Rise of the Powers of X #2 - Review/Spoilers

[Thundershot]

Am I the only one who thought the "vertebrae detail" looked like a nod to her rattail? This outfit looks great and also reminds me of a modern and fetish version of her Excalibur costume.

I thought the same exact thing! I miss those days… Excalibur was great until it got folded into the rest of the x-books. I loved when it did its own thing and no one bothered them.

[lefthanded]

They allude to that in the issue by saying Enigma might not want them going back to the 19th century, so it's crossed their minds. That, and the arachnid Sentinels are guarding that path along the timeline anyway.

The premise of this whole setup just gives me a headache.

Dominion and MR: "You can't beat Dominion because Dominion exists across all space and time, once formed!"
Xavier: "I'm gonna prevent Moira from setting us down a pathway that created Dominion" (even though that conflicts with the idea that it exists across all of space and time)
Dominion: ".... uh, well you're not gonna know when to change Moira so she doesn't set down that pathway" (I guess it is now retconn'd that Dominion can be prevented if you travel to the past)
Xavier: "Well, I'm gonna use Dead X-men to find out when."
Dominion: ".... uh, well, she can be repowered!! So haha, Dominion can still happen"
Doug: "Well, why don't we just kill her as a baby?"
Xavier: "Aside from the ethics, I have to confirm when her power activates and not just accept age 13" (I accept that this is a fake plan to trick Rachel and Rasputin into helping, but the plan makes no sense as it is hugely risky. It risks exposure to Dominion being aware of them)
[No one who follows up this line of thinking]: "Why don't we just kill the parents or prevent them from falling in love and having Moira?" (this seems like a much easier plan without needing to confirm Moira's biological mind)
Dominion: "Well, I can apparently do something in the Present/Future by chatting with Moira, that will guarantee that Xavier will fail in the past." [apparently, yet another plan that requires, for some reason, Xavier not killing Moira's parents or traveling far enough to the past to prevent Sinister from existing].

There are superficial reasons for why something can't happen and why things have to happen a certain way, but it doesn't hold up to much scrutiny. I will accept that "Sentinels prevent time travel, so you only have one shot", but it doesn't explain why that one shot can't be something else (like telepathically preventing Moira's parents from falling in love).

Somehow Dominion can be prevented by altering Moira's past, but apparently not Sinister's past (ie. preventing Sinister from creating Enigma as opposed to preventing Enigma from coming online]. And for some reason, even though Xavier is planning to kill Moira and not talk to her [like the rest of the X-men think], it matters that he kills her at a specific time period she is alive as opposed to just preventing Moira from existing to begin with.

[DurararaFTW]

Killing her at 13 changes all of history from that point on, it is already a huge ethical quandry. You kill the likes of Legion and Proteus as well, Wolfsbane's life and so on. Killing her at 0 or her parents destroys 13 more years of history, just for the sake of pointless revenge.

And Moira may have falsified her birth records before ever approaching Xavier too. The mission would remain the same, ensure that the information is sound before spending their one change to get past the Arachno Sentinels and go back in time. Once the data is confirmed, going to a farm and shooting a 13 year old versus going to the hospital and shooting a baby isn't in itself more difficult.

And we don't know what Plan 3 is. It may indeed be going back even further.

[cranger]

The whole thing is full of holes, like why try to defend it if the story does not even make an attempt. I can enjoy it for what it is but I am not going to pretend any of it makes sense at all.

[Triniking1234]

Somehow Dominion can be prevented by altering Moira's past, but apparently not Sinister's past (ie. preventing Sinister from creating Enigma as opposed to preventing Enigma from coming online]. And for some reason, even though Xavier is planning to kill Moira and not talk to her [like the rest of the X-men think], it matters that he kills her at a specific time period she is alive as opposed to just preventing Moira from existing to begin with.

Which I honestly still don't get. I guess Enigma couldn't figure out how to achieve Dominion without Sinister messing with time with Moira clones but eliminating either one should produce the result Xavier wants.

Killing her at 13 changes all of history from that point on, it is already a huge ethical quandry. You kill the likes of Legion and Proteus as well, Wolfsbane's life and so on. Killing her at 0 or her parents destroys 13 more years of history, just for the sake of pointless revenge.

And Moira may have falsified her birth records before ever approaching Xavier too. The mission would remain the same, ensure that the information is sound before spending their one change to get past the Arachno Sentinels and go back in time. Once the data is confirmed, going to a farm and shooting a 13 year old versus going to the hospital and shooting a baby isn't in itself more difficult.

And we don't know what Plan 3 is. It may indeed be going back even further.

They should shoot the 13 yo since they're bigger targets.

