Namor being Aztec/Mayan in the Marvel Movie universe. Yay or Nay?

[Reviresco]

Namor uses a trident? I thought that was Aquaman's thing?

I'd have to check if Bill Everett ever drew Namor with a trident in the Golden Age. I don't think so. Namor normally doesn't use weapons, but the trident became a thing for Namor early in his 1960s Tales to Astonish run, where Stan Lee wrote an arc called Quest for the Trident. Namor had to find the Sacred Trident of Neptune to validate his claim to the Atlantean throne, cause those Atlanteans are the ficklest and worst 'subjects' any royal has ever had. Anyway, after that, the trident was part of Namor's regalia and also became the Atlantean weapon style.

Nah...has a trident too. He probably even had it before Aquaman. Namor has a lot super hero first. First Anti-Hero, First Royal/King Hero, First character to fly, First Underwater Hero and on goes the list.

Yeah, I think Namor rocked the trident before Aquaman ever did.

It's interesting how many things that are now identified with Aquaman were stuff that Namor had first..lol.

Well, pretty much everything Namor had first -- except having a kid. Of course, it sounds like Jason Aaron is reversing that now.

But I don't know when did Aquaman's trident become a thing?

[Reviresco]

Agreed.
Honestly I have no clue how anyone could say this is a bad adaptation that doesn't respect the character.

He does literally everything you'd want and expect Namor to do.

Well, they pretty much threw everything out about the character's origin, history, connections, and his role as a foundational character of the Marvel Universe. So yeah, that's why comic fans and some Namor fans say the MCU adaptation is a bad one. lol

But like I said before, all of Namor's history, connections and role as the seminal Marvel character were tossed out with Captain America the First Avenger, long before Wakanda Forever. Yes, WF tossed the Atlantean background and Namor's origin in exchange for a Mayan background, but it kept the essential elements of the character. He has all the same super powers, the same costume (or a close variation), and the same look (the pointy ears and the ankle wings). More importantly, they kept his personality, his duality and outsider status, his royalty, his righteous anger, his war with the surface world, his soft spot for the ladies, etc. WF picked up on the theme of an indigenous people / country fighting off and dealing with a colonial power attempting steal their resources and destroy their environment, that can describe Namor and the Atlanteans from their first appearance.

So, for me, as a Namor fan, the MCU Namor captured the essence of the character. But for other Namor fans, the MCU version doesn't work.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to be a little rude. But you've only read comics WITH Namor or you've read comics FROM Namor. Because there is a big difference.

This legitimately doesnÂ’t mean anything.

Sadly, nowadays it does. Namor in his own book is the protagonist and hero. Namor in other books is altered or exaggerated to fit other characters story. For example, if you think Namor has been pining after Susan Storm since the 60s, you've missed Namor's books, where he's married two wives and romanced several other ladies since then. You've even missed the FF story where Namor saved Susan's marriage to Reed ... twice.

[marhawkman]

I'd have to check if Bill Everett ever drew Namor with a trident in the Golden Age. I don't think so. Namor normally doesn't use weapons, but the trident became a thing for Namor early in his 1960s Tales to Astonish run, where Stan Lee wrote an arc called Quest for the Trident. Namor had to find the Sacred Trident of Neptune to validate his claim to the Atlantean throne, cause those Atlanteans are the ficklest and worst 'subjects' any royal has ever had. Anyway, after that, the trident was part of Namor's regalia and also became the Atlantean weapon style.

Well, pretty much everything Namor had first -- except having a kid. Of course, it sounds like Jason Aaron is reversing that now.

But I don't know when did Aquaman's trident become a thing?

Hmmm.... Well.. there's been 3 magic Tridents associated with Atlantis in DC... Triton's seems to be from 1997. Neptune's seems to be from 1980. Poseidon's... I'm really not sure. One character who uses it(Clea) IS a character from the 40s. But I can't find any reference indicating she actually used it in the 40s. But whether Clea used it doesn't matter much if it's not Aquaman using it.... and Clea doesn't talk to Aquaman often. It's weird. King of Atlantis, most politically important Atlantean alive.... never met the queen of Venturia....

[PhantomBoom]

Well, they pretty much threw everything out about the character's origin, history, connections, and his role as a foundational character of the Marvel Universe. So yeah, that's why comic fans and some Namor fans say the MCU adaptation is a bad one. lol

But like I said before, all of Namor's history, connections and role as the seminal Marvel character were tossed out with Captain America the First Avenger, long before Wakanda Forever. Yes, WF tossed the Atlantean background and Namor's origin in exchange for a Mayan background, but it kept the essential elements of the character. He has all the same super powers, the same costume (or a close variation), and the same look (the pointy ears and the ankle wings). More importantly, they kept his personality, his duality and outsider status, his royalty, his righteous anger, his war with the surface world, his soft spot for the ladies, etc. WF picked up on the theme of an indigenous people / country fighting off and dealing with a colonial power attempting steal their resources and destroy their environment, that can describe Namor and the Atlanteans from their first appearance.

