Namor being Aztec/Mayan in the Marvel Movie universe. Yay or Nay?

[PhantomBoom]

Again, this is an indication that you know nothing about the history. The Romans conquered the Greeks and adopted most of their culture, religion’s, and practices. Do yourself a favor and READ/STUDY it for yourself. It’s no one else’s job to educate you.

That changes nothing about what I said.

Atlantis is still widely known for being Greek mythology not Roman, and even within the mythology Atlantis sunk long before the Romans conquered the Greeks.

But regardless this is irrelevant because Namor's name doesn't have this deep meaning in it that you're trying to assign to it, Marvel themselves quite literally say the process of picking Namor's name was writing noble sounding words backwards and picking the one they liked the best.

[DragonsChi]

That changes nothing about what I said.

Atlantis is still widely known for being Greek mythology not Roman, and even within the mythology Atlantis sunk long before the Romans conquered the Greeks.

But regardless this is irrelevant because Namor's name doesn't have this deep meaning in it that you're trying to assign to it, Marvel themselves quite literally say the process of picking Namor's name was writing noble sounding words backwards and picking the one they liked the best.

The overall history of that period was an intrinsic thought when crafting Namor. The Roman’s ,before their fall, took on essentially all of the Greeks practices. It matters.

Marvel wasn’t even a thing when Bill created the character. Again, this whole part of the discussion is only showing your lack of knowledge and your lack of interest in truly learning more about history both in the comics and the real world.

You can’t even get passed his NAME on how the mythology is connected to him. Then when you get in character design…Anyone making the argument that Atlantis isn’t important to Namor’s history isn’t being serious or is speaking from a place of unknowing.

[PhantomBoom]

The overall history of that period was an intrinsic thought when crafting Namor. The Roman’s ,before their fall, took on essentially all of the Greeks practices. It matters.

Marvel wasn’t even a thing when Bill created the character. Again, this whole part of the discussion is only showing your lack of knowledge and your lack of interest in truly learning more about history both in the comics and the real world.

You can’t even get passed his NAME on how the mythology is connected to him. Then when you get in character design…Anyone making the argument that Atlantis isn’t important to Namor’s history isn’t being serious or is speaking from a place of unknowing.

If you could not put words in my mouth that would be great, I never said Atlantis wasn't important to Namor, you're are making that up.

Second no matter who you keep trying to argue it, Atlantis is widely known for being Greek mythology, most people wouldn't even think to associate it with the romans.

And it's still irrelevant because Namor's name wasn't chosen specifically for to be a reference to the Romans because of Atlantis, it was chosen because Bill Everett wrote noble sounding names backwards and liked Namor/Roman the best.

By this point you're just arguing for the sake of arguing not because you actually have a point.

[DragonsChi]

If you could not put words in my mouth that would be great, I never said Atlantis wasn't important to Namor, you're are making that up.

Second no matter who you keep trying to argue it, Atlantis is widely known for being Greek mythology, most people wouldn't even think to associate it with the romans.

And it's still irrelevant because Namor's name wasn't chosen specifically for to be a reference to the Romans because of Atlantis, it was chosen because Bill Everett wrote noble sounding names backwards and liked Namor/Roman the best.

By this point you're just arguing for the sake of arguing not because you actually have a point.

You don’t realize it but in this very statement you admitted the connection to the Greeks and how it played into the development of Namor. Doesn’t matter now with time people have forgotten or really have not been EDUCATED on it to know the connection it’s there. (Which says more about our society then anything else)

To really believe or profess that you believe that the only reason a name was chosen ,that has a connection to the context of the story/character, because it sounded noble is a terrible argument to the point of being silly.*shrug*

Out of all the names that could be chosen Bill really went for the one with a direct connection to the characters culture and history? Not only that but he based his personality and those around him (Ex: Lady Dorma, Fren, Meranon, etc) on what was believed to be how Roman “Elites” behaved ? The same Romans who would have adopted Greek culture after it was conquered ? All of it wasn’t recorded as his bases and was just a big old coincidence?

Right.

[Triniking1234]

I'm pretty sure a reader who has more in-depth knowledge of Namor can fully answer the uniqueness of Marvel's Atlantis considering it's been around since the Timely Comics and has been featured in Fantastic Four and Namor's scattered solos a lot. I don't see the point of saying Atlantis isn't unique when it has the same attributes as Wakanda: only a single race lives there and it's the hero's hometown. Both have tech exclusive to them and most of the stories that take place their is someone trying to take it over (Attuma or Killmonger) or some idiot trying to overthrow the hero cuz they don't like him in charge.

[PhantomBoom]

You don’t realize it but in this very statement you admitted the connection to the Greeks and how it played into the development of Namor. Doesn’t matter now with time people have forgotten or really have not been EDUCATED on it to know the connection it’s there. (Which says more about our society then anything else)

To really believe or profess that you believe that the only reason a name was chosen ,that has a connection to the context of the story/character, because it sounded noble is a terrible argument to the point of being silly.*shrug*

Out of all the names that could be chosen Bill really went for the one with a direct connection to the characters culture and history? Not only that but he based his personality and those around him (Ex: Lady Dorma, Fren, Meranon, etc) on what was believe Roman “Elites” behaved ? The same Romans who would have adopted Greek culture after hit was conquered ? All of it wasn’t recorded as his bases and was just a big old coincidence?

