How will the success of Ultimate Spider-Man (2024) impact the franchise?

[Toonstrack]

MJ is a character that appears in most Spidey media. There are multiple characters in the present run that have never appeared in other media. Regardless, you can print multiple Spider-titles (which they already do) to achieve this and attract different audiences. New readers that would be "turned off" by a marriage would also likely be turned off by a sprawling continuity. The people most interested in the marriage seem to be most interested in it because of the continuity. So it makes sense to print the marriage in a continuity dense book and keep an unmarried Spidey for a continuity-lite book.

I'm any case, there's been at least two decades of "synergizing" and maintaining status quos that hasn't really done much (if anything) to help a dwindling market. So I'm not convinced that is the winning strategy.



I don't think that's necessarily true either. Other media doesn't seem to treat 616 as gospel. Most do their own thing and draw inspiration from a variety of elements across au comics and film/television adaptations. Just as you can have teenage and married Peter Parker adaptations when the character is neither in present 616. Spidey can be a variety of things and a variety of ages across media. In an era where the multiverse is mainstream, audiences are savvy enough to appreciate different interpretations of a character.

The people most interested in continuity are the vast minority of spidey fans though. And marvel still is clearly interested in non comic spidey fans, and how they view the comics. Remember that list leaked that wss basically a chart on what Peter Parker could not be shown doing?

Thats all due to public image. You're never gonna explicitly see 616 Peter smoke weed. He probably does, let's be honest, but you aren't going to see him shown doing that. These all relate to how the character is perceived by the wider audience and a lot of popular characters have this concept. An easy example is the no kill rule for batman. It didn't even start out as a written thing, it just stuck over time.

When you change a characters public image eventually that new one becomes the default. It may take decades bit it happens. I think marvel realzied that if they stick with this marriage long enough that becomes the default public image for spider man. A married man. They ahd a decision to make, if this is the default they want to promote for stories for the foreseeable future, or do they want kids who aren't even born yet to view spidey as a young guy just getting his start? They picked the latter.

Theres a reason no one really asks for any other marvel hero to settle down in this way. Primarily becayse they've never really done it. If the character was already married thats one thing. But aside from cyclops(who they dodge around with time travel shenanigans) most characters remain unmarried because thats a very permanent shift in status quo. Even characters like magneto who has basicslly been a good guy for a decade now they will keep tinging on evil because his image is that of a bad guy.

Most popular spidey media has mj that isnt gonna change. Most popular spidey media doesn't have him married tho. Even the raimi films didn't marry them and he's not even with her at the end of the final film. Spifeys public image isn't that of a family man. And there may be a time when they can shift it to that, but they certainly weren't ready to make that shift 20 years ago.

The multiverse is just now entering the public lexicon. That wasn't a thing for most people even 10 years ago unless you were already reading comics. Yes that can change things for media but were talking about 616 and I dotn see any multliverse variant overcoming 616 long term. Plus, even if it did, a married Peter itself introduces other narrative issues. Does he have kids? How long before those kids age and thus he ages?(the robin problem all over again) does mayday stay 6 years old forever?

[Spider-Tiger]

The people most interested in continuity are the vast minority of spidey fans though.

I doubt that's the case for the majority of people that actually consume Marvel comics. They haven't been attracting casual readers en masse for decades. Even with the predominance of the MCU in the film industry.

Also, doing drugs and killing people are issues of morality likely to attract negative mainstream press. Something that no business wants. Not analogous to the marriage of characters that had previously been married for 20 years (and I remember seeing that list for Sony. Marriage was not on it. Hence, Peter B. Parker.)

Yes that can change things for media but were talking about 616 and I dotn see any multliverse variant overcoming 616 long term.

It's already happened. Not only does Bendis' Ultimate get adapted just as much (if not more) than 616, but other media is basically self-referential at this point. (ie: the Raimi films of the 2000s influencing adaptations of the 2010s and 2020s.) There are more people that are likely to have watched the Spider-man movies or played Spider-man games than to have ever picked up a 616 comic. And those stories will likely continue to influence future adaptations more than stuff happening in present 616.

