Namor being Aztec/Mayan in the Marvel Movie universe. Yay or Nay?

[PhantomBoom]

I'm going to be completely honest, what about Marvel Atlantis is actually interesting and unique?
The most notable things about the setting is that it's people are blue and Namor lives there, but beyond that what has been done with setting that makes it genuinely interesting and irreplaceable?
In the MCU Talokan's people are still blue and Namor still lives there, so it's practically the same thing, feels like being pressed over it is more wanting things to be comic accurate for the sake of it not because it actually leads to a better story.

Like wanting MCU Civil War to be like the comics despite how awful that event was.

[DragonsChi]

The very fact that the creator named Namor because it’s backwards for Roman, is the start why it’s notable and unique to any other character.

You’d be better off reading the old stories for yourself. Namor and the Human Torch Jim Hammond are the very beginning of the Marvel Universe. Without them there would be no Marvel, so it’s a shame that they don’t get more respect.

In saying that I totally get why some people would be miffed by that change. It didn’t break the character mind you but at this point it’s close to 90 years of history that could have gone away in 2 hour film.

[PhantomBoom]

None of that explained what about Marvel Atlantis makes it unique and irreplaceable as a setting, as you said it's existed for near 90 years but it's really only notable for three things, it's people being blue, attacking Wakanda and being the place where Namor lives, all of which were kept for Talokan in the MCU.

Even the point of Namor being Roman backwards doesn't make Marvel Atlantis unique, because Atlantis is Greek not Roman, and there's no deeper meaning to Namor's beyond Bill Everett writing Noble sounding names backwards and liking "Namor/Roman" the best.

[Oberon]

I'm going to be completely honest, what about Marvel Atlantis is actually interesting and unique?
The most notable things about the setting is that it's people are blue and Namor lives there, but beyond that what has been done with setting that makes it genuinely interesting and irreplaceable?
In the MCU Talokan's people are still blue and Namor still lives there, so it's practically the same thing, feels like being pressed over it is more wanting things to be comic accurate for the sake of it not because it actually leads to a better story.

Like wanting MCU Civil War to be like the comics despite how awful that event was.

Yeah, like Atlantis is totally boring compared to some street in NYC?

If Atlantis itself was not interesting and unique there would be absolutely NO stories or any media, fiction, games, etc

whatever - that tells the story.

Atlantis is... a metaphor. For abuse of power, mostly.
America's Sleeping Prophet, Edgar Cayce (incredibly popular, radio show etc) of the '40s felt that Americans were the reincarnated spirits/souls of Atlanteans

doomed to play out the same dreadful story of it's sinking.

So... what makes Namor and Marvel's Atlantis unique and interesting is that

it does not go with the very usual parable of Atlantis; that it's wicked leaders contributed to it's sinking.

Atlantis is intersting, unique and irreplaceable because it THRIVES after it's sinking.

Now if only the writers and creators would go this way.

[Albert1981]

Wasn't a huge fan of Wakanda Forever, but I definitely had no problem with Namor's introduction.

[Nomads1]

Big NAY!

Peace

[PhantomBoom]

Yeah, like Atlantis is totally boring compared to some street in NYC?

If Atlantis itself was not interesting and unique there would be absolutely NO stories or any media, fiction, games, etc

whatever - that tells the story.

Atlantis is... a metaphor. For abuse of power, mostly.
America's Sleeping Prophet, Edgar Cayce (incredibly popular, radio show etc) of the '40s felt that Americans were the reincarnated spirits/souls of Atlanteans

doomed to play out the same dreadful story of it's sinking.

So... what makes Namor and Marvel's Atlantis unique and interesting is that

it does not go with the very usual parable of Atlantis; that it's wicked leaders contributed to it's sinking.

Atlantis is intersting, unique and irreplaceable because it THRIVES after it's sinking.

Now if only the writers and creators would go this way.

If we're being honest any random street in New York is more interesting than Marvel Atlantis.

At least on a random NYC street Spider-Man is probably there webbing up some crooks, or Daredevil is there beating someone up, or the Avengers are there stopping Earth's destruction...
Meanwhile there tends to never really be anything going on with Marvel Atlantis unless Namor decided he hates the surface again that week.

Let's remember a few years ago, when the Squadron Supreme murdered Namor, we really didn't hear too much about what Atlantis was doing with it's king dead before he came back to life.

Meanwhile whenever Thor dies we'll still know what's happening on Asgard and how they're taking his death.