Right.

Tell me here, who I am supposed to believe when it comes to Namor's name?

This page from Giant Size Super Stars, an official source from Marvel comics, written by people who actually knew and can give insight to why Bill Everett chose the name Namor, or you whose only argument and source has been "trust me bro!"?

I'm pretty sure a reader who has more in-depth knowledge of Namor can fully answer the uniqueness of Marvel's Atlantis considering it's been around since the Timely Comics and has been featured in Fantastic Four and Namor's scattered solos a lot. I don't see the point of saying Atlantis isn't unique when it has the same attributes as Wakanda: only a single race lives there and it's the hero's hometown. Both have tech exclusive to them and most of the stories that take place their is someone trying to take it over (Attuma or Killmonger) or some idiot trying to overthrow the hero cuz they don't like him in charge.

That is quite literally the opposite of being unique.

[Triniking1234]

That is quite literally the opposite of being unique.

I'm sorry. What I was trying to say is all of the Marvel secret kingdoms follow the same formula so none of them are truly unique but Atlantis still has fans so if they want to see it in the movies, that shouldn't be a problem.

EDIT: oh nvm.

[marhawkman]

Yeah, DC and Marvel have very different takes on Atlantis.... because the DC version is less boring than Marvel's DC has an entire GoT style under-water political landscape, and several of Aquaman's villains... are Atlantean nobles who want to de-throne him! Then you have Clea, the queen of Venturia... who would rather annoy Wonder Woman. Marvel's is just... less interesting.

[Felipe Silveira]

As I said.
Marvel's Atlantis wasn't even called Atlantis originally. At the time of Timely Comics there were several cities in the North Atlantic, which even suffered a "blitz" by the Nazis.
What makes the city unique, again, is Namor. Namor and his story, which includes the history of the kingdom and its characters.
And they are much better stories than the one presented in the film. That of all the options, Namor has connections with all corners of Marvel, was the worst choice to introduce the character to the MCU.
And about the name: Bill liked Greek and Roman mythology, and Namor's name comes from Roman (as already mentioned) and the wings on his feet have an obvious reference (originally Namor didn't have wings, but the publisher thought it was strange not having one explanation for his ability to fly, Superman only jumped at that time).
When Stan Lee and Jack Kirby introduced the character to the Marvel universe in FF#4, they shared some of the character's connections with Greek and Roman mythology. Like Atlantis itself, Imperius Rex and the cult of Poseidon.
Later other things were introduced or modified. Like Seth, the great ancients.....etc.
Currently in the Marvel universe, the Atlanteans are not originally from Earth, they came from another planet (according to Invaders by Chip Zdarsky).
oh, remembering that in the Marvel universe(Comics), Namor means "Avenger Son", and Namora "Avenger Daughter".

[Felipe Silveira]

Yeah, DC and Marvel have very different takes on Atlantis.... because the DC version is less boring than Marvel's DC has an entire GoT style under-water political landscape, and several of Aquaman's villains... are Atlantean nobles who want to de-throne him! Then you have Clea, the queen of Venturia... who would rather annoy Wonder Woman. Marvel's is just... less interesting.

Everything you said, Namor already had.
Plots involving marriages and a child conceived by artificial insemination.
Villains trying to take the throne.
Namor being forced to abdicate.
Namora being a grand plan by Namor's grandfather to elevate the genes of Atlantis royalty.
Namor preferring to see Atlantis destroyed rather than sieged by the US.

[DragonsChi]

Everything you said, Namor already had.
Plots involving marriages and a child conceived by artificial insemination.
Villains trying to take the throne.
Namor being forced to abdicate.
Namora being a grand plan by Namor's grandfather to elevate the genes of Atlantis royalty.
Namor preferring to see Atlantis destroyed rather than sieged by the US.

Right, alot of the stuff (not all) Namor and his comic story points was taken/used by Aquaman down the road.

[marhawkman]

Everything you said, Namor already had.
Plots involving marriages and a child conceived by artificial insemination.
Villains trying to take the throne.
Namor being forced to abdicate.
Namora being a grand plan by Namor's grandfather to elevate the genes of Atlantis royalty.
Namor preferring to see Atlantis destroyed rather than sieged by the US.

I mean... some of that is similar...

But Namor doesn't really have direct analogues of Clea or Mera. Namora may have certain similarities, but also massive differences.

1: Mera is the mother of Arthur's children. That role gets filled by Dorma and/or Marrina.... if they show up in stories at all. It's not just "did Marvel write in stuff", but also what have they done with it? Dorma's been canonically dead since the 70s, and the last time we saw Marrina it's not shown that she's still attached to Namor. Due to being Plodex she has worse murderous rage outbursts than Wolverine. Which, ok, Mera had that Red Lantern phase, but... she was actually one of the relatively sane ones. She had Arthur jr... who... didn't get killed off until this month... ;-; Namor on the other hand... is famous for trying to seduce Susan Storm. Aquaman doesn't play the field, he's loyal to Mera.... and probably a bit scared of her since... well... she earned Atrocitus's respect. Also in one comic she actually punched out Aquaman with a water construct.