My point is that, in this day and age, comic books are a niche industry likely to attract a special type of consumer. Despite these characters being mega icons, the comics are an extremely small (nearly insignificant) subset of how these characters are being consumed. As an industry, it makes sense to tailor your main output around the habits of your core consumer. You want to not only maintain but potentially expand your base. Especially when there are other avenues... such as spin off and au books to try out methods to attract causals ( low investment customers.)

[Coop]

But what you have to realize is in the grand scheme of things that isnt significant because this character is going to exist in 50 years, and his books will still be published snd he will still be fighting green goblin and what not. The majority of people reading him THEN aren't even alive now, but marvel wants them to picture spider manthe same way i did as a kid decades ago. A young man, down on his luck and trying his best.
Compare this to say Reed Richard's who has pretty much always been attached to sue from day 1. Thats his image. Middle aged married man, hes held that spot the whole time. If they did a Reed Richard's that is single and going through spideys phase no one would find t recognizable in the larger audience.

Again, there's no easy solution. Dc is going to face this problem too; do we keep the Robins all kids or do we age them up? When you age them up batman has to be aged up. Do we add another new Robin? Do we retire Bruce? I dont have the answer , but I can tell you this isn't a problem nova is facing any time soon. Most marvel characters aren't.

Reed Richards. Who was not married with kids and now is married with kids. And I highly doubt that those kids will go away and the near or distant future. They will be an intrinsic part of the Fantastic Four.

The reason the Spider-Man marriage is gone is because a particular batch of people had a vendetta against it. They felt that it shouldn't have happened and used their positions to force through a really bad story that resulted in a messy undoing of the marriage.

I just don't agree with any of your points and I don't think that they are really relevant to why Spider-Man has to be single or why Spider-Man needs to not change at all. You say stuff like "but what you have to realize" like you're coming with full wisdom that people are just oblivious to. But you're just expressing your stance the same as anyone else. What you're saying is simply not the objective truth. Spider-Man lasted for a long time married. And create a lot of fans that are still lingering and likely supporting Ultimate Spider-Man today.

There's nothing to say that 50 years from now a married Spider-Man would be more or less successful than this current bum version that we have now. Unless you're from the future and you can enlighten us all. And if that's the case I'd prefer some lotto numbers then what Spider-Man's relationship status is

Plenty of us view the pinnacle of Spider-Man comics the ones that made us fans the ones that are the reason we're here buying Spider-Man stuff as the married era.

Eventually the people in charge will be gone and the people who value a different era of stories will be in charge. And you can bet they will inflict their will just like the previous era did.

I also don't think that $15.99 15 page comic books are really going to be viable in 50 years. So much will be very very different in the landscape then.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

You're never gonna explicitly see 616 Peter smoke weed. He probably does, let's be honest, but you aren't going to see him shown doing that.

You may just be my favorite pro-OMD person.

[Garlador]

I've said this before but I think marvel wants anyone who watches or consumes most spider man media to be able to open any spidey comic on the shelves and be completely caught up. Thats an image thing.where splitting the narrative too far from the accepted image can be a hindrence. For example, a kid playing sonic heroes goes to the comics and finds out that sonic has a wife and kids and is friends with a whole swatch of characters that never showed up in the games would be jarring to say the least.

There is an irony here that my daughter loved Mayday in Spider-Verse and asked me to read her comics with baby Mayday in them. This honestly kickstarted my deeper dive back into Spider-Man comics because I was very much out of the loop and my local shop told me, sorry, there's absolutely nothing with Spider-Dad out there at the time.

Meanwhile, many who did watch the movies and picked up a book were very confused to find Mary Jane living with some doofus with two other kids with a magic watch telling Peter to get lost and kick rocks. That certainly isn't what most casual fans of the character fresh off the movies, games, and cartoons would be remotely caught up with or familiar with. If anything, it's alienating, and a reason the book hasn't exactly grown in readership beyond its die-hard supporters. Honestly, one thing I keep hearing about Hickman's USM is that despite all its changes, it FEELS more familiar in tone and character to traditional Spider-Man than the 616 right now.