So, for me, as a Namor fan, the MCU Namor captured the essence of the character. But for other Namor fans, the MCU version doesn't work.







Sadly, nowadays it does. Namor in his own book is the protagonist and hero. Namor in other books is altered or exaggerated to fit other characters story. For example, if you think Namor has been pining after Susan Storm since the 60s, you've missed Namor's books, where he's married two wives and romanced several other ladies since then. You've even missed the FF story where Namor saved Susan's marriage to Reed ... twice.

I think far too many people aren't concerned about whether or not the character actually feels like who should they be and if they fit into the world and story they're in, and more concerned about whether they look, act, and do the exact same things, regardless of it fits the story or not, or if it even makes sense.

As you say Namor's history just can't work in the MCU without heavily retconning stuff to fit him in and make it that he was always around, that would just result in a worse story and character for the sake of accuracy.

It seems people often forget that the word "adapt" actually means to change and alter something so that it's more suitable for different mediums and stories, not just ripping something 100% from the page and putting on the screen logic be damned.
That's how you get something like Zack Snyder's Watchman where despite keeping like 99% of the comic story and even recreating many of the comics panels in the movie it still ends up missing the point and message of the story and characters.

Like ditching Atlantis, and giving the character Mayan roots that are connected to Vibranium just made sense for this version of the character, and works for the story that's being told with him.

I mean heck recently I saw someone complaining that in X-Men 97 Cassandra Nova wasn't behind the Genosha massacre, but she just doesn't make sense for this version of the story, while the actual culprit(who I won't spoil) does make sense because they're already an existing villain who's been involved with the X-Men in this continuity.

[marhawkman]

Hmmm.... Well.. there's been 3 magic Tridents associated with Atlantis in DC... Triton's seems to be from 1997. Neptune's seems to be from 1980. Poseidon's... I'm really not sure. One character who uses it(Clea) IS a character from the 40s. But I can't find any reference indicating she actually used it in the 40s. But whether Clea used it doesn't matter much if it's not Aquaman using it.... and Clea doesn't talk to Aquaman often. It's weird. King of Atlantis, most politically important Atlantean alive.... never met the queen of Venturia....

ok found one usage of the Trident of Poseidon that dates back to 1964... but as Poseidon's weapon he used AGAINST Aquaman. However..... Arthur ends up with it in his possession at the end of the story...

[DragonsChi]

Like ditching Atlantis, and giving the character Mayan roots that are connected to Vibranium just made sense for this version of the character, and works for the story that's being told with him.
.

Most of your post is just a statement of why people should just accept the changes and like it for reasons you deem necessary. For that reason I'm not going to touch on those points.

But I did want to point out the misstep in logic here...the bold could have easily been switched out and it wouldn't have changed anything outside of it being more true to the character original history. It wasn't necessary for the story nor did it make it better.

It's just another long list of changes that the MCU has made that makes you scratch your head and go "Well ...ok".

To add, I'm pretty much neutral about the change. What I don't like however, is the fact that the people who never really take the time to read the books, to get to know the characters, nor take any real effort or cadence to make an attempt to are primarily the ones who make the most effort to insert unnecessary changes. Ignoring the fact that the thing they are trying to change has been SUCCEESFULLY around for 70 plus years as is and then are completely dumbfounded when their take does not make any money and/or fails. And then the failure of which hampers chances for that property to get other chances in the future. Not saying that will happen to Namor but its a trajectory the MCU is own unless some course correction is made.

[PhantomBoom]

Most of your post is just a statement of people should just accept the changes and like it for reasons you deem necessary. For that reason I'm not going to touch on those points.

But I did want to point out the misstep in logic here...the bold could have easily been switched out and it wouldn't have changed anything outside of it being more true to the character original history. It wasn't necessary for the story nor did it make it better.

It's just another long list of changes that the MCU has made that makes you scratch your head and go "Well ...ok".

To add, I'm pretty much neutral about the change. What I don't like however, is the fact that the people who never really take the time to read the books, to get to know the characters, nor take any real effort or cadence to make an attempt to are primarily the ones who make the most effort to insert unnecessary changes. Ignoring the fact that the thing they are trying to change has been SUCCEESFULLY around for 70 plus years as is and then are completely dumbfounded when their take does not make any money and/or fails. And then the failure of which hampers chances for that property to get other chances in the future. Not saying that will happen to Namor but its a trajectory the MCU is own unless some course correction is made.

I think it's strange how you claim to be neutral on the change of Namor and his people being Mayan in the MCU, but then most if not all of this post is just complaints about it, along with claims that MCU Namor is going to be a failure because of it.

This really had nothing to do with what I said at all.

