What are the Problems with the MCU?

[Colossus1980]

Not every IP is going to be a franchise. Most IPs are not going to be a GOTG hit.

When the talent involved making movies are hired based on agenda and politics, not actual talent or experience.

When writers have never read any of the source material and write their own agendas into the story.

[DrNewGod]

Most of what I think has been said better by others. The MCU has come to focus on building an overarching plot across franchises instead of writing good standalone films. IMO, the screenwriters have also focused on what they want some of the characters to be, rather than interpreting the characters they had (some comics writers have been guilty of that too).

[Red Falcon]

IMO, the stories have gotten stale, and formulaic in both plot and tone.

When you break it down, Guardians 3, Thor: Love and Thunder, Quantumania, and The Marvels have more or less the same plot.

Also (and maybe this is just me), the character work feels somewhat shallow, possibly due to an overreliance on humor.

Honestly, though, I just can't bring myself to care about what happens next. The thrill is gone, as the esteemed Mr. King used to sing.

Also Black Widow and Shang-Chi had the same plot. When I first read the plot summaries they put out for both before the movies came out, they both stated that the films were about the main character revisiting their past and facing a threat from there.

To add my own two cents in here, some of the villains have been ineffective. In particular, Malekith from Thor: The Dark World could have easily been replaced by a cosmic cloud of dust. The only things that would change would be his dialogue and him trying to get a MacGuffin.

[DigiCom]

you need to go watch Doctor Strange 2 Multiverse again. Steven Strange has evolved. Since he read both books the Darkhold and the Vishanti book, he can now dreamwalk and possess dead bodies and use the spirits of the damned to help him out. that and he can use magic to slice things up etc. Plus his cape has a mind of its own where it even helps out to smother people, strange them or get someone out of danger.

He's eve got a literal third eye now

Those are all about what he can DO, not who he IS. In order to have an arc, a character needs to have changed (ideally, grown) as a person by the end.

What lesson has he learned about himself from the experience? How have his motivations changed? Will he now make different choices?

[DigiCom]

To add my own two cents in here, some of the villains have been ineffective. In particular, Malekith from Thor: The Dark World could have easily been replaced by a cosmic cloud of dust. The only things that would change would be his dialogue and him trying to get a MacGuffin.

That's actually a really good point. It's an old truism that a hero is often only as good as his villains, and the motivations foor a lot of the villains post-Endgame have been pretty weak (as always, IMO).

[Chris0013]

Probably a minor complaint...but we never got a payoff on this....

[Hypestyle]

Probably a minor complaint...but we never got a payoff on this....

for sure. Of course, Fox still owned the Human Torch film rights at the time.

"Now", I suppose the legal hurdle is cleared for them to explore it, but especially since the new Fantastic Four project is underway, I wouldn't hold my breath on it, alas. "In the future", maybe we get to see an alternate Earth Jim Hammond torch glimpsed somewhere.

[Oberon]

Also Black Widow and Shang-Chi had the same plot. When I first read the plot summaries they put out for both before the movies came out, they both stated that the films were about the main character revisiting their past and facing a threat from there.

To add my own two cents in here, some of the villains have been ineffective. In particular, Malekith from Thor: The Dark World could have easily been replaced by a cosmic cloud of dust. The only things that would change would be his dialogue and him trying to get a MacGuffin.

Long ago I read/learned that there are only about 35 plots in all fiction. We're actually twisting arcs, etc from thousands of years ago.


So I don't have expectations that there is some great plot that no one has used/found.

Serialized fiction of most forms ends up using Soap Opera conventions, to keep characters or situations changing.

There are mostly 3 main roles for your main type characters.

Victim
Victimizer

Redemptionist.

That is all, friends.

[bat39]

Too much MCU. Back in the good old days, we only had to watch 4-6 hours a year worth of movies. Now we have to watch over 20 hours worth of movies and shows per year, and folks aren't down with that. If Marvel Studios just concentrated on two or three movies a year, they would not be "stretched thin". But it's not just Disney is going too far with these franchises. We now have Frasier reboots, NCIS prequels, Fast and Furious sequels and a future Barbie cinematic universe. It's just too much. I think I'll just check out a ballgame, listen to a podcast, or watch a documentary instead.