Compare this to say Reed Richard's who has pretty much always been attached to sue from day 1. Thats his image. Middle aged married man, hes held that spot the whole time. If they did a Reed Richard's that is single and going through spideys phase no one would find t recognizable in the larger audience.

Reed was single and unmarried at the start. Out of the FOUR movies made with the Fantastic Four, Reed and Sue have started every one of them unmarried. In fact, there's a weird bit of irony here that Peter Parker has actually been married in more theatrical movies than Reed Richards has at the outset, and he beat Reed to the punch with his kid showing up in a movie too.

[Lifetap]

I would say that as stated the public largely sees the Peter + MJ romance as set in stone. It is basically the expectation and default of the characters in just about every piece of media they appear in (except comics). And although in the real world there is a big difference between married and dating, from a story perspective they would probably hit a lot of the same notes, I would say the only real expectation from a story perspective I would think that marriage vs dating would influence would be kids vs no kids as people would see that as the next step after a marriage.

I think a lot of the marriage fans would not be completely satisfied, but still largely content if they had them in a relationship even if it wasn't a marriage, but Marvel seems to be so focused on the inevitable path that would lead that they seem to be scared of taking any step back towards that path. I mean if the next writer after Wells got them back together, nothing says they would have to be married anytime soon.

[godisawesome]

I think I’d have to add this to the discussion - the popularity and proliferation of high school Spider-Man alongside the continued appearances of older married Spider-man might have seriously altered the “eternal” view of Spidey.

If you want a Spidey who’s “young,” youthful, a “kid,” etc... then are you going to show a guy who graduated college? Or are you going to show a kid who in high school or just reaching college age?

Similarly, if you want a Spidey who’s post-college, even if he’s still something of a young adult... then are you looking forward to that dude being an unlucky single guy? Or has comics, games, tv shows, and movies now prepared you to think that Spidey is automatically going to have a de-facto “supreme love interest”/wife?

I genuinely think the audience has started to have (the first) Ultimate Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, and the MCU Spider-Man’s idea of “young” Peter as a high schooler and teenager replace the 70’s-to-80’s idea of “young” Peter being a college student or graduate who’s single, with a post-college Peter always expected to have MJ eventually become his confidante and monogamous life-partner.

The College and post-College single days have slowly become a clear transitional period in pop culture, rather than his “prime” or “classic” form. Even the first two Sony movie series and the classic 90s cartoon set in his college years have inadvertently helped with that, since their finite timelines meant that they either had to approach major changes in Peter’s personal life, or risk making the audience get sick of their repetitions in those areas (Spider-Man 3.)

Now, don’t get me wrong; I definitely see how high school Peter’s resurgence and rise in importance to pop culture has reinforced the idea of him as a young, single unlucky dude... but by the same token, that also leads to people expecting him to grow into an adult in most successful variation son his story, with the next “oasis of stability” being him married as a snarky but experienced hero.

It’s a sort of contradictory trick to the franchise that Marvel editorial probably hates, but smart movie makers and cartoon creators like - a successful Spider-Man is expected to start as “unlucky youth personified”, but hang around their too long, and the audience will get bored or irritated, and expect change.

That’s part of the reason the next MCU entry is so interesting - if they do bring Zendaya back, you can probably bet that the storyline will have her MJ rediscover who Peter is, use the drama from her anger at having his promise to her broken about reconnecting to fuel some turmoil... but likely have them emerge as an even more fiercely connected couple at the end of it. Hell, I wouldn’t be shocked if some of Marvel editorial staff are personally sort of hoping Zendaya and Holland break up, since that might prevent MCU Spidey from having a brutally short existence at their preferred “classic” status quo for him as single and unlucky, even if the MCU version remained unlucky in everything else but love.

[Jman27]

Hell, I wouldn’t be shocked if some of Marvel editorial staff are personally sort of hoping Zendaya and Holland break up, since that might prevent MCU Spidey from having a brutally short existence at their preferred “classic” status quo for him as single and unlucky, even if the MCU version remained unlucky in everything else but love.

this is stupid

[Coop]

I would say that as stated the public largely sees the Peter + MJ romance as set in stone. It is basically the expectation and default of the characters in just about every piece of media they appear in (except comics). And although in the real world there is a big difference between married and dating, from a story perspective they would probably hit a lot of the same notes, I would say the only real expectation from a story perspective I would think that marriage vs dating would influence would be kids vs no kids as people would see that as the next step after a marriage.

