How will the success of Ultimate Spider-Man (2024) impact the franchise?

[Mercwmouth12]

https://tombrevoort.substack.com/p/71-sea-change

Tom Brevoort said "month after month, it continues to be our best-selling regular title".

He works for Marvel. He sees the sales figures. He knows what he's talking about.

That's a seven month old post and not something I'd call anything recent and not anywhere close to when the recent gang war event and it's tie ins started or ended

[wleakr]

That's a seven month old post and not something I'd call anything recent and not anywhere close to when the recent gang war event and it's tie ins started or ended

I guess we could go in the opposite extreme? Assume, since we don’t have accurate data, that Amazing is selling poorly and, therefore, will be cancelled pretty soon?

For me, I could care less if it’s a “top” seller as long as I’m enjoying the book.

Shouldn’t these various Ultimate threads focus more on the positivity of this book?

Seems like we can’t talk up this one without punching down on the other.

[Lee]

That's a seven month old post and not something I'd call anything recent and not anywhere close to when the recent gang war event and it's tie ins started or ended

People here were saying Amazing Spider-Man was failing 7 months ago. And 8 months ago, 13 months ago, 20 months ago. Years before that it was Superior Spider-Man that was "failing", and before that it was the Big Time run. Those posts have always been like Trump tweets - anything the poster doesn't personally like is failing.

The current run of Amazing Spider-Man ranked high on the ComicHub charts from its first issue up to the point Tom Brevoort made the comment about it being their best selling regular title. In the 7 months since then it has continued to rank high on the ComicHub charts.

The ComicHub rankings don't give the full story, but they give an approximate overview of what's selling. As Tom Brevoort confirmed, it wasn't an anomaly that Zeb Wells' Amazing Spider-Man always ranked so high, it really is selling well. It's not an anomaly that Batman is usually in the top five either.

In the January 2024 rankings Ultimate Spider-Man #1 is at the number one spot and Amazing Spider-Man #41 is in the number 3 spot.

It would be ludicrous to suggest that Ultimate Spider-Man could reach the ComicHub number one spot and be failing. I hope we can all agree on that. And then we should also be able to agree that it would be ludicrous to suggest that Amazing Spider-Man could reach the ComicHub number three spot and be failing.

I guess we could go in the opposite extreme? Assume, since we don’t have accurate data, that Amazing is selling poorly and, therefore, will be cancelled pretty soon?

For me, I could care less if it’s a “top” seller as long as I’m enjoying the book.

Shouldn’t these various Ultimate threads focus more on the positivity of this book?

Seems like we can’t talk up this one without punching down on the other.

Exactly. Amazing Spider-Man is selling very well. Ultimate Spider-Man is selling very very well, with a fantastic launch.

Whether something is selling well or selling poorly, just doing okay, or is a big fish in a small pond (numbers that would be considered low for a big publisher could be considered high for a small publisher) is all immaterial to the entertainment value one gets from the story.

[Kevinroc]

Why are some people trying to turn this around and discuss ASM? ASM does not matter in this thread. This thread is about Ultimate Spider-Man and what it means for the larger Spider-Man franchise as a whole, not just comics.

[Spider-Tiger]

Why are some people trying to turn this around and discuss ASM? ASM does not matter in this thread. This thread is about Ultimate Spider-Man and what it means for the larger Spider-Man franchise as a whole, not just comics.

Well they were arguing how Ultimate's success might influence the future of Spider-man's main ongoing, which is still an influential corner of the franchise.

IMO likely not anything in the immediate future other than perhaps a Peter and MJ reconciliation for the next run. (But I think there was a good chance of that happening regardless.)

[LordUltimus]

People here were saying Amazing Spider-Man was failing 7 months ago. And 8 months ago, 13 months ago, 20 months ago.

And none of those were when USM was out, which is what we're talking about here.

[Lee]

And none of those were when USM was out, which is what we're talking about here.

As of 3 February 2024, Amazing Spider-Man is still not failing.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...s-january-2024

[NC_Yankee]

Well they were arguing how Ultimate's success might influence the future of Spider-man's main ongoing, which is still an influential corner of the franchise.

IMO likely not anything in the immediate future other than perhaps a Peter and MJ reconciliation for the next run. (But I think there was a good chance of that happening regardless.)

One change I hope to see is Peter not being a punching bag anymore.

[Hulkout42]

I don't believe there will be any impact on the main line, if anything it will reinforce the higher ups decision that 616 Peter can and will remain where he is regardless of how it alienates readers as they watch Peter never really "win" in a way that means something. All they will do is keep giving us other versions where he is a father and husband and know that we as readers will gravitate towards them even when we still demand 616 Peter be given that which was taken from him.

[Konnik92]

As of 3 February 2024, Amazing Spider-Man is still not failing.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...s-january-2024

Funny how they are still using an outdated and limited source of sales data - a small (non-random) sample of over 125 stores from over 3,000 stores selling American comics "worldwide". Also, selling copies from publisher to retailer is one thing, while selling from retailer to a paying customer is a whole other thing.