[DragonsChi]

I think it's strange how you claim to be neutral on the change of Namor and his people being Mayan in the MCU, but then most if not all of this post is just complaints about it, along with claims that MCU Namor is going to be a failure because of it.

This really had nothing to do with what I said at all.

Actually, must of my rebuttals have been against your comments on how unimportant Namor's history is to the character himself.

The MCU is going to MCU...don't really care all that much at this point, as long as they keep it out of the books, but its the fact that you are discrediting people who have actually invested in the character opinions by referring to them as unimportant or frivolous.

[PhantomBoom]

Actually, must of my rebuttals have been against your comments on how unimportant Namor's history is to the character himself.

That is something I've never said

[DragonsChi]

That is something I've never said

Im sorry but is the below not you?

I'm going to be completely honest, what about Marvel Atlantis is actually interesting and unique?
The most notable things about the setting is that it's people are blue and Namor lives there, but beyond that what has been done with setting that makes it genuinely interesting and irreplaceable?
In the MCU Talokan's people are still blue and Namor still lives there, so it's practically the same thing, feels like being pressed over it is more wanting things to be comic accurate for the sake of it not because it actually leads to a better story.

Like wanting MCU Civil War to be like the comics despite how awful that event was.

[PhantomBoom]

Im sorry but is the below not you?

I feel like you're trying to have some kind of gotcha moment, but I still never said Namor's history is unimportant to the character.

I said Marvel Atlantis as a setting is not unique and interesting, because Marvel has never done anything to make it unique and interesting and I stand by that.

[DragonsChi]

I feel like you're trying to have some kind of gotcha moment, but I still never said Namor's history is unimportant to the character.

I said Marvel Atlantis as a setting is not unique and interesting, because Marvel has never done anything to make it unique and interesting and I stand by that.

Not trying to play gotcha at all. What you seem to be missing is that Atlantis's is imbedded into Namor as a character. From his name all the way down to his pixi ankle wings.

The reason why I keep saying that the change was a head scratcher even though Im 50/50 on it, a few times now, is because it MORE than obvious that the person who made the decision to change the setting for Namor in the movie either didn't really know anything about him, didn't really care about the character, or had their own agenda they wanted to set forth for the film.

His name is Roman backwards, he has the wings of hermes on his feet, he behaves as a Roman Royal, and yet none of that is connected at all to the cultural heritage of Atlantis? Right.

It's fine if you like the change. Its fine that you dislike Marvel's Atlantis or just don't find it interesting. But you can't say that Atlantis is uninteresting and then say that its not essential to Namor, when almost 90% of the characters development for the past 70-90 years revolved around it. It's like saying Gotham is not interesting and unessential to Batman.

[PhantomBoom]

Not trying to play gotcha at all. What you seem to be missing is that Atlantis's is imbedded into Namor as a character. From his name all the way down to his pixi ankle wings.

The reason why I keep saying that the change was a head scratcher even though Im 50/50 on it, a few times now, is because it MORE than obvious that the person who made the decision to change the setting for Namor in the movie either didn't really know anything about him, didn't really care about the character, or had their own agenda they wanted to set forth for the film.

His name is Roman backwards, he has the wings of hermes on his feet, he behaves as a Roman Royal, and yet none of that is connected at all to the cultural heritage of Atlantis? Right.

It's fine if you like the change. Its fine that you dislike Marvel's Atlantis or just don't find it interesting. But you can't say that Atlantis is uninteresting and then say that its not essential to Namor, when almost 90% of the characters development for the past 70-90 years revolved around it. It's like saying Gotham is not interesting and unessential to Batman.

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, you just proved my point.

I think far too many people aren't concerned about whether or not the character actually feels like who should they be and if they fit into the world and story they're in, and more concerned about whether they look, act, and do the exact same things, regardless of it fits the story or not, or if it even makes sense.

[DragonsChi]

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier, you just proved my point.

You missed the part where I said I actually liked some parts of the changes and was impressed in earlier post.

You continue to bring up how Atlantis is uninteresting and unimportant to the character and/or Marvel and then when you are confronted with how it's deeply connected you fan out.

Again, its cool if you are 100% on board with the change. Don't let me steal your joy, I would just do some more reading on the character and Atlantis you might be surprised.

[PhantomBoom]

You missed the part where I said I actually liked some parts of the changes and was impressed in earlier post.

Because that doesn't really mean anything to me when you've just told me you've decided the writers don't care or know about Namor because they changed him ways they thought made sense for the story they're making.

You continue to bring up how Atlantis is uninteresting and unimportant to the character and/or Marvel and then when you are confronted with how it's deeply connected you fan out.

Again, its cool if you are 100% on board with the change. Don't let me steal your joy, I would just do some more reading on the character and Atlantis you might be surprised.

Again I never said Atlantis was unimportant to Namor's character, I said as a setting it's not interesting or unique.

If you're not going to reply to anything I actually said, and keep putting words in my mouth then I'm just not going go respond to you