I think a lot of the marriage fans would not be completely satisfied, but still largely content if they had them in a relationship even if it wasn't a marriage, but Marvel seems to be so focused on the inevitable path that would lead that they seem to be scared of taking any step back towards that path. I mean if the next writer after Wells got them back together, nothing says they would have to be married anytime soon.

I definitely think the whiplash of the Spencer run which was in part a love letter to Peter and MJ being together to the Wells run where MJ just suddenly is with some guy and has kids has inflamed the OMD/Marriage situation to it's current state. Off the bat, that was a lot. And I can only speak for myself, but the way the story played out which in my opinion was extremely badly and not a good story at all (for me) made things even worse. So I don't know if people would take another Spencer situation knowing that the next run could just be Mary Jane gets married to Cletus Cassidy because they were trapped on a planet together and she found a fake puppy and that's just what you do I guess

And one of the major selling points of the marriage to me is that we don't have this, again speaking for myself, absolute garbage. I'm sorry but that's just how I feel about this MJ / Peter / Paul bullshit. It's just garbage. It's a nonsense story with a nonsense relationship and nonsense characters. MJ doesn't feel like MJ. The kids are literally nothing. They're not characters. They're not anything that's the story that's on the page. They're just manipulations to create a false sense of family that's lulled MJ who is trapped on a planet with no one else in this again speaking for myself, pretty gross forced relationship with Paul. And Paul is a nothing character. He's just completely irrelevant to the run as far as his personality and his characterization. He's just there to be an obstacle to Peter and MJ.

In interview Wells has said he thought a story of two people who wanted to be together but couldn't was more interesting than two people who wanted to be together being together. For my money this run has not delivered on that. This is not interesting. It's annoying. He's failed in every capacity to make the drama between Peter, Paul, and MJ something I would like to spend money on and continue to read and am invested in. I just follow along with the spoilers so I can laugh at whatever stupid way they get rid of Paul And know when he's (Wells) is leaving so I know when it's going to be worth checking the book out for something more than a laugh.

But to my larger point this is just poured gasoline on embers. I think you're totally right, a lot of people would be content if they had just continued the relationship that Spencer repaired.

But they chose to go this way, and unless your head is so far up your ass it's in another universe they had to know this would be the reaction from a sizable and vocal part of the audience. They had to know that people wouldn't actually like Paul. They had to know people wouldn't be like oh what a great development for Mary Jane, that she's with some dude she was trapped with on another universe and forced into some pseudo family unit because the bad guy manipulated her into thinking she was caring for actual children.

And unfortunately (speak for me again) they've made money off of it. The run is successful when compared to its competition for comic book readers dollars. And that's what matters. Not the quality of the story. Not the art. Nothing matters at all except money. So I wouldn't expect anything different going forward. The audience be it the readers enjoying this or speculators or collectors has taught them that this makes a successful book. And there's never going to be a way to differentiate what's what's and what's making the book successful. All that matters is that it's making money in comparison to its contemporaries.

Does the massive success of Ultimate Spider-Man change the equation? I guess we'll see. I guess we'll also see how that book goes and if the marriage is going to play a bigger role in it. Because as much as I love the book Peter being a father has played more into it than Peter being married to Mary Jane who is thus far not really been given much attention.

Personally I think a comic book that undid one more day would be record-breaking and would make ultimate Spider-Man sales look like small potatoes. But that's short-term gain, whether they could parlay that into long-term success that sustainable who's to say.