[lefthanded]

Killing her at 13 changes all of history from that point on, it is already a huge ethical quandry. You kill the likes of Legion and Proteus as well, Wolfsbane's life and so on. Killing her at 0 or her parents destroys 13 more years of history, just for the sake of pointless revenge.

And Moira may have falsified her birth records before ever approaching Xavier too. The mission would remain the same, ensure that the information is sound before spending their one change to get past the Arachno Sentinels and go back in time. Once the data is confirmed, going to a farm and shooting a 13 year old versus going to the hospital and shooting a baby isn't in itself more difficult.

And we don't know what Plan 3 is. It may indeed be going back even further.

I agree there is no difference between the actual operation of time travel to age 0 vs age 13. What I am quibbling with is why these are the only potential viable Plan 2 options (Plan 1 being having Rasputin prevent Stasis from contributing Enigma coming online), when all of time travel is available (at least once, due to the arachno sentinels).

If Plan 2 is time travel to the past with one shot, then there are still multiple viable thoughts.

Plan A: Revive the Dead X-men, have Rachel send them to multiple timelines/universes to find a biological Moira, travel to pre-power Moira, kill her and prevent Dominion. Xavier happy.

Plan B: Travel to Moira as a baby in the hospital, kill her and prevent Dominion. Xavier and SinisDoug are happy.

Plan C: Travel to when Moira's mom is a teenager, telepathically prevent her from being attracted to romantic or physical entanglements with Scottish men, Moira's mom never gets together with Moira's Dad, Moira never happens. Xavier is happy.

Plan D: Travel to before Sinister met his wife (Mother Righteous could be telepathically mind read to get a sense as to when that time period is) and eliminate Sinister. Xavier is happy. SinisDoug is not happy.

Yes, plans B onward change more years (at least 13 years) of the past and that does have impact. But when Xavier is already weighing all of existence vs. 13 years, the scale of +/13 years becomes negligible.

The main problem with this scenario that Gillen has created, is that it makes the reader question why other options aren't being pursued. Plan B is explicitly suggested by SinisDoug, but the reason why it is not viable is kind of handwaved away in a way that doesn't prevent Plan C and D being viable options.

[Havok83]

Killing her at 13 changes all of history from that point on, it is already a huge ethical quandry. You kill the likes of Legion and Proteus as well, Wolfsbane's life and so on. Killing her at 0 or her parents destroys 13 more years of history, just for the sake of pointless revenge.

And Moira may have falsified her birth records before ever approaching Xavier too. The mission would remain the same, ensure that the information is sound before spending their one change to get past the Arachno Sentinels and go back in time. Once the data is confirmed, going to a farm and shooting a 13 year old versus going to the hospital and shooting a baby isn't in itself more difficult.

And we don't know what Plan 3 is. It may indeed be going back even further.

This isnt about revenge. The way the stakes are set up, if the Enigma wins, life as they all no it is over so all those characters are gonna die anyway. Xavier's rationale is that he sacrifice the present day so that there is at least hope for the timeline from that earlier save point

[DurararaFTW]

This isnt about revenge. The way the stakes are set up, if the Enigma wins, life as they all no it is over so all those characters are gonna die anyway. Xavier's rationale is that he sacrifice the present day so that there is at least hope for the timeline from that earlier save point

But killing her at age 0 instead of age 13 is not easier or more practical in any way. Her story about where she was at either time could have been falsified. She isn't a superhuman capable of defending herself at either point once they do know where she is. It's just Sinister being vindictive.

As for Nathaniel Essex. If he's taken out of equation, Apocalypse would still be present and awake in the Victorian age and if he didn't have a Nathaniel Essex to approach, he'd approach someone else, enact new plans that no one other then Wolverine, Sabretooth, Mystique and Destiny will ever exist to deal with. Killing her right before the emergence of her mutant gift and killing the idea of Krakoa with her before she ever gave voice to it in this timeline at 13 is the most minimal impact on the timeline that still has certain results. If for whatever reason you only have one trip in time you can make, which inexplicably they do, that's the move to make.

[cranger]

The reason the story needs the plan to be knowing where she is right before she gains her powers is because everyone Xavier is working with is stupid enough to think he just wants to talk with her. Having the team travel back to the moment she was born would spoil the plan to kill her. This, again, is a problem because why do the readers or the characters think having a chat with a tween is going to save whatever it is that is not really clear needs to be saved.

[cranger]

The way it seems to be playing out is that the Dead X-Men achieved their initial mission of confirming the data from a pre-cyborg Moira in issue #1 and that's what Rachel is referring to. Now they have a map of her lives so I think we might see them and Xavier trying a few attempts to reach her, maybe? We should be getting the preview for Dead #2 today so maybe it'll shed more light.

