Cramming Superhero Movies With Superpeople Is Stupid.

[DrNewGod]

It seems inevitable. Somebody makes a flick with a superhero, some supporting cast, + 1-2 supervillains. The sequel crams as many IP characters as can conceivably fit in the 120-180-odd minute run time, sensible story be damned.

Ok. I get it. Probably better than most. Economy of scale.

Still, it usually makes for terrible movies unless (like Marvel's Infinity Saga) you created a reason over time for all these supers to be on screen at the same time that doesn't require a ridiculously rushed plot.

What prompts this rant?

A post from the Superman: Legacy table read looked like the collective cast of How The West Was Won. Without a careful build, superhero movies always suffer from character proliferation at the expense of story.

[James Cameron]

Seems a bit paranoid to me. Plenty of movies have a plethora of characters but still focus on a singular protagonist. Just because in Legacy's case some of those characters have powers shouldn't change anything. I feel that you may be overthinking it.

[choptop]

It's hit and miss just like anything else I've see bad CB movies with 1 hero init I've seen good CB movies with lots of supers init it's all about the story.

[Frobisher]

It's hit and miss just like anything else I've see bad CB movies with 1 hero init I've seen good CB movies with lots of supers init it's all about the story.

Xactly. Everything is actually about the story. The coming generation of AI-penned blockbusters will learn this hard.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

It seems inevitable. Somebody makes a flick with a superhero, some supporting cast, + 1-2 supervillains. The sequel crams as many IP characters as can conceivably fit in the 120-180-odd minute run time, sensible story be damned.

Ok. I get it. Probably better than most. Economy of scale.

Still, it usually makes for terrible movies unless (like Marvel's Infinity Saga) you created a reason over time for all these supers to be on screen at the same time that doesn't require a ridiculously rushed plot.

What prompts this rant?

A post from the Superman: Legacy table read looked like the collective cast of How The West Was Won. Without a careful build, superhero movies always suffer from character proliferation at the expense of story.

its easy hype but can backfire easily. Civil War was the only one to pull it off for me.

[Confuzzled]

Marvel's highest selling line for the longest time was X-Men. DC's was Teen Titans until enough individual members of the Batfamily and Rogue's Gallery gained name recognition to make the Batbooks an ensemble line too. When it comes to media, the Spider-Verse films are probably the best pieces of superhero cinema.

Of ALL the things wrong with the current state of superhero films, I don't think this is one.

[AnakinFlair]

It really depends on the story. You get something like Avengers or Captain America: Civil War, it works. Even The Winter Soldier worked well, as it was able to juggle all of the heroes and villains and do it well.

On the other side of the spectrum, you get something like Spider-Man 3 that was a mess. You had a director that wanted one or two of the villains, and a studio that forced him to add Venom, and it just fell apart by the end of it. Even some of the latter X-Men movies did it poorly. The Last Stand comes to mind immediately. And did Jubilee ever get a speaking line in any of the movies she was in the background in?

[Gray Lensman]

It really depends on the story. You get something like Avengers or Captain America: Civil War, it works. Even The Winter Soldier worked well, as it was able to juggle all of the heroes and villains and do it well.

On the other side of the spectrum, you get something like Spider-Man 3 that was a mess. You had a director that wanted one or two of the villains, and a studio that forced him to add Venom, and it just fell apart by the end of it. Even some of the latter X-Men movies did it poorly. The Last Stand comes to mind immediately. And did Jubilee ever get a speaking line in any of the movies she was in the background in?

One of the key differences with the Captain America films vs the later X-Men and Sony Spider-Man films is that with Cap, had already been introduced to the other principal characters, and as such there wasn't any need to waste precious time introducing us to them or providing any origin for them. All the time went to the plot rather than setup.

[AnakinFlair]

One of the key differences with the Captain America films vs the later X-Men and Sony Spider-Man films is that with Cap, had already been introduced to the other principal characters, and as such there wasn't any need to waste precious time introducing us to them or providing any origin for them. All the time went to the plot rather than setup.

Not completely. Winter Soldier introduced Falcon, and Civil War introduced both Black Panther and Zemo. And with Spider-Man, the main characters were set up in the first movie, and were already well established in the sequels. The only thing the sequels needed to do was set up the villain(s). SM2 did it well. But SM3 had to set up the symbiote, Eddie Brock, Sandman, Gwen Stacy and Captain Stacy. And you also had Harry first as New Goblin, then slightly amnesiac, then back to
goblin, then redeemed Goblin.

With the X-Men films, though, you got a bunch of new kids running around each movie. Which worked as Easter eggs if you new the comics. Otherwise, they were just anonymous mutants wandering the halls.

[Gray Lensman]

Not completely. Winter Soldier introduced Falcon, and Civil War introduced both Black Panther and Zemo. And with Spider-Man, the main characters were set up in the first movie, and were already well established in the sequels. The only thing the sequels needed to do was set up the villain(s). SM2 did it well. But SM3 had to set up the symbiote, Eddie Brock, Sandman, Gwen Stacy and Captain Stacy. And you also had Harry first as New Goblin, then slightly amnesiac, then back to
goblin, then redeemed Goblin.

With the X-Men films, though, you got a bunch of new kids running around each movie. Which worked as Easter eggs if you new the comics. Otherwise, they were just anonymous mutants wandering the halls.

Civil War managed to streamline things by effectively making the major plot serve as Black Panther's (abbreviated) origin. He required no training montages, and had no time spent learning his powers. Likewise, Zemo didn't have a villainous origin shown on screen, which helped keep things on track.

Certainly better than needing to show us how multiple villains get their powers, and then learning to use them before taking on the heroes. Villains don't always need detailed origins - Zemo gets it described in a single scene. Likewise, in Winter Soldier we aren't shown anything about Falcon's origin - he appears fully formed, an elite soldier with special gear. No time is spent developing it, but in a world where Iron Man is established, a winged flight pack is entirely believable to the audience.

The X-Men films had a different problem, repeated across multiple movies. A complete unwillingness to pull the camera away from the established stars long enough to effectively introduce the audience to the characters the plot is actually supposed to be about.

[Gaastra]

I mean lord of the rings had how many characters? Star wars also. Heck the 80s gijoe and transformers movie had over 80 characters in them each!

Police academy was full of side characters and simpsons movie had tons of them.

It's up to the script and how go it is but see no trouble having many side characters or even main characters when non hero movies do it all the time and no one cares.

[achilles]

Xactly. Everything is actually about the story. The coming generation of AI-penned blockbusters will learn this hard.

I think AI penned movies will be better than the current crop of classics like "Madame Web", or "The Marvels". Unless they were already written by AIs...

[James Cameron]

I think AI penned movies will be better than the current crop of classics like "Madame Web", or "The Marvels". Unless they were already written by AIs...

Please don't tell me you actually believe that. Unless you're joking/exaggerating..