Morph in X-Men '97 (possible spoilers)

[Colossus1980]

Eternals was going to do worse than the other movies since it's adapting a lesser known part of the Marvel Universe. I don't know what happened with The Marvels. Maybe it was just boring.

Lack of interest. No one cared. The MCU brand has some of its MUST WATCH factor.

[Username taken]

The Marvels and Eternals both received mixed to negative reviews.

They both got B cinemascores meaning paying audiences didn't like them. The last Marvel movie to get an A cinemascore and good reviews was GoTG3 and it was a massive hit.

It has nothing to do with the diversity of the cast. Barbie is probably the most progressive big budget film I've ever watched and it was a massive hit because it was well received. If The Marvels and Eternals had been better received and reviewed they would have done better. Full stop. Quality is what the general audience wants, it's only a few people on the internet complaining about diversity, those people don't reflect the real world.

[Primal Slayer]

The thing about people is that....they change with time. It is perfectly normal for someone to see themselves/admit to who they are when they get older since times change. That is Morph. Some want to think that it is black/white when....sorry but its VERY grey.

People act like coming out later in life or transitioning later in life is not a thing and that we dont have plenty of examples of it happening

We never got into Morphs psyche, how he saw himself in the OG animated series. The Morph we're getting now is someone who has looked within and come to terms with who they are.

[Username taken]

X-Men 97’ hasn’t come out. The argument, in that instance, is people are being turned off by how the promotion is being handled not by the diversity itself. The two films you mentioned never even really had a shot because it was diversity focused instead of story focused in its promotion.

Before the thread gets derailed…

In terms of Morph my argument is:

1. The change was unnecessary when other characters exist or new characters could be added in. It boarders on narcism to believe that everyone should be happy/fine with an intrinsic change to character that other people have know years as another way.

2. If they were going to make the change they should not have gone out of their way to “promote” something that needs no promotion. Erg…”cool, a binary character is in the show. Now when and how are the X-Men going to overcome Magneto?” . They should have just let the show aired. Now, if it keeps up, the audience will be split which could lead to its cancellation.

Edit:
Forgot this one

3. I personally find it weird/potentially offensive that “diverse” characters are being added (in most cases not even OG part of their characters) to shapeshifters who true forms either look like monsters/“demonic” . To which I am assumed suppose to be happy with when characters like Black Lighting, Northstar, etc exist.

Are you referring to animated Morph? They barely appeared in the original series.

I think there's actually a lot they can do with that particular character because we aren't that familiar with them.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

lol

Nobody’s walking around door to door handing out “Did you know Morph is nonbinary!?” pamphlets, honey.

It was mentioned in an interview. About the show. To try and get interest. In the show. And the sh!t stirrers went wild.

[DragonsChi]

]Are you referring to animated Morph? They barely appeared in the original series.

People are saying this as if it’s a “Gotcha”. But it isn’t.

The primary , “long running”, characterization of Morph we have ever gotten is Exiles Morph. Who by all accounts was very straight/cis.

X-Men 97 Morph is based in a time period where terminology such as Non-Binary barely existed at all.

Ergo, the majority of people who know that character have every right as to question “what is going on and why it is going on” and then from there, after taking a moment and go “ to much drama for me I’m out”.

Again, It be nice if those people would just give it a shot…but can I blame them? A cartoon that was meant to sell toys and entertain children while they ate Saturday morning cereal, is now in the middle of some unnecessary controversy. When it be simpler for the whoever outed Morph to keep there mouth shut until the show aired, instead of trying to impress people or feel good about themselves.

[80sbaby]

lol

Nobody’s walking around door to door handing out “Did you know Morph is nonbinary!?” pamphlets, honey.

It was mentioned in an interview. About the show. To try and get interest. In the show. And the sh!t stirrers went wild.

Exactly this. When people complain about "promoting diversity" and the like they're really saying "stay out of sight." Marvel didn't make a big deal out of Morph bring NB, the people against it have been.

[80sbaby]

I don't understand your argument, and I say that genuinely. The Eternals being racially diverse didn't come up in the movie at all, because they're androids. The Marvels being women didn't come up in the movie at all, and the promo focused on the three of them working together because that was the point...? Half of Marvel's promotional material for any given MCU product at this point involves "Look at these characters from other stories being in the same story, together!" They just happened to be 3 female character this time which was enough to get the Social Injustice Warriors in a tizzy.

