XD

Although "go under the radar" and Morlocks are precisely counter to the X-men Message that mutants should NOT hide.

[IN-a-Synch]

Sooooo Manifold is going to help by time traveling to help assassinate Moria ? I am guessing of course.

[Kingdom X]

Yea, I think if they ever revisit a similar concept, what I'd love to see instead is setting up a United Nation style mutant sanctuaries, training centers and political safe havens for mutants in each respective country.

An upgraded version of what X-Corp originally was supposed to be. They would still have targets on their back, but by spreading things out and having a regional power, they can serve as their own mutant police force and political power. Not only does it makes it that much harder to wipe out the group, but narratively you don't need to do a ton of groundwork to set these up in the background. Sorta like the 50 state initiative but for mutants from all over the world.

It also helps to grow mutantdom as a truly global phenomenon with their own leaders and probably different opinions (which could create interesting conflict and conversations) about how mutants should go forward, you know without inviting a bunch of mutant terrorists to have power like with Krokoa lol. I know Hickman did it for drama, but it really did make the X-Men look extremely gullible and incompetent.

The X-Men of course can remain as the mutant supergroup that faces extremely dangerous trans-continental issues and extinction-level threats.

Yeah if most mutants don’t end up on Mars after this I hope we get some combination of X-Corporation and Jean’s efforts to recognize the mutant race as a nation with full human rights in X-Men Red (Vol. 1).