For my money I'm going to continue to support Ultimate Spider-Man to the highest degree that I can. Which means multiple variants per month. Because I prefer the type of story that Hickman tells. Stories that are additive and not destructive. There's a great interview where he talks about this at the beginning of powers of X/house of X about how stories. That just blow up and tear down the things people love aren't as popular in his opinion as they used to be. And that's how I feel about this run and Spider-Man under Nick Lowe and Wells in general. It's destructive and not additive. So I'm not going to give them my money, Because that's the only thing they value

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I genuinely think the audience has started to have (the first) Ultimate Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, and the MCU Spider-Man’s idea of “young” Peter as a high schooler and teenager replace the 70’s-to-80’s idea of “young” Peter being a college student or graduate who’s single, with a post-college Peter always expected to have MJ eventually become his confidante and monogamous life-partner.

I noticed this too.

Spider-Man history now seems to be divided by general audiences into the "teen years" [where Peter is in high school or very early in college (so 15-19) and is dating Gwen], and the "marriage years" [where Peter is 25+ plus and other love interests not named MJ are an afterthought]. Everything else is viewed as kinda a transition period.

Like, there were people who argued that Peter being 23 and separated from MJ in the first Insomniac game was the game deviating from OMD, but that's literally the Stern status quo of the early 80s - the same status quo Wizard magazine used to argue in favor of undoing the marriage.

Miles Morales, Kamala Khan and the FF's kids becoming team members contribute to this too. They contribute by just existing in the same universe. Imagine doing a "young inexperienced Batman" story where Dick is already Nightwing in-universe. You'll always be able to do it as long as Dick is still Robin, even if he's been Robin "for a while" (code for "whatever time the writer decides"), but once he is Nightwing you crossed a line that can't be uncrossed.

Honestly, for all the crap shared universes get from some people, it's part of what's always been protecting Peter from OMD going all the way. You would literally do damage to the entire Marvel universe if only Peter is regressed to a teenager (stuff like the iconic Spidey/Torch bromance would be gone and many more).

[Frontier]

I noticed this too.

Spider-Man history now seems to be divided by general audiences into the "teen years" [where Peter is in high school or very early in college (so 15-19) and is dating Gwen], and the "marriage years" [where Peter is 25+ plus and other love interests not named MJ are an afterthought]. Everything else is viewed as kinda a transition period.

Like, there were people who argued that Peter being 23 and separated from MJ in the first Insomniac game was the game deviating from OMD, but that's literally the Stern status quo of the early 80s - the same status quo Wizard magazine used to argue in favor of undoing the marriage.

Miles Morales, Kamala Khan and the FF's kids becoming team members contribute to this too. They contribute by just existing in the same universe. Imagine doing a "young inexperienced Batman" story where Dick is already Nightwing in-universe. You'll always be able to do it as long as Dick is still Robin, even if he's been Robin "for a while" (code for "whatever time the writer decides"), but once he is Nightwing you crossed a line that can't be uncrossed.

Honestly, for all the crap shared universes get from some people, it's part of what's always been protecting Peter from OMD going all the way. You would literally do damage to the entire Marvel universe if only Peter is regressed to a teenager (stuff like the iconic Spidey/Torch bromance would be gone and many more).

It's kind of hilarious the amount of adaptions that have made Peter age-appropriate with teen heroes he's way older than in the comics.

[Toonstrack]

I doubt that's the case for the majority of people that actually consume Marvel comics. They haven't been attracting casual readers en masse for decades. Even with the predominance of the MCU in the film industry.

Also, doing drugs and killing people are issues of morality likely to attract negative mainstream press. Something that no business wants. Not analogous to the marriage of characters that had previously been married for 20 years (and I remember seeing that list for Sony. Marriage was not on it. Hence, Peter B. Parker.)



It's already happened. Not only does Bendis' Ultimate get adapted just as much (if not more) than 616, but other media is basically self-referential at this point. (ie: the Raimi films of the 2000s influencing adaptations of the 2010s and 2020s.) There are more people that are likely to have watched the Spider-man movies or played Spider-man games than to have ever picked up a 616 comic. And those stories will likely continue to influence future adaptations more than stuff happening in present 616.

My point is that, in this day and age, comic books are a niche industry likely to attract a special type of consumer. Despite these characters being mega icons, the comics are an extremely small (nearly insignificant) subset of how these characters are being consumed. As an industry, it makes sense to tailor your main output around the habits of your core consumer. You want to not only maintain but potentially expand your base. Especially when there are other avenues... such as spin off and au books to try out methods to attract causals ( low investment customers.)