I don't mind the shows much (though I haven't really watched them, apart from a couple of episodes of Loki), but I don't think they should be essential viewing for the movies. Let them be an optional extra. If you're going to use characters and plot elements from the shows in the movies, do a better job bringing movie-only audiences up to speed without making them feel like they missed something.

My feeling is that every MCU project that does well tries to do something different. Captain America was a 1940s pulp adventure; the second movie was a conspiracy thriller. WandaVision was a mix of black comedy satire and surreal horror. When they try to be interesting and fresh it usually works better IMHO.

True. The superhero genre, MCU or non-MCU, is at its best when it actually tells stories through the prism of other genres. TDK is a crime film. Logan is a Western. GotG is a space opera. Ant-Man is a heist film. WW is a war film. And so on.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

The MCU is a set of solid but average films with a few exceptions like Civil War, Infinity War, Black Panther.

I fell off in phase 2 and I was a bigger fan if the Netflix shows. Daredevil was more my style.

[DigiCom]

for sure. Of course, Fox still owned the Human Torch film rights at the time.

"Now", I suppose the legal hurdle is cleared for them to explore it, but especially since the new Fantastic Four project is underway, I wouldn't hold my breath on it, alas. "In the future", maybe we get to see an alternate Earth Jim Hammond torch glimpsed somewhere.

Then again, if the FF film is a period piece, as rumored, maybe we'll see something there.

[XandertheWise]

Go watch the movie. There's some character stuff that does go on in the movie. Such as Wanda's stuff involving the multiverse/dreamwalking kids and the house wife Wanda. the kids end up being scared of the witch. Scarlet Witch does a Spider-Man 2Doc Ock moment to save the day.

and Steven Strange has his own struggle due to his Christine's wedding yada yada

so dont sit there and tell me that nothing went on in Doctor Strange 2

Those are all about what he can DO, not who he IS. In order to have an arc, a character needs to have changed (ideally, grown) as a person by the end.

What lesson has he learned about himself from the experience? How have his motivations changed? Will he now make different choices?

[James Cameron]

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[dkrook]

Oh yeah so upset we didn't douchebag Tony from the comics who was a drunk prick who cloned one of his friends, agreed to send another Avenger off world rather than try to help him. Can't believe Hank Pym wasn't an abusive husband who slapped his wife on film can't believe they wouldn't adapt that. Like honestly these movies were never going yo be 100% accurate to the comics.

Damn! call me crazy, but I would love to see a Marvel where they would be bold enough to do just these kinds of movies. I believe that this is the issue we're talking about. As opposed to DC and the nature of their heroes being god's relating to humans. Marvel has been about regular humans ...with problems becoming "godlike" heroes. Let's see that.

[gurkle]

Go watch the movie. There's some character stuff that does go on in the movie. Such as Wanda's stuff involving the multiverse/dreamwalking kids and the house wife Wanda. the kids end up being scared of the witch. Scarlet Witch does a Spider-Man 2Doc Ock moment to save the day.

and Steven Strange has his own struggle due to his Christine's wedding yada yada

so dont sit there and tell me that nothing went on in Doctor Strange 2

Nothing went on. Wanda turns evil offscreen and turns good again for no good reason (given how evil she's been up to that point, the children crying would not change her opinion that they'll learn to love her), all in the service of a storyline she already went through in WandaVision.

We're told Strange is having trouble getting over Christine, but we don't see it, just as we're told he has trouble not being in control, but we don't see it (and didn't see it in Infinity War). In terms of what happens in the story, he does essentially nothing except give a pep talk to a kid sidekick.

It's sort of the essence of the problem with a lot of writing, and not just in the MCU, where they tell you why a character is behaving a certain way, and think that's actually convincing. The 30-second tag scene of Wanda reading the Darkhold doesn't justify her being a psycho loon the next time we see her, it just "explains" it.