Was it pandering to white men when Hawkeye showed up in Thor? Was it pandering to white men when Iron Man showed up in Captain America? Was it pandering to white men during Phase 1 when 83% of our primary characters were white males? I always find it interesting that whenever anyone who's -not- a straight white male shows up, accusations of pandering abound, but the Avengers v.1 can be 100% white and 85% male and nobody considers that to be an agenda. Do straight white people not have an identity?

You're never going to get an honest response to this post, as an fyi.

[Username taken]

People are saying this as if it’s a “Gotcha”. But it isn’t.

The primary , “long running”, characterization of Morph we have ever gotten is Exiles Morph. Who by all accounts was very straight/cis.

X-Men 97 Morph is based in a time period where terminology such as Non-Binary barely existed at all.

Ergo, the majority of people who know that character have every right as to question “what is going on and why it is going on” and then from there, after taking a moment and go “ to much drama for me I’m out”.

Again, It be nice if those people would just give it a shot…but can I blame them? A cartoon that was meant to sell toys and entertain children while they ate Saturday morning cereal, is now in the middle of some unnecessary controversy. When it be simpler for the whoever outed Morph to keep there mouth shut until the show aired, instead of trying to impress people or feel good about themselves.

I could understand comic Morph attracting a little more attention, but the animated version barely appeared in the original series.

I also don't think it's a bad thing the interviews mentioned that Morph is going non-binary now. I think it's important that non-binary young people that watch it would be happy with the representation (even if it's not perfect).

[DragonsChi]

I could understand comic Morph attracting a little more attention, but the animated version barely appeared in the original series.

I also don't think it's a bad thing the interviews mentioned that Morph is going non-binary now. I think it's important that non-binary young people that watch it would be happy with the representation (even if it's not perfect).

Doesn’t matter what version Morph is being presented. People primarily knew him one way and now it seems as if he will be another. It is natural and expected for some to go “wtf”.

I respect that you feel it’s ok if reporters/interviewe’s bring this stuff up and talk about it before it comes out. I personally and what seems the majority of viewing audiences are tired of it. Again, The Marvels being seen by a majority of White Cis Men helps to show diversity isn’t the issue.

On a personal note, I am getting close to being sick of how I was born being used as tool, brownie points, and/or treated as some side attraction on display.

Give me a good story and stop ruining my fun before I even get the chance to try out your product.

[jwatson]

I don't understand your argument, and I say that genuinely. The Eternals being racially diverse didn't come up in the movie at all, because they're androids. The Marvels being women didn't come up in the movie at all, and the promo focused on the three of them working together because that was the point...? Half of Marvel's promotional material for any given MCU product at this point involves "Look at these characters from other stories being in the same story, together!" They just happened to be 3 female character this time which was enough to get the Social Injustice Warriors in a tizzy.

Was it pandering to white men when Hawkeye showed up in Thor? Was it pandering to white men when Iron Man showed up in Captain America? Was it pandering to white men during Phase 1 when 83% of our primary characters were white males? I always find it interesting that whenever anyone who's -not- a straight white male shows up, accusations of pandering abound, but the Avengers v.1 can be 100% white and 85% male and nobody considers that to be an agenda. Do straight white people not have an identity?

It was pandering then and it is pandering now. Marvel told the audience they thought a all white, mostly male, straight movie would sell and that is a winning formula according to them and so that is what they made. It's not like marvel lacks diverse characters that could have been in the first avengers. So in essence they rope a doped the people by saying we are sure this will sell this way and are now trying to diversify it after giving a certain group exactly what they wanted so objectively i can understand the calling it pandering and it is pandering to diversify because they aren't doing it because it is how the world exists they are doing it because they want to expand the sales since it hit a stagnant point going after one audience.

Black Panther during black history month, gay characters specifically during pride month. those sort of things are pandering but i don't think pandering is inherently wrong but i can also see the argument of if it mattered so much why did it takes so long, what happened that all of a sudden it matters. Is it really a case of trying to do better? just playing devil's advocate personally i don't care about the morph thing but i can see how it will be good for non binary people but i also understand the spoiled usually don't like to share their toys and marvel started this thing by saying this is your sandbox so i get the discourse even though in a perfect world there would be none because avengers 1 would have already had the diversity that exists in the world instead of it slowly "eating away" at what marvel considered a selling formula given to one group.

