The return of the Mighty Mighty New 52 Discussion thread

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Welcome to the club, OP. Well, actually, Marvel looks like it's putting out some really good stuff but between the double shipping and high prices, I only read Hawkeye in trades and Daredevil. Still, at least with Marvel it feels like there's quite a lot of stuff I would like to catch up on at some point. DC, however, is another story all together.

I came into comics through early 90s runs of The Flash, Superman and Batman but I currently don't read a single in-continuity DC book. Worse, while I'm sure one or two of their titles have improved recently (I have heard good things about Pak's Action Comics, for example), I don't feel like I'm missing anything. I don't generally like the new takes on established characters but, more importantly, I don't like the tonal monotony of the line and I really hate the way the whole line seems to be ruled by a badly developed editorial drive rather than allowing the creators to simply create. As such, not only do I not have any interest in the comics themselves, there isn't even a sense of nostalgia to draw me back in. This is a new DC Universe and I couldn't care less.

On the plus side, this does mean that I get a chance to re-read and gain an entirely new appreciation for older DC comics and, money permitting, start filling up some major blank spots in my DC Comics collection. Best of all, I've really discovered creator owned comics - most especially through the currently unstoppable and thoroughly awesome Image Comics - and I couldn't be happier. There really is something to be said for a reading a very diverse selection of quality comics by creators who are clearly putting their heart and soul into their work. Sure, I don't like all creator-owned comics equally but even with the ones that I flat out don't like, it still feels like there's actual integrity in the work being put out. A given title may not work for me but at least it doesn't usually end up feel like nothing more than phoned-in corporate product.

I haven't entirely abandoned corporate-owned comics (I still read Buffy, Daredevil and the Adventures of Superman on a monthly basis) but creator owned comics are the future -certainly for me, but, maybe just maybe. for the comics industry as a whole too.

[Flash Gordon]

That's kind of my problem with MARVEL, too.

I can't afford to buy all the books I want from them, and I'd honestly rather spend money on IMAGE books.

I read DAREDEVIL, SILVER SURFER, MS. MARVEL, and BLACK WIDOW. CAPTAIN AMERICA and THE WINTER SOLIDER are great, but my budget is just weak right now.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I haven't seen Man of Steel. Is that the Superman suit he was wearing in the movie? Yikes! He could have been Cyborg Superman.

No, its not. This is the suit that he wore in that movie.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

For me, it all comes down to the characters as well. In a less corrupt political system, Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and the Flash would have long since entered the public domain. I consider the DC heroes with their 70+ years of history to be a part of the cultural heritage of the United States. But the bleak and depressing world that DC has chosen to set them in shows mostly that they have been poor custodians of that cultural heritage.

As far as I can tell, DC's editorial, and most of the writers, don't seem to grasp what makes these heroes compelling, or what kept people interested in them all that time. The problem extends beyond the comic books, and goes as far as whoever greenlit the script for Man of Steel, to say nothing of Flashpoint Paradox and JL: War. This lack of humor and heart is indeed sad.

You do realize that what you call the "cultural heritage" of DC is littered with several examples of editorial mismanagement, reboots, retcons, etc. don't you? DC wouldn't have been what you're remembering it as if not for that exact history.

People don't seem to realize that the versions of the characters they love usually turn out to be, like, the fifth version that's been presented...

[Jphu8414]

August will be the last month I pick up any DC Universe titles. I'm finishing off the stories currently going, and bowing out before the September Futures End month of books.

After decades of reading, I've just finally met the end of my endurance. It's time for a clean break.

I have already started the cancellations today. Starting with Birds Of Prey. A franchise I followed since its very inception. But now, the book lost its appeal. I'm done with it.

The only DC book I intend to keep following is He-Man And The Masters Of The Universe. I'm enjoying that. And I will continue to follow it.

What this means is: That I am pretty much done with Marvel and DC. I will keep supporting the great indie books I support and love. But as for the big two? I'm done.

I'm sorry to see you go friend, best of wishes to you
Hopefully something will catch interest again in the future

[SteveGus]

You do realize that what you call the "cultural heritage" of DC is littered with several examples of editorial mismanagement, reboots, retcons, etc. don't you? DC wouldn't have been what you're remembering it as if not for that exact history.

People don't seem to realize that the versions of the characters they love usually turn out to be, like, the fifth version that's been presented...

The problem is not so much that there have been reboots or retcons, but rather the monotonously bleak mood of the reboots we got, the general uniformity of the art styles, and the uniformly miserable lives of most of the title characters. Marvel at least has some outlying series that are not uniformly grim in mood, and a greater variety of art as well. All DC has anymore is Astro City, and now that's Vertigo; this has to be one of the signs of the apocalypse.

[Flash Gordon]

Pak's ACTION COMICS is not grim and gritty.

People always tout SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE as their SUPERMAN, but fail to realize that isn't the same Superman from 1938. Just like it isn't the same Superman of today. Times change, tastes differ. There's nothing wrong with it, it just is.

That was never *my* Superman, as I'm a fan of the character at large. There's things I've liked from every iteration, even if George Reeves reruns got me into SUPERMAN.

[Deathstroke the Terminator]

The Superman costume change alone is one major reason I don't support the Nu52. Imagine if Chris Reeve had worn that abomination.

It looks weird seeing Reeves without the classic design, he kind of looks like a super villain with that costume.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

The problem is not so much that there have been reboots or retcons, but rather the monotonously bleak mood of the reboots we got, the general uniformity of the art styles, and the uniformly miserable lives of most of the title characters. Marvel at least has some outlying series that are not uniformly grim in mood, and a greater variety of art as well. All DC has anymore is Astro City, and now that's Vertigo; this has to be one of the signs of the apocalypse.

