Morph in X-Men '97 (possible spoilers)

[danielsan52]

They were ressurected all three. We saw Changeling on splash pages, and Petra and Sway ressurection was discussed when it was revealed the version we saw earlier were Vulcan's creations.

That appearance of Kevin was retconned

[yogaflame]

This shows your understanding is very much lacking on this subject. Either that or your just a queerphobic jerk. He was never a man, he just was not out. A nonbinary person is always nonbinary, and thus once they are out of the closet you should use correct pronouns, even retroactively or talking about their past. As a nonbinary person myself I feel great knowing that they are trying to be more diverse. Your comment just made me sick and is perfect example of the worlds attitudes. PRONOUNS ARE IMPORTANT.

You're speaking with a multicultural black gay man, so you can calm down. Your [presumptive] words make me sick. Rare are individuals with a more nuanced understanding of identity. That said, people can proclaim identity, but that does not erase previous identities, especially considering we are discussing fictional literary and cartoon characters, not actual people. Morph in X-Men TAS was not non binary. He was indeed a man in form and pronouns. Morph in X-Men '97 may be non binary. They are not the exact same characters. Just as characters in the books can take on radically different personalities and even histories under different writers/artists. I, nor you, nor anyone who hasn't seen the new show can not speak to that character yet.

You can change your pronouns all you want, but you can't erase or rewrite history for others. Neurolinguistic programming is powerful, but it is not absolute, and language is generally an inaccurate form of commination and always subject to interpretation. Demanding everyone think or speak exactly as you do is actually small minded and culturally authoritarian. There are vast multitudes of cultural expressions and expectations. The entire spectrum of such views has to be entertained. No one is more correct than anyone else in this regard. It's a very colonial and dogmatic view to think you can proclaim how everyone in the world should think or speak. And certainly not one that fosters understanding or acceptance of differences.

[danielsan52]

Blerd Without Fear gets it.

[Nicoclaws]

That appearance of Kevin was retconned

Ah sorry I didn't know that.

[dragon1440]

You're speaking with a multicultural black gay man, so you can calm down. Your [presumptive] words make me sick. Rare are individuals with a more nuanced understanding of identity. That said, people can proclaim identity, but that does not erase previous identities, especially considering we are discussing fictional literary and cartoon characters, not actual people. Morph in X-Men TAS was not non binary. He was indeed a man in form and pronouns. Morph in X-Men '97 may be non binary. They are not the exact same characters. Just as characters in the books can take on radically different personalities and even histories under different writers/artists. I, nor you, nor anyone who hasn't seen the new show can not speak to that character yet.

You can change your pronouns all you want, but you can't erase or rewrite history for others. Neurolinguistic programming is powerful, but it is not absolute, and language is generally an inaccurate form of commination and always subject to interpretation. Demanding everyone think or speak exactly as you do is actually small minded and culturally authoritarian. There are vast multitudes of cultural expressions and expectations. The entire spectrum of such views has to be entertained. No one is more correct than anyone else in this regard. It's a very colonial and dogmatic view to think you can proclaim how everyone in the world should think or speak. And certainly not one that fosters understanding or acceptance of differences.

The ONLY thing I am going to reply to because your OBVIOUSLY still not understanding. To quote you, " people can proclaim identity, but that does not erase previous identities". It does change the previous "identity" otherwise no would care about dead naming. YOU DONT GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Period. Using wrong pronouns to refer to past is JUST like them getting called by their old name.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Blerd Without Fear gets it.

Great video. Doesn't say much more than what has already been said here, but it's nice to see thoughts in motion and expressed vocally.

It won't change some peoples' opinions, though. Partly because of the same talking points, but also partly because of this: despite some of the people expressing dislike for Morph being non-binary stating they just want "their side" to be understood, they are not willing to see the side of the people happy with the change.

Talk to the people that are excited for this change. You gotta make an effort to see their side too. Otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

[Nicoclaws]

edit : nevermind, better put on ignore than insult such assured ignorance.

[marhawkman]

Mystique is like the worst person ever. Not the best representation. And she'd be far more controversial than Morph, since the general audience isn't even aware she's not straight.

Which is probably true of Morph too... especially seeing as how he wasn't like this before.

[Exodus]

You're speaking with a multicultural black gay man, so you can calm down. Your [presumptive] words make me sick. Rare are individuals with a more nuanced understanding of identity. That said, people can proclaim identity, but that does not erase previous identities, especially considering we are discussing fictional literary and cartoon characters, not actual people. Morph in X-Men TAS was not non binary. He was indeed a man in form and pronouns. Morph in X-Men '97 may be non binary. They are not the exact same characters. Just as characters in the books can take on radically different personalities and even histories under different writers/artists. I, nor you, nor anyone who hasn't seen the new show can not speak to that character yet.