[Username taken]

Doesn’t matter what version Morph is being presented. People primarily knew him one way and now it seems as if he will be another. It is natural and expected for some to go “wtf”.

I respect that you feel it’s ok if reporters/interviewe’s bring this stuff up and talk about it before it comes out. I personally and what seems the majority of viewing audiences are tired of it. Again, The Marvels being seen by a majority of White Cis Men helps to show diversity isn’t the issue.

On a personal note, I am getting close to being sick of how I was born being used as tool, brownie points, and/or treated as some side attraction on display.

Give me a good story and stop ruining my fun before I even get the chance to try out your product.

I can't imagine most people care about a character that barely appeared in a nearly 30 year old series.

Morph going non-binary isn't an illogical progression for the character. They are a shapeshifter and was male presenting before but with time, they simply went non-gendered.

I also completely disagree that most people will have any issues with this. Most people will just watch and enjoy the series if it's good. It's the quality that will ultimately determine the series success.

[Username taken]

It was pandering then and it is pandering now. Marvel told the audience they thought a all white, mostly male, straight movie would sell and that is a winning formula according to them and so that is what they made. It's not like marvel lacks diverse characters that could have been in the first avengers. So in essence they rope a doped the people by saying we are sure this will sell this way and are now trying to diversify it after giving a certain group exactly what they wanted so objectively i can understand the calling it pandering and it is pandering to diversify because they aren't doing it because it is how the world exists they are doing it because they want to expand the sales since it hit a stagnant point going after one audience.

Black Panther during black history month, gay characters specifically during pride month. those sort of things are pandering but i don't think pandering is inherently wrong but i can also see the argument of if it mattered so much why did it takes so long, what happened that all of a sudden it matters. Is it really a case of trying to do better? just playing devil's advocate personally i don't care about the morph thing but i can see how it will be good for non binary people but i also understand the spoiled usually don't like to share their toys and marvel started this thing by saying this is your sandbox so i get the discourse even though in a perfect world there would be none because avengers 1 would have already had the diversity that exists in the world instead of it slowly "eating away" at what marvel considered a selling formula given to one group.

Why it took so long? Because a lot of people are bigots and racist and aren't accepting of non-white males.

To that point, Marvel was notoriously led by one of these bigoted individuals (Ike Perlmutter). We would NEVER have gotten BP or Captain Marvel if he had remained in control.

I'm not saying that Marvel couldn't include more diverse characters earlier, just that racism and bigotry is a real thing and is a real barrier to progress.

It is what it is.

[DragonsChi]

I can't imagine most people care about a character that barely appeared in a nearly 30 year old series.

Well you would be incorrect.

Can’t remember who said it but the quote goes something like … “Every character is someone’s favorite character”.

Not only that but it is disingenuous for those making that argument to make it in the first place. Morph’s death was and is touted as one of the primary reasons the X-Men Animated series had such a cultural impact during its time. The character was even stated by the SHOW RUNNERS to have NEVER returned but fan wanted him back.

Therefore, the constant bring up of how small a role he had…is either people who never saw the show or people who are lying to make their point. Shrug

As to it being logical for a shapeshifter to being Non-Binary and it being implied that it is to be expected… Non-Binary are human beings who do not live in a fictional world where they can change on a whim. I am a person that looks like a HUMAN. I do not accept the notion that I or any one else would rather have their default appearance be something people would run from if they saw on the street for the first time.

Time will tell. If the show makes it 3 season we will know how the domino’s fell. If the show gets pulled or the episode count gets cut in season two, we will also know.

[jwatson]

Why it took so long? Because a lot of people are bigots and racist and aren't accepting of non-white males.

To that point, Marvel was notoriously led by one of these bigoted individuals (Ike Perlmutter). We would NEVER have gotten BP or Captain Marvel if he had remained in control.

I'm not saying that Marvel couldn't include more diverse characters earlier, just that racism and bigotry is a real thing and is a real barrier to progress.

It is what it is.

I agree, racism and bigotry are very real and they are silently supported by "this is what sells." black people are black all year long not just through black history month and the lgbt are lgbt 12 months out the year and not one so by isolating their exposure to those months it continues to block out the rest of real time where the formula is what matters again. Or isolating them to books like women of marvel or marvel voices also does the same thing, isolate, divide, keep separate.

I mean heck was it last year or the year before someone thought it was cool to have planet of the ape variants in feb when there wasn't even any planet of the apes material being released.