[Doombot]

If we're being honest any random street in New York is more interesting than Marvel Atlantis.

At least on a random NYC street Spider-Man is probably there webbing up some crooks, or Daredevil is there beating someone up, or the Avengers are there stopping Earth's destruction...
Meanwhile there tends to never really be anything going on with Marvel Atlantis unless Namor decided he hates the surface again that week.

Let's remember a few years ago, when the Squadron Supreme murdered Namor, we really didn't hear too much about what Atlantis was doing with it's king dead before he came back to life.

Meanwhile whenever Thor dies we'll still know what's happening on Asgard and how they're taking his death.

Um, why would you think that is though? Could it be that Spider-Man has like ten books while Namor has zero? Or that Thor has had a book consistently since the 60's? No one hears how Atlanteans would react to anything because there's no one writing them. The fact that Marvel allowed the Squadron Supreme to 1) even have a book when Namor doesn't, and 2) kill Namor just shows you the sorry state of Marvel's relationship or view on Namor and Atlantis for the past few, well, decades.

Marvel's Atlantis could be as interesting and unique as you wanted it to be, it's fantasy realm. If Marvel's Atlantis isn't interesting to you, then it's just not interesting to you. Not sure what else could be said to that, but it doesn't change the fact Atlantis has a long history in the 616.
MCU had a chance to expand on or even create whole cloth a modern version of Atlantis on film for longtime fans and for people just discovering Namor. Instead, they redressed it in a real world culture, wholly different from it's comic counterpart, and binned decades of previous depictions of the place and its people. They wanted so little to do with it they even changed it's name. They then took existing names like Namora and Attuma and slapped them on other characters who are most definitely not them. I mean, it was fine enough for what they did, knowing what the filmmakers goals were, but it's still not something I'd have done. Even having done it, it hasn't been very impactful for either the MCU or 616, as culturally, PB2 has been essentially forgotten already and Namor's appearance in the film didn't even get him a comicbook mini-series. If he did, I imagine fans of the film scratching their heads as 616 Namor is so different than the film version they just saw.

[Oberon]

If we're being honest any random street in New York is more interesting than Marvel Atlantis.

At least on a random NYC street Spider-Man is probably there webbing up some crooks, or Daredevil is there beating someone up, or the Avengers are there stopping Earth's destruction...
Meanwhile there tends to never really be anything going on with Marvel Atlantis unless Namor decided he hates the surface again that week.

Let's remember a few years ago, when the Squadron Supreme murdered Namor, we really didn't hear too much about what Atlantis was doing with it's king dead before he came back to life.

Meanwhile whenever Thor dies we'll still know what's happening on Asgard and how they're taking his death.

You're saying someone has to write *that* story and that is what most of the Namor fans want.

[PhantomBoom]

Um, why would you think that is though? Could it be that Spider-Man has like ten books while Namor has zero? Or that Thor has had a book consistently since the 60's? No one hears how Atlanteans would react to anything because there's no one writing them. The fact that Marvel allowed the Squadron Supreme to 1) even have a book when Namor doesn't, and 2) kill Namor just shows you the sorry state of Marvel's relationship or view on Namor and Atlantis for the past few, well, decades.

Marvel's Atlantis could be as interesting and unique as you wanted it to be, it's fantasy realm. If Marvel's Atlantis isn't interesting to you, then it's just not interesting to you. Not sure what else could be said to that, but it doesn't change the fact Atlantis has a long history in the 616.
MCU had a chance to expand on or even create whole cloth a modern version of Atlantis on film for longtime fans and for people just discovering Namor. Instead, they redressed it in a real world culture, wholly different from it's comic counterpart, and binned decades of previous depictions of the place and its people. They wanted so little to do with it they even changed it's name. They then took existing names like Namora and Attuma and slapped them on other characters who are most definitely not them. I mean, it was fine enough for what they did, knowing what the filmmakers goals were, but it's still not something I'd have done. Even having done it, it hasn't been very impactful for either the MCU or 616, as culturally, PB2 has been essentially forgotten already and Namor's appearance in the film didn't even get him a comicbook mini-series. If he did, I imagine fans of the film scratching their heads as 616 Namor is so different than the film version they just saw.

Quite literally none of that changed what I said.

Yeah Namor doesn't have a lot of solo books, which is a shame he's a great character, but at the same time Marvel has never done anything interesting or unique with Atlantis, that makes it irreplaceable, or sacred that it can't be changed.
For a setting that has existed for nearly a 100 years what is it known for beyond it's people being blue, attacking Wakanda and Namor living there?
And they kept all of that for Talokan, so it's essentially the same thing in really all the ways most people care about.

