What are the Problems with the MCU?

[gurkle]

I’ll say what I said in another thread: while there hasn’t been all that much Multiverse stuff, it feels like more because three big sequels did a Multiverse related story. Spider-Man 3 at least kept its story specific to the franchise, but Doctor Strange 2 and Ant-Man 3 did stories that were a big departure from what they’d done before, and if you didn’t like one or both of those movies, it felt like a franchise getting hijacked by the Multiverse/Kang storyline.

Ironically they thought (according to the recent Hollywood Reporter article) they were doing the Ant-Man series a favor by making it “important” enough to set up the upcoming Avengers movies.

Which is another current problem with the MCU; if they thought Ant-Man 3 was going to be a hit then they don’t understand the audience as well as they used to.

[kcekada]

Ironically they thought (according to the recent Hollywood Reporter article) they were doing the Ant-Man series a favor by making it “important” enough to set up the upcoming Avengers movies.

Which is another current problem with the MCU; if they thought Ant-Man 3 was going to be a hit then they don’t understand the audience as well as they used to.

I loved the (no pun intended) smaller scale of the first two Ant-Man films. Not everything has to be about saving the damn world!

[vitaminbee]

The multiverse was barely used. There has only be only been four projects that have explored it (Loki, What If, No Way Home, and Multiverse of Madness). Maybe five if you count Endgame.

The cameos and surprises outweigh any sort of other aspect of the films. It just gets too much, especially Spider-Man. Sure it had moments that were good but I’ve had no urge to rewatch it since I saw it in theatres.

[Triniking1234]

The multiverse was barely used. There has only be only been four projects that have explored it (Loki, What If, No Way Home, and Multiverse of Madness). Maybe five if you count Endgame.

What If? is a half-assed version of the comic so it's mostly been the other 3 projects.

I'm honestly not sure where the Multiverse fatigue is coming from. DC only used it in The Flash and there's the Spider-Verse cartoons. Maybe I'm missing something since I kinda dipped out to finish my video games.

[ComicNoobie]

What If? is a half-assed version of the comic so it's mostly been the other 3 projects.

I'm honestly not sure where the Multiverse fatigue is coming from. DC only used it in The Flash and there's the Spider-Verse cartoons. Maybe I'm missing something since I kinda dipped out to finish my video games.

I think half the fatigue at least for some hardcore fans might be the endless speculating and then getting disappointed when the cameo doesn't happen. That obviously won't bother people who don't follow this stuff online.

For me it's when cameo/multiverse stuff comes at the cost of good storytelling and character focus. As someone who found Spider-Man No Way Home a good movie (Not a great one) I always wonder if it would be as popular without the nostalgia. That and the rumored Kraven the hunter plot sounded more interesting if it was true.

[Ultimate Captain America]

The problem of the MCU is its own success, specifically the success of the "shared universe" idea. And that, tied to the concurrent success of the streaming series sites (Netflix and similars). Nowadays, to be up to date with the MCU it is not enough to see a pair of films each year, you also have to follow series... and each one with several episodes, and lasting 40 minutes or an hour each. shorter than a film in isolation, but way larger if taken as a group. It may still be possible to follow, but the problem is that many others liked the shared universe thing and release their own multitude of stuff to follow: DC, Star Wars, Star Trek, Sony's Spider-Man universe, etc. Add to that the standalone films and series someone may also want to follow, and that annoying thing called "real life", and even the most dedicated fan ends completely exhausted.

[stingray]

I like some humor in the films, but not everything has to be a slapstick comedy. The scene in 'The Marvels' when they were on that planet with all the singing was pretty cringe. Also, Man-Bull scared me when I was a kid when he fought Daredevil in the comics. I also like the Wrecking Crew. In the She-Hulk show they were all turned into bad jokes. I think the farther they remove themselves from the source material, the worse the movies will get.

[Ultimate Captain America]

I like some humor in the films, but not everything has to be a slapstick comedy. The scene in 'The Marvels' when they were on that planet with all the singing was pretty cringe. Also, Man-Bull scared me when I was a kid when he fought Daredevil in the comics. I also like the Wrecking Crew. In the She-Hulk show they were all turned into bad jokes. I think the farther they remove themselves from the source material, the worse the movies will get.

The Wrecking crew are treated as bad jokes in comics too, that wasn't anything new or unexpected. Each time you need a stock villain doing villain-standard stuff and ready to be humiliated by the hero, the Wrecking Crew are always robbing a bank somewhere. As in the last Sentry comic.

[Thor-Ul]

I think half the fatigue at least for some hardcore fans might be the endless speculating and then getting disappointed when the cameo doesn't happen. That obviously won't bother people who don't follow this stuff online.

For me it's when cameo/multiverse stuff comes at the cost of good storytelling and character focus. As someone who found Spider-Man No Way Home a good movie (Not a great one) I always wonder if it would be as popular without the nostalgia. That and the rumored Kraven the hunter plot sounded more interesting if it was true.

The problem of the MCU is its own success, specifically the success of the "shared universe" idea. And that, tied to the concurrent success of the streaming series sites (Netflix and similars). Nowadays, to be up to date with the MCU it is not enough to see a pair of films each year, you also have to follow series... and each one with several episodes, and lasting 40 minutes or an hour each. shorter than a film in isolation, but way larger if taken as a group. It may still be possible to follow, but the problem is that many others liked the shared universe thing and release their own multitude of stuff to follow: DC, Star Wars, Star Trek, Sony's Spider-Man universe, etc. Add to that the standalone films and series someone may also want to follow, and that annoying thing called "real life", and even the most dedicated fan ends completely exhausted.