Pak's ACTION COMICS is not grim and gritty.

People always tout SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE as their SUPERMAN, but fail to realize that isn't the same Superman from 1938. Just like it isn't the same Superman of today. Times change, tastes differ. There's nothing wrong with it, it just is.

That was never *my* Superman, as I'm a fan of the character at large. There's things I've liked from every iteration, even if George Reeves reruns got me into SUPERMAN.

Like Flash Gordon already said, there is a lot that's being published at DC right now that is not overtly "grim and gritty."

Harley Quinn is touted as one of the "funner" books on the shelves right now. The first issue of Justice League United felt more like a throwback to seventies JLA stories than anything else. And, there are are several series put out by DC – Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Green Lantern: New Guardians, Green Lantern Corps, All Star Western, Red Lanterns, Action Comics, Aquaman, etc. – that really aren't at all darker than any other superhero story. Actually, I don't think I've read anything from DC that is just inherently "darker" than something else I'd read at Marvel.

Plus, Marvel has plenty of its grim grittiness too. For example, ever read Ellis' current Moon Knight...that title is kind of shocking to the extent that its not afraid to show gore or be depressing. Still a good read, though.

[JackDaw]

For me stopping following DC or Marvel on a monthly basis just came down to a change of "reading style".

The days when I just followed characters regardless of writer passed around 10 years ago… just noticed that many writers consistently bore me. So when I want my fix of super hero adventures I look for writer/ character combinations I like. I can find these… but 9 times out of 10…combo lasts about 6 to 12 issues, and then you need to go to hassle of cancelling from pull list, and looking for something else.

So basically find reading runs in arrears works far better for me. I just seek out a run in last 30 where a writer I like stayed on a character I like for 20ish issues or more…buy it and read it. It wouldn't work for everybody… some read a lot more super hero comics than I do and might struggle to get enough comics this way… but it works very well for me. I end up really enjoying the super hero comics I do read.

[Joe Kalicki]

Like Flash Gordon already said, there is a lot that's being published at DC right now that is not overtly "grim and gritty."

Harley Quinn is touted as one of the "funner" books on the shelves right now. The first issue of Justice League United felt more like a throwback to seventies JLA stories than anything else. And, there are are several series put out by DC – Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Green Lantern: New Guardians, Green Lantern Corps, All Star Western, Red Lanterns, Action Comics, Aquaman, etc. – that really aren't at all darker than any other superhero story. Actually, I don't think I've read anything from DC that is just inherently "darker" than something else I'd read at Marvel.

Plus, Marvel has plenty of its grim grittiness too. For example, ever read Ellis' current Moon Knight...that title is kind of shocking to the extent that its not afraid to show gore or be depressing. Still a good read, though.

The complaint that DC is "uniformly grim and gritty with the same art style" doesn't make any sense, and blatantly untrue. The New 52 features a whole lot of wildly different and extremely talented artists, a diversity of styles, and some very fun and funny comics. There isn't a book out today that makes me laugh more than Red Lanterns, for instance.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

And DC's got plenty of fair titles, a sample platter of good stuff (Batman, Action Comics, Superman Unchained) and a beating heart of unfiltered crap it's trying to get to as many customers as possible (Future's End, JL). Marvel's got some so-so and bad titles too, but it's got Daredevil, Loki, Moon Knight, Hawkeye, Hickman's Avengers, Uncanny Avengers, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Silver Surfer, Thor...

You do realize this is a subjective list right? I tried reading Ms. Marvel and found it intolerably boring. I also thought that the second issue of Silver Surfer was just...bad, even after a very strong first issue. Plus, there are a lot of people who do like JL (its okay, imo) and Futures End actually turned out...pretty well.

And just like Marvel has a list of great titles, DC also does: Batman, Detective Comics, Batman Eternal, Action Comics, Superman Unchained, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern: New Guardians, Green Lantern, Red Lanterns, Aquaman....

And once Johns takes over on the main Superman title, we can probably add that to the list as well.

There's no ignoring that these titles have gotten a lot of critical acclaim. DC just has a reputation problem right now because of all the editorial conflicts that have come out of the company in recent years. That is, of course, something that still needs to be addressed, but it doesn't mean they don't still put out a decent amount of good titles.

[Joe Kalicki]

There's no ignoring that these titles have gotten a lot of critical acclaim. DC just has a reputation problem right now because of all the editorial conflicts that have come out of the company in recent years. That is, of course, something that still needs to be addressed, but it doesn't mean they don't still put out a decent amount of good titles.

And even though editorial may have been a problem for some of the writers, it could very well be responsible for many of the really great titles DC is publishing right now. They have a system, and the people that work best in the system are going to produce the best work. The people who can't work well in the system should go and find a new system they can thrive in.

[Kid A]

And just like Marvel has a list of great titles, DC also does: Batman, Detective Comics, Batman Eternal, Action Comics, Superman Unchained, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern: New Guardians, Green Lantern, Red Lanterns, Aquaman....

Swamp Thing is the best book being published from either of the Big Two.

To be honest, I think DC's top tier (Wonder Woman, Swamp Thing, Aquaman) is better than Marvel's top tier, but Marvel has more sheer quantity of diverse upper-mid tier books.

[Billy Batson]

Swamp Thing is the best book being published from either of the Big Two.

To be honest, I think DC's top tier (Wonder Woman, Swamp Thing, Aquaman) is better than Marvel's top tier, but Marvel has more sheer quantity of diverse upper-mid tier books.

Aquaman is top tier? I haven't heard anything about Parker's Aquaman, though I've heard he's a good writer.
I'm not seeing those Marvel titles lasting long, though.