2: Clea's story is completely tangential to Aquaman's. She's related due to sharing the same world, but to my knowledge has never been seen in the same book as him. The main thing they have in common is that both can and have wielded the Trident of Poseidon. which.... given the way DC does mythology... was actually forged by Poseidon himself. And we have NO idea what Aquaman thinks of this... or HOW Clea got her hands on the Trident since Aquaman normally keeps it where he can see it.

3: you said "artificial insemination"... I get how that applies to Namor, but... Aquaman? Nope.

4: the main plot with marriages in Aquaman... is rooted in how the nobles are upset that Mera is from Xebel... which is seen as a society of outcasts and not welcomed into Atlantis proper. That's about it. In some way's it's similar to Dorma's story... except Dorma died.... and hasn't been used in the comics for RW decades. that aspect of Namor has been VERY different ever since Dorma died.

But anyways, my point is that the two are already very different, not so much which is better per se... just that DC has more stuff that's currently being used.

[Doombot]

Namor is now known to the wider public and considered one the best antagonists of the MCU and one of the characters people are anticipated to see return.
The fact people aren't talking about a movie constantly doesn't make it forgotten.

Only diehards know who anyone in WF are, while you could stop average people on the street now and ask them who Thanos or Thor or The Black Panther were and they'd know. Namor, highly doubtful. Just like most anything post Endgame.
It didn't help Namor at all, like I said, he didn't even get a book out of it. It's not as if I want it to be so, it's just how it is.

And so far you've not be able to tell me a single thing, Atlantis is notable for or that most comic readers know about it.
Instead you've notably gone out of your way to refuse doing so and try degrade Wakanda, while admitting that apparently for a longtime fan of Marvel and Namor you've somehow never picked a Black Panther comic before the movie.

I'm not listing decades of things that have happened in Marvel's Sub-Mariner or Atlantean lore, because 1) That's stupid, do you own homework, and 2) I'm quite sure you already know the answer and are just playing games. I'd be more willing to have a legitimate conversation with you if you had just come out and admitted that you like the MCU version better because you're a huge WF fan, and you don't care about the 616 version or think it's lame or whatever your issue is. It's obvious to everyone reading your posts you have some sort of chip on your shoulder about it. It's perfectly fine to say you prefer the MCU version. I mean, it's the topic of this thread.

I did not degrade Wakanda, I made the same example you did with Atlantis. A person who has not read a Sub-Mariner or Black Panther book, may not think or know there is anything interesting about the places, aside from the fact well known characters live there. Also, read what I wrote again. I said IF I had not read a Black Panther book. Not that I hadn't. I've read BP books since I was a kid, which was before even the Priest days.

I think this will be the end of my replying to you, as from what I can see with your posts to other people, it's just going to go in circles. If you actually want to know more about what makes 616 Atlantis and the Sub-Mariner interesting, come over to the Imperius Rex/Sub-Mariner thread and lots of people would probably enjoy telling you all kinds of things about it.

[DragonsChi]

Only diehards know who anyone in WF are, while you could stop average people on the street now and ask them who Thanos or Thor or The Black Panther were and they'd know. Namor, highly doubtful. Just like most anything post Endgame.
It didn't help Namor at all, like I said, he didn't even get a book out of it. It's not as if I want it to be so, it's just how it is.



I'm not listing decades of things that have happened in Marvel's Sub-Mariner or Atlantean lore, because 1) That's stupid, do you own homework, and 2) I'm quite sure you already know the answer and are just playing games. I'd be more willing to have a legitimate conversation with you if you had just come out and admitted that you like the MCU version better because you're a huge WF fan, and you don't care about the 616 version or think it's lame or whatever your issue is. It's obvious to everyone reading your posts you have some sort of chip on your shoulder about it. Its perfectly find to say you prefer the MCU version. I mean, it's the topic of this thread.

I did not degrade Wakanda, I made the same example you did with Atlantis. A person who has not read a Sub-Mariner or Black Panther book, may not think or know there is anything interesting about the places, aside from the fact well known characters live there. Also, read what I wrote again. I said IF I had not read a Black Panther book. Not that I hadn't. I've read BP books since I was a kid, which was before even the Priest days.

I think this will be the end of my replying to you, as from what I can see with your posts to other people, it's just going to go in circles. If you actually want to know more about what makes 616 Atlantis and the Sub-Mariner interesting, come over to the Imperius Rex/Sub-Mariner thread and lots of people would probably enjoy telling you all kinds of things about it.

This. X’s 100000.

Great post .

[Albert1981]

I liked the MCU's version of Namor. But I don't think the general moviegoing audience really knows who he is at this point. Marvel Studios has failed to do a good job introducing new characters lately. Even the more "peripheral" characters in the first three phases were more interesting to me. And they're gonna be introducing even MORE of them.