Outside these aspects I would add the fatigue of the formula. Origins stories all follow a pattern and that was evident since Dr. Strange movie. Please, everybody was joking around that time with the idea then Dr. Strange was a magic Iron man, remember? At this point, the MCU had become formulaic and predictable, which is worse. The tone has become repetive, the menaces and twists are become repetitive. The genre still can gave good stories, but it have to change how the stories are being told and what is the tone used.
But I think this could be a double edged sword: for one side, there are expectations from what a Marvel movie had to be, but on tthe other side there is a fatigue of this formula. The challenge for Marvel is change enough to be different and keep enough to still being the same.

How it was said by this guy... oh yes, "create the illusion of change". Wise guy who said that. I think he appeared in some Marvel movies.

[ComicNoobie]

Outside these aspects I would add the fatigue of the formula. Origins stories all follow a pattern and that was evident since Dr. Strange movie. Please, everybody was joking around that time with the idea then Dr. Strange was a magic Iron man, remember? At this point, the MCU had become formulaic and predictable, which is worse. The tone has become repetive, the menaces and twists are become repetitive. The genre still can gave good stories, but it have to change how the stories are being told and what is the tone used.
But I think this could be a double edged sword: for one side, there are expectations from what a Marvel movie had to be, but on tthe other side there is a fatigue of this formula. The challenge for Marvel is change enough to be different and keep enough to still being the same.

How it was said by this guy... oh yes, "create the illusion of change". Wise guy who said that. I think he appeared in some Marvel movies.

This is why they need to focus more on building their characters first and world building second. I mean how many Spider-Man and Batman movies are out there? Many of them feel cut from the same cloth. But despite that most of these movies focus primarily on the characters. Ironically Amazing Spider-Man 2 was the spidey movie setting up a franchise and didn't succeed. I think the movies should tone down the "to be continued" angle and just focus on the story being told in the current movie and developing the characters that are the stars of that movie.

I also feel like whenever the MCU tries to do something different it gets equally criticized. The Eternals first comes to mind. I'm not saying it was a flawless movie but that was something different with little to none of the usual MCU humor and it didn't do well. Projects like She-Hulk and the Marvels tried to branch out and get a female audience and both got flak for it.

[PhantomBoom]

What If? is a half-assed version of the comic so it's mostly been the other 3 projects.

I'm honestly not sure where the Multiverse fatigue is coming from. DC only used it in The Flash and there's the Spider-Verse cartoons. Maybe I'm missing something since I kinda dipped out to finish my video games.

I mean sorry but this feels like a strange thing to say, regardless of whether you liked What If to say it doesn't explore the multiverse is simply not a correct statement to make.
I mean the literal premise is that nearly every episode takes place in separate universe where events and characters turned out differently than we know them.

[PhantomBoom]

I like some humor in the films, but not everything has to be a slapstick comedy. The scene in 'The Marvels' when they were on that planet with all the singing was pretty cringe. Also, Man-Bull scared me when I was a kid when he fought Daredevil in the comics. I also like the Wrecking Crew. In the She-Hulk show they were all turned into bad jokes. I think the farther they remove themselves from the source material, the worse the movies will get.

I must say it's strange to say the movies are worse for removing themselves from the source material, but the examples you have brought up such as Aladna or the Wrecking Crew being jobbers aren't removed from the source material.

Aladna is from the Kelly Sue DeConnick run of Captain Marvel and the Wrecking Crew being jobbers who are treated jokes is essentially their entire gimmicks as characters.

[Triniking1234]

I mean sorry but this feels like a strange thing to say, regardless of whether you liked What If to say it doesn't explore the multiverse is simply not a correct statement to make.
I mean the literal premise is that nearly every episode takes place in separate universe where events and characters turned out differently than we know them.

Where did I say that? When I said it's a half-assed version of the book, I meant the book had better stories.

[XandertheWise]

well, PhantomBoom have you even read the original What If comic book series? you probably haven't.

the What If Cartoon is based more on the Marvel Movies Avengers etc. that's what I cant stand about the What IF show.

I mean sorry but this feels like a strange thing to say, regardless of whether you liked What If to say it doesn't explore the multiverse is simply not a correct statement to make.
I mean the literal premise is that nearly every episode takes place in separate universe where events and characters turned out differently than we know them.

[PhantomBoom]

Where did I say that? When I said it's a half-assed version of the book, I meant the book had better stories.

You said this.

"What If? is a half-assed version of the comic so it's mostly been the other 3 projects.".

In response to someone saying the multiverse was in four projects.
I'm not sure in what way this isn't saying that What If did not explore the multiverse.

well, PhantomBoom have you even read the original What If comic book series? you probably haven't.

the What If Cartoon is based more on the Marvel Movies Avengers etc. that's what I cant stand about the What IF show.

I have read the comics, but they're irrelevant to this so I'm unsure why you're bringing them up.
And What If being based on the movies makes sense, the concept is primarily made to twist around plots, characters and concepts the audience is familiar with, you cannot ask the question "What If the Fantastic Four weren't involved in Civil War?" when the audience primarily knows a version of the story that doesn't include them to begin with, or to ask the question "What If Spider-Man never sold his marriage?" and the version they know never did that.