Edit: Even Dan Slott commented on "The Ten Best Selling Comics In Comic Stores Of 2023" on the BleedingCool website that " That's a list based on 144 shops, not the entire market."

[LordUltimus]

As of 3 February 2024, Amazing Spider-Man is still not failing.

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...s-january-2024

Not what we're talking about. We're talking about USM doing so much better than ASM.

[Lee]

Not what we're talking about. We're talking about USM doing so much better than ASM.

The posts I was responding to were people saying that Amazing Spider-Man is failing or might be failing. The post of mine that you quoted and responded to was specifically about the history this forum has with saying Amazing Spider-Man was failing even when editors, writers and sales rankings have said otherwise.

Ultimate Spider-Man #1 outselling Amazing Spider-Man doesn't mean Amazing Spider-Man is failing. It means they currently have two very successful Spider-Man comics.

Funny how they are still using an outdated and limited source of sales data - a small (non-random) sample of over 125 stores from over 3,000 stores selling American comics "worldwide".

I said it doesn't account for the entire market, but it gives a general idea of what is doing well. There's every possibility that the number 17 comic on ComicHub was actually the number 14 comic overall.

What we absolutely do know is that Tom Brevoort said "month after month, [Amazing Spider-Man] continues to be our best-selling regular title". That is fact. You can't argue "Maybe Amazing Spider-Man just happens to be a best seller at stores that use ComicHub but a failure in the overall market" when Marvel's Senior Vice President of Publishing has explicitly told us otherwise.

The argument of "That was 7 months ago, that doesn't count, it could be failing now" doesn't hold water when it continues to be a top ranking title on ComicHub over those 7 months.

To argue that Amazing Spider-Man went from being Marvel's top selling regular title to a failure in just 7 months is to argue that sales just happened to remain as strong as ever at stores that use ComicHub and also just happened to take a nosedive at stores that don't use ComicHub. Does that seem even remotely likely?

Ultimate Spider-Man #1 was ComicHub's number 1 comic for January 2024. Yet I don't see anyone saying "Fake news! It could be at cancellation levels for all we know". I don't see anyone saying Ultimate Spider-Man is only selling because of variant covers. I don't see anyone saying Ultimate Spider-Man going to multiple printings is all part of some Machiavellian ruse.

I am asking that people be honest with themselves, be honest with each other, and exercise critical thinking skills.

Also, selling copies from publisher to retailer is one thing, while selling from retailer to a paying customer is a whole other thing.

The page I linked says:

These are unit and dollar sales rankings based on sales tracked at point-of-sale by the ComicHub system at stores selling American comics around the world.

"At point-of-sale" means ComicHub is tracking sales from retailers to customers.

[Kevinroc]

Please move this discussion about the sales of ASM to the sales thread.

I would like to resume the conversation about Hickman's USM and the greater impact it will have on the franchise as a whole.

(Edit: I see someone has already moved this discussion to the sales thread. I ask other posters to please continue the ASM sales discussion in the sales discussion thread.)

[TinkerSpider]

I think it's too early to tell this early into the run. The impact of the story itself is just getting started.

HOWEVER, working on the assumption the quality remains consistent and readers remain engaged, I would very much hope that it has the same significant influence on Spider-Man media as Bendis's USM did back in the day. Cartoons and movies very much chased the spirit of Bendis's work. It spawned video game adaptations, tie-ins, and was widely held as "the direction" for many future Spider-Man stories by the public and those within the Spidey Offices. And, admittedly, it was a phenomenal run that deserved to leave an impact.

However, Hickman's approach in USM captures the same spirit of the hero, just in a vastly different circumstance, and I hope future media draws for it as effectively. I would very much love to explore this world in video games and see its take on characters influence future movies and shows.

If quality remains high and the readers keep showing up at the cash register, I'm confident we'll see more and more parts of the franchise emboldened to follow the path USM2024 has carved out.

This is what I expect the impact to be. For other parts of the franchise to realize there are new, fresh story paths to take that the audience will eat up.

USM proves that marriage, family, etc. is not the end point for Peter Parker, but instead is the start of a myriad of new story possibilities. This may hopefully carry over to the films, video games, etc - and in fact the Spider-Verse films seem to have influenced Hickman as he called USM "a bit of a Peter B Parker type situation" so maybe they will feed each other.

I'm excited that the Spider-Verse films and USM have the potential to influence an expansion of Peter's adventures and world beyond the constant "coming of age" hamster wheel. Because:

A) We have Miles, Spider-Gwen, Anya, Mayday, Annie, Bailey, etc for coming of age tales

B) "Coming of age" is a dead end for a serial franchise, anyway, because the ending defines the genre - the character comes of, y'know, age - so it should never be the definining genre for a serial property

C) Acknowledging Peter's story can grow beyond "coming of age" will allow Miles, Spider-Gwen, etc, to not be trapped on the same hamster wheel as Peter when their time comes to be of age

[wleakr]

C) Acknowledging Peter's story can grow beyond "coming of age" will allow Miles, Spider-Gwen, etc, to not be trapped on the same hamster wheel as Peter when their time comes to be of age

Maybe we can even get "Spider-man Beyond", with Peter as the man in the chair!