Marriage ISNT on that list, and I never said they will never marry him, but him settling down and actively changing his role to that of a family man goes a step further. I think with USM its pretty clear they arent against marrying Peter but they arent gonna do it any time soon in 616. Peter B isn't 616 either, hes an amalgam of various versions(and he acts like a goofball just the same as current 616 spidey anyway) its not like they write him as a matured family man lol. Hes a clutch.

Im well aware that media has become self referential which is why those adaptations that themselves pull generally from 616(this INCLUDES BENDIS) have a consistent public image to stick to and a concept of who Peter is and what he does. Raimi and ASM movies both took pretty handily from 616 origins with a few aesthetic changes, ultimate changed some stuff but jts still the same basic premise. Actually the one that changed the most was the MCU, making Peter's origin a multifaceted arc itself rather than a single night of tragedy. Bur even then, none of these Peter's settled down and got married

I think you're assuming most comic readers share the same sentiment as you do, but I dont think the numbers reflect that. Omd didn't kill the character, and even this current run is outgoing most books not named batman or also spider man(transformers and a few others are doing exceedingly well too) and the book does more or less 100k each month shipping twice as often. And this is supposed to be the most offensive worst run in ages according to some people.

If there's anything to be gleaned and what marvel is seeing it isn't at all that no comic readers want unmarried Peter. So if it's not them, it has to be window shoppers and casuals. Or it could be a mix of both, but mj not being with Peter clearly isn't a deal breaker for a lot of folks. I dont think downplaying rhe importance or relevance of rhe comics is the best way to argue that the comcis should cater to an even more specified group of an already smaller base. If we were truly at that point with spider man, we'd know.

[Toonstrack]

You may just be my favorite pro-OMD person.

I wouldn't say I'm pro omd at all. I actually think as a means of undoing the marriage it didn't work and comes off knee jerk even if it wss planned. I agree with a lot of the critics of omd; if not most of them execution wise.

What I'm speaking on is the general concept of "should Peter Parker be permanrntly married to one character on 616", and I wouldn't hate it or anything if it happened(look im reading USM right alongside yall and enjoying it), but I cannot say I definitely think the answer is yes either.

That being said, if this is genuine then thanks lol but this has actually been something I think about. Like things that we just never see some characters do and if they be allowed to. Another thing is that infamous "heroes don't do that" batman thing which im not gonna get into expkciit detail with for obvious reasons. Thats kinda what I'm referring to, where these guys are very protective if perceptions their characters have even if they arent necessarily doing something "wrong". And that was for an esleworlds comedy series!

[Toonstrack]

I think I’d have to add this to the discussion - the popularity and proliferation of high school Spider-Man alongside the continued appearances of older married Spider-man might have seriously altered the “eternal” view of Spidey.

If you want a Spidey who’s “young,” youthful, a “kid,” etc... then are you going to show a guy who graduated college? Or are you going to show a kid who in high school or just reaching college age?

Similarly, if you want a Spidey who’s post-college, even if he’s still something of a young adult... then are you looking forward to that dude being an unlucky single guy? Or has comics, games, tv shows, and movies now prepared you to think that Spidey is automatically going to have a de-facto “supreme love interest”/wife?

I genuinely think the audience has started to have (the first) Ultimate Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man, and the MCU Spider-Man’s idea of “young” Peter as a high schooler and teenager replace the 70’s-to-80’s idea of “young” Peter being a college student or graduate who’s single, with a post-college Peter always expected to have MJ eventually become his confidante and monogamous life-partner.

The College and post-College single days have slowly become a clear transitional period in pop culture, rather than his “prime” or “classic” form. Even the first two Sony movie series and the classic 90s cartoon set in his college years have inadvertently helped with that, since their finite timelines meant that they either had to approach major changes in Peter’s personal life, or risk making the audience get sick of their repetitions in those areas (Spider-Man 3.)