Wanting it to be Atlantis is only for the sake of being comic accurate, not because Marvel Atlantis is actually interesting or because it would lead to a better story.
Even now all you have told is it could be interesting, not that it is, but it could potentially be interesting, which is not a good thing for a setting that has existed for nearly 100 years and been around since the beginning of Marvel.

And no Wakanda Forever isn't forgotten, don't insult the movie to try and make your point.

[DragonsChi]

None of that explained what about Marvel Atlantis makes it unique and irreplaceable as a setting, as you said it's existed for near 90 years but it's really only notable for three things, it's people being blue, attacking Wakanda and being the place where Namor lives, all of which were kept for Talokan in the MCU.

Even the point of Namor being Roman backwards doesn't make Marvel Atlantis unique, because Atlantis is Greek not Roman, and there's no deeper meaning to Namor's beyond Bill Everett writing Noble sounding names backwards and liking "Namor/Roman" the best.

For the bold, you really need to read up on history. Won’t go further than that about the topic so I don’t get band or write an incredibly long history lesson on comic forum.

But the fact that his name is written backwords for Roman goes into his whole characterization. Romans were proud, noble, and warrior like people. At one point the greatest warriors to exist and merciless not only to their enemies but even in the upbringing of their children. And they actually liked those ideas.

The very fact that his Name is backwords for Roman is just the start to all of it. It defines who Namor is without even going into who is in story form.

Again, if you want to know why the character or the place is interesting, read the books for yourself. Doesn’t do you any justice by saying something isn’t interesting and you haven’t even given it a shot and it’s not worth anyone else’s time trying to explain it to you. *Shrug*

[Doombot]

Quite literally none of that changed what I said.

Yeah Namor doesn't have a lot of solo books, which is a shame he's a great character, but at the same time Marvel has never done anything interesting or unique with Atlantis, that makes it irreplaceable, or sacred that it can't be changed.
For a setting that has existed for nearly a 100 years what is it known for beyond it's people being blue, attacking Wakanda and Namor living there?
And they kept all of that for Talokan, so it's essentially the same thing in really all the ways most people care about.

Wanting it to be Atlantis is only for the sake of being comic accurate, not because Marvel Atlantis is actually interesting or because it would lead to a better story.
Even now all you have told is it could be interesting, not that it is, but it could potentially be interesting, which is not a good thing for a setting that has existed for nearly 100 years and been around since the beginning of Marvel.

And no Wakanda Forever isn't forgotten, don't insult the movie to try and make your point.

Wakanda Forever has gone out of the zeitgeist quicker than it came in. You can pretend if you want, but it's almost like it didn't even happen. Like most post Thanos MCU films. Not sure how someone can insult a film, but you're welcome to tell me how it helped Namor at all, aside from people in the media saying his name for like two weeks.

Nobody who's read any Sub-Mariner books thinks "attacking Wakanda" is anything notable for the character or the place, and it isn't even something Atlantis did. Namor did it under the influence of the Phoenix. Who are these "most people" you keep talking about, and where did you hear they'd only care about Atlanteans being blue and attacking Wakanda? I'm not sure what it is you're looking for, like I said before, if you don't find Atlantis interesting, cool, can't be helped. Do you want a list of events throughout Marvel history that happened there or something? There's some decades of events, supporting characters, villains, gods and monsters, all living, fighting and dying there. Saying it's just a place where Namor lives, could easily be said for Wakanda. Before the first film came out, if I'd never read a BP book, the only notable thing about Wakanda I'd know is that the Black Panther was from there and maybe a space rock or something.

I also never said anything about "comic accuracy" if there even is such a thing. But there's quite a big gap between that and completely replacing a place, right down to it's name. Again, for what it was in the film, it was okay, I didn't find it to be awful or anything, but ultimately I would not have chosen it and I feel it may be part of the reason Namor didn't become bigger in the MCU beyond the film.

[Felipe Silveira]

The change did not bring any benefit to the character, and besides the explanation of the name, which is horrible, just being very different from what is in the comics, it already harms the character, because what is in the comics is better.
And no, Marvel's Atlantis is not unique because its inhabitants have blue skin, they didn't even have it originally (Timely Comics times).
And much less because of the war with Wakanda.
This belongs to Wakanda, apparently. The only plot they found to make a second Black Panther film was his recent, and very short, rivalry with Atlantis. Without all the weight that exists in the comics involving AvX and Infinity.