You can change your pronouns all you want, but you can't erase or rewrite history for others. Neurolinguistic programming is powerful, but it is not absolute, and language is generally an inaccurate form of commination and always subject to interpretation. Demanding everyone think or speak exactly as you do is actually small minded and culturally authoritarian. There are vast multitudes of cultural expressions and expectations. The entire spectrum of such views has to be entertained. No one is more correct than anyone else in this regard. It's a very colonial and dogmatic view to think you can proclaim how everyone in the world should think or speak. And certainly not one that fosters understanding or acceptance of differences.

I appreciate that you are bringing this perspective. but it is a lot of talk for just accepting the new pronouns of a fictional character using "they, them, theirs" pronouns. Why should anything else matters in this particular discussion here? In my book, you are deflecting in order to center your own perspective on the subject matter at hand.

In this debate, I would say it is important to support "non-binary representation" in a cartoon program; in particular during disgusting right wing attacks against LGBTQ+ and QTBIPoC people.

Morph coming out as non-binary is a beautiful and important thing!! Cheers!

[marhawkman]

Can’t speak for everyone but you can go into my history to see how many times I have brought up Exiles Morph.

But it also shouldn’t matter. The same could be said that it’s hysterical that there are so many trying to detract the conversation on the forum, on a character that is suppose to have so little importance in their mind. Not adding to conversation at all but willing to jest at those who are trying to discuss. Pendulum swings both ways.

That's a funny thing with a franchise that has thousands of characters. a lot of people will like characters despite not seeing them often, and... talk about characters they see more often. The fact someone hasn't talked about say.... Corben recently... has little bearing on how much they liked the character... since the character hasn't been used in 23 years.

[jwatson]

By some of the logic i'm reading the show runners basically outed morph before the program did so just like calling someone you think is non-binary "They" without confirmation by the same logic it would be just as wrong to call morph that without first seeing morph define himself as non-binary so it's okay to wait for the show to see it handled first. i don't think yoga is saying anything is wrong with it just that it's premature.

Not that long until it airs.

[DragonsChi]

That's a funny thing with a franchise that has thousands of characters. a lot of people will like characters despite not seeing them often, and... talk about characters they see more often. The fact someone hasn't talked about say.... Corben recently... has little bearing on how much they liked the character... since the character hasn't been used in 23 years.

What’s even funnier is that most of the people in this thread who are making the argument of how unimportant/minor Morph is and so on are the same one’s who are still asking for characters like Pixie, Dust, Vincente Cimetta, Puck, Wallflower and so on. And then they be ready to “throw hands” if you say anything bad about them. The irony is incredible.

Heck the Blerd With Out Fear (who is often not accurate on comic history and details of characters) has 12min video on the Butterfly and why a night singer from the 60’s ,who appeared in maybe 2-3 comics at the most, should resurface. He wants to chime in about people being hypocritical for caring about Morph? A character on a show that was so popular Disney is trying to cash in on it 30 whole years later? I mean REALLY? LMAO go sit down somewhere, Blerd.

[Colossus1980]

That's a funny thing with a franchise that has thousands of characters. a lot of people will like characters despite not seeing them often, and... talk about characters they see more often. The fact someone hasn't talked about say.... Corben recently... has little bearing on how much they liked the character... since the character hasn't been used in 23 years.

Is Nightcrawler basically the only Catholic out of the thousands of X-characters?

[80sbaby]

By some of the logic i'm reading the show runners basically outed morph before the program did so just like calling someone you think is non-binary "They" without confirmation by the same logic it would be just as wrong to call morph that without first seeing morph define himself as non-binary so it's okay to wait for the show to see it handled first. i don't think yoga is saying anything is wrong with it just that it's premature.

Not that long until it airs.

You are aware Morph isn't a real person, right? They have no agency other than what the writers give them. So it's perfectly fine for the show runners to reveal this beforehand.

[lefthanded]

By some of the logic i'm reading the show runners basically outed morph before the program did so just like calling someone you think is non-binary "They" without confirmation by the same logic it would be just as wrong to call morph that without first seeing morph define himself as non-binary so it's okay to wait for the show to see it handled first. i don't think yoga is saying anything is wrong with it just that it's premature.

Not that long until it airs.

While I am all for ignoring whatever James Gunn says about DC movies until we actually see a trailer/official release (he seems to just never stop talking), when it comes to using pronouns based on a 'leak', it seems like a pretty stubborn stance to want to continue to use 'historical' pronouns.

It certainly is not incorrect, but it is a very weird hill to plant their flag on.