Now, don’t get me wrong; I definitely see how high school Peter’s resurgence and rise in importance to pop culture has reinforced the idea of him as a young, single unlucky dude... but by the same token, that also leads to people expecting him to grow into an adult in most successful variation son his story, with the next “oasis of stability” being him married as a snarky but experienced hero.

It’s a sort of contradictory trick to the franchise that Marvel editorial probably hates, but smart movie makers and cartoon creators like - a successful Spider-Man is expected to start as “unlucky youth personified”, but hang around their too long, and the audience will get bored or irritated, and expect change.

That’s part of the reason the next MCU entry is so interesting - if they do bring Zendaya back, you can probably bet that the storyline will have her MJ rediscover who Peter is, use the drama from her anger at having his promise to her broken about reconnecting to fuel some turmoil... but likely have them emerge as an even more fiercely connected couple at the end of it. Hell, I wouldn’t be shocked if some of Marvel editorial staff are personally sort of hoping Zendaya and Holland break up, since that might prevent MCU Spidey from having a brutally short existence at their preferred “classic” status quo for him as single and unlucky, even if the MCU version remained unlucky in everything else but love.

I dont think they care what the actors do in their personal lives.

However I think there's a lot of good points here.

There is an expectation that Peter grows. Theres not a whole lot of characters like this because theresbnot a whole lot of characters like Peter who started where he did and grew in a chronological sense. The x men were once like that, but they've pretty much stagnated at the point they have been since the 90s. Lee cyclops and krakoa cyclops have much more in common than Lee cyclops and STAN Lee cyclops.

One character I will point to as an example of someone who had a very popular image and completely changed it is dick grayson(and basicslly Jason too but that took a minute). Thats a very permanent change for a major character in a major names ip. When people think of dick Grayson now; they think of him as nightwing. Its to the point that a lot of folks would rather just skip the robin period of dick in the movies and go straight to nightwing. Because thats the expectation now. He began as a boy wonder but the arc is he comes into his own. A lot of modern media doesn't take long to get to this point and its always treated as an inevitable thing in the characters future.

I think a lot of people have a sort of wish like that for Peter especially from the ers when he wss married. And thats completely fair. But nightwing has never eclipsed batman, or alternatively rhe model of batman and Robin. Hes maintained relevancy but I think that marvel is a lot more protective of spidey as an image and a lot less eager to change it. And as an aside when I say "young" I don't mean necessarily teenager. I think a young Peter in his mid to late 20s is kinda the sweet spot for them. And where they dont wanna go past. Whereas in current USM I dont know if he's been give an age but hes def above 35.

Edit sorry for the multiple posts sometimes the responses pile up

[Spider-Tiger]

I think you're assuming most comic readers share the same sentiment as you do, but I dont think the numbers reflect that. Omd didn't kill the character, and even this current run is outgoing most books not named batman or also spider man(transformers and a few others are doing exceedingly well too) and the book does more or less 100k each month shipping twice as often. And this is supposed to be the most offensive worst run in ages according to some people.

If there's anything to be gleaned and what marvel is seeing it isn't at all that no comic readers want unmarried Peter. So if it's not them, it has to be window shoppers and casuals. Or it could be a mix of both, but mj not being with Peter clearly isn't a deal breaker for a lot of folks. I dont think downplaying rhe importance or relevance of rhe comics is the best way to argue that the comcis should cater to an even more specified group of an already smaller base. If we were truly at that point with spider man, we'd know.

The entire comic book reading market has dwindled. ASM is doing well proportionally but proportional to a slowly sinking ship. "Illusion of change" and sticking to the "status quo" and attempting to synergize to attract new readers isn't unique to ASM as you yourself pointed out. It's a common strategy across the industry with all major characters. Look at the current x-men line. I'm saying that perhaps this strategy.. a strategy that has been commonplace for the at least the last 20 or so years...isn't a winning one for growing the readership or at least preventing further attrition.

Casuals clearly aren't the majority picking up these books. If they are, then they aren't interested enough to stick around long term per industry-wide trends.

Marvel just saw a massive decade long boon within the film industry and yet that growth is not reflected within the comics division? That, to me, is a very clear indication of mismanagement.