Prodigy makes it sound like they can visit the dead Moira lives, and Moira seems to have found a way to move back through her dead lives as well, so that is probably what the rest of the DXM series will be dealing with.

[lefthanded]

The reason the story needs the plan to be knowing where she is right before she gains her powers is because everyone Xavier is working with is stupid enough to think he just wants to talk with her. Having the team travel back to the moment she was born would spoil the plan to kill her. This, again, is a problem because why do the readers or the characters think having a chat with a tween is going to save whatever it is that is not really clear needs to be saved.

I just reread this issue, and Rachel does mutter "This is a lot of work just to chat with teenage Moira" as she sends her Dead X-men out. So they both are stupid and aware that it is stupid.

But like I said, it is still a risky facade. Rachel points out that the Dead X-men only have 30 minutes of time before they are spotted. Xavier is risking getting discovered by Enigma before they're ready to kill Moira, just so the 'good guys' can be tricked by the 'talk to tween Moira'?

Even if Xavier needs Rachel in order to time travel to the past, he could just trick her to send Xavier to anytime from Moira age 0-13 by saying he's gonna convince her. Once she sends him back, he is free to kill Moira.

On the otherhand, if it is not really a facade and a copy of the biological mind of Moira is needed, then it would also need to be explained why preventing Moira's birth to begin with couldn't work as well.

[lefthanded]

As a side note: I reread the first issue as well, and how Doug is talking to Rasputin is pretty obvious now that we know what's up. Thats some good writing by Gillen, as he really knows how to use dialogue.

[DurararaFTW]

I just reread this issue, and Rachel does mutter "This is a lot of work just to chat with teenage Moira" as she sends her Dead X-men out. So they both are stupid and aware that it is stupid.

But like I said, it is still a risky facade. Rachel points out that the Dead X-men only have 30 minutes of time before they are spotted. Xavier is risking getting discovered by Enigma before they're ready to kill Moira, just so the 'good guys' can be tricked by the 'talk to tween Moira'?

Even if Xavier needs Rachel in order to time travel to the past, he could just trick her to send Xavier to anytime from Moira age 0-13 by saying he's gonna convince her. Once she sends him back, he is free to kill Moira.

The Dead X-Men part is not facade. He really can't trust that anything Moira revealed about her past, whether it is when and where she was when her mutation activated or what her birthdate or birthplace was. To confirm, the memories of a biological Moira are needed before a trip to the past is made.

On the otherhand, if it is not really a facade and a copy of the biological mind of Moira is needed, then it would also need to be explained why preventing Moira's birth to begin with couldn't work as well.

It would also work, just as well. Not one iota better then what they are gonna do instead though. Again, it's erasing 13 additional years of history for absolutely no reason at all other then Sinister wants to kill babies.

[Micabe]

I wonder why Marvel is suddenly giving Rachel all this alone time within the pages?


Excalibur (1988–1998)

Could it be because ever since they attached her to the hip of Betsy and punted her to Otherworld she's become all but arm-candy in search of being as relevant as she was when she had her own life (her mother and father notwithstanding) and team in England away from Xaiver and company?

-------

I just reread this issue, and Rachel does mutter "This is a lot of work just to chat with teenage Moira" as she sends her Dead X-men out. So they both are stupid and aware that it is stupid.

But like I said, it is still a risky facade. Rachel points out that the Dead X-men only have 30 minutes of time before they are spotted. Xavier is risking getting discovered by Enigma before they're ready to kill Moira, just so the 'good guys' can be tricked by the 'talk to tween Moira'?

Even if Xavier needs Rachel in order to time travel to the past, he could just trick her to send Xavier to anytime from Moira age 0-13 by saying he's gonna convince her. Once she sends him back, he is free to kill Moira.

On the otherhand, if it is not really a facade and a copy of the biological mind of Moira is needed, then it would also need to be explained why preventing Moira's birth to begin with couldn't work as well.

The Dead X-Men part is not facade. He really can't trust that anything Moira revealed about her past, whether it is when and where she was when her mutation activated or what her birthdate or birthplace was. To confirm, the memories of a biological Moira are needed before a trip to the past is made.

It would also work, just as well. Not one iota better then what they are gonna do instead though. Again, it's erasing 13 additional years of history for absolutely no reason at all other then Sinister wants to kill babies.

Wait... Wouldn't going back in time and '86ing Moira Kinross MacTaggert before her X-Gene activated destroy any chance of Kevin MacTaggert being born?

[JB]

Because her powerset is perfect for the mission as Steve Foxe has said. And with her on the cover of X-Men: Forever #2 her connection to Jean/Phoenix/WHR seems to also be important.