What makes Marvel's Atlantis unique is Namor!
Invaders v02 - Dead In The Water-127.jpg

[PhantomBoom]

So essentially Marvel Atlantis as a setting isn't unique, for anything other than the fact Namor lives there.
So basically what I've said multiple times.

For the bold, you really need to read up on history. Won’t go further than that about the topic so I don’t get band or write an incredibly long history lesson on comic forum.

But the fact that his name is written backwords for Roman goes into his whole characterization. Romans were proud, noble, and warrior like people. At one point the greatest warriors to exist and merciless not only to their enemies but even in the upbringing of their children. And they actually liked those ideas.

The very fact that his Name is backwords for Roman is just the start to all of it. It defines who Namor is without even going into who is in story form.

Again, if you want to know why the character or the place is interesting, read the books for yourself. Doesn’t do you any justice by saying something isn’t interesting and you haven’t even given it a shot and it’s not worth anyone else’s time trying to explain it to you. *Shrug*

Or more likely you just can't explain what's interesting about it.
The only argument you've made for why Marvel Atlantis is that Namor's name is Roman backwards, but even then Atlantis is very famously associated with the Greeks than the romans, and as demonstrated from the page from Giant Size Super Stars, Namor was always going to be a proud, noble warrior character, the process of picking his name literally came down to writing words backwards and choosing the one they liked the best.
It is unironically not as deep as you're trying to make it sound.

Wakanda Forever has gone out of the zeitgeist quicker than it came in. You can pretend if you want, but it's almost like it didn't even happen. Like most post Thanos MCU films. Not sure how someone can insult a film, but you're welcome to tell me how it helped Namor at all, aside from people in the media saying his name for like two weeks.

Namor is now known to the wider public and considered one the best antagonists of the MCU and one of the characters people are anticipated to see return.
The fact people aren't talking about a movie constantly doesn't make it forgotten.

Nobody who's read any Sub-Mariner books thinks "attacking Wakanda" is anything notable for the character or the place, and it isn't even something Atlantis did. Namor did it under the influence of the Phoenix. Who are these "most people" you keep talking about, and where did you hear they'd only care about Atlanteans being blue and attacking Wakanda? I'm not sure what it is you're looking for, like I said before, if you don't find Atlantis interesting, cool, can't be helped. Do you want a list of events throughout Marvel history that happened there or something? There's some decades of events, supporting characters, villains, gods and monsters, all living, fighting and dying there. Saying it's just a place where Namor lives, could easily be said for Wakanda. Before the first film came out, if I'd never read a BP book, the only notable thing about Wakanda I'd know is that the Black Panther was from there and maybe a space rock or something.

And so far you've not be able to tell me a single thing, Atlantis is notable for or that most comic readers know about it.
Instead you've notably gone out of your way to refuse doing so and try degrade Wakanda, while admitting that apparently for a longtime fan of Marvel and Namor you've somehow never picked a Black Panther comic before the movie.

I also never said anything about "comic accuracy" if there even is such a thing. But there's quite a big gap between that and completely replacing a place, right down to it's name. Again, for what it was in the film, it was okay, I didn't find it to be awful or anything, but ultimately I would not have chosen it and I feel it may be part of the reason Namor didn't become bigger in the MCU beyond the film.

The film released barely two years ago, in what way should Namor be big in the MCU by this point? Should he be making cameos in other characters movies? What exactly is the character supposed to be doing?
Because I'll repeat myself it's barely been two years, your reasoning doesn't work in the least.

[DragonsChi]

So essentially Marvel Atlantis as a setting isn't unique, for anything other than the fact Namor lives there.
So basically what I've said multiple times.


Or more likely you just can't explain what's interesting about it.
The only argument you've made for why Marvel Atlantis is that Namor's name is Roman backwards, but even then Atlantis is very famously associated with the Greeks than the romans, and as demonstrated from the page from Giant Size Super Stars, Namor was always going to be a proud, noble warrior character, the process of picking his name literally came down to writing words backwards and choosing the one they liked the best.
It is unironically not as deep as you're trying to make it sound..

Again, this is an indication that you know nothing about the history. The Romans conquered the Greeks and adopted most of their culture, religion’s, and practices. Do yourself a favor and READ/STUDY it for yourself. It’s no one else’s job to educate you.