The return of the Mighty Mighty New 52 Discussion thread

[steeplejack2112]

So one example out of two years worth of stories where Superman's newer, douchier personality isn't showing. Big deal. Again it all comes down to a matter of what version of Superman people like/dislike. For the two of you above me who think he's great....good for you. I hate him right now. The Power Ranger armor sucks, and I don't care for his personality. I have every right to acknowledge that this version of Superman sucks for me. You have every right to acknowledge that it works for you. Phrase it any way you wish because I certainly will.

[LoneNecromancer]

Ah, moving the goalposts. Classic.

I'm willling to bet we could've had an entire page of examples and you still would've said that (also, that was two examples).

And as far as your "right" goes to say Superman's a douche? Oh, sure. You can say it. But an opinion isn't a fact. Some opinions are backed up by evidence.

[Joe Kalicki]

The New 52 has been a very bad experience for old time fans.

Speak for yourself. I'm loving the New 52. It was needed to give a fresh start for people to come in and try out the books who otherwise wouldn't. And it worked. DC gambled that they'd gain more new readers than they'd lose old readers, and they were right. Their sales have been up for three years straight, and that would not have happened without the reboot.

[vaf2675]

I can justify it for you very simply - it got me back into comics.

It was a fresh start that DC needed, and it's paid off for them.

Please explain why DC needed it? It only gave them a temporary sales boost because of all the #1 issues, promptly followed by decaying sales numbers and multiple cancellations for all the crappy titles that were really not needed.

And just for that you destroy all that history and all those characters who are now being "reinterpreted" just to add diversity to the line?

Like I said in my post, it wasn't broken and it sure as hell didn't need any fixing. All they have done is create an even bigger mess. And to top it all off, next year is the 30th anniversary of the Crisis.

Care to hazard a guess about what exactly is going to happen when all the weeklies end next year on March?

[SteveGus]

Whoever your favorite Marvel characters are that were killed off I am sorry, but understand that even though Superman (my favorite character) still exists he is a far cry from the Superman I loved in the comics. He's pretty much dead to me.

For you, it was Superman; for me, Wonder Woman, but it all leads to the same place. I just can't find anything in the DCU entertaining any more while these characters' books and worlds are in such a wretched state.

[vaf2675]

Speak for yourself. I'm loving the New 52. It was needed to give a fresh start for people to come in and try out the books who otherwise wouldn't. And it worked. DC gambled that they'd gain more new readers than they'd lose old readers, and they were right. Their sales have been up for three years straight, and that would not have happened without the reboot.

With all those increases in sales, how do you explain all the titles they have had to cancel since the New 52 began? I find it sad that title like Teen Titans has fared so miserably in the New 52, that the only solution they find not to cancel them outright is just to throw out another #1 a few months after you cancel the series just to see if you get a boost in sales that justifies its continued existence.

That to me is just poor storytelling and cheap marketing ploys.

[Flash Gordon]

Your opinion....not mine. If armored, douchebag Superman is your fit then so be it.

Wow, what Earth in the multiverse are you living on?

Here we have some pretty rad SUPERMAN titles, where he is a fantastic hero and a kind soul.

[thetrellan]

Er, who are you?

Hush, you fool, can't you see he's on a roll?

[thetrellan]

Wait a minute, Green Arrow is out but He-Man is in? A man of priorities, I see.

[GlennSimpson]

With all those increases in sales, how do you explain all the titles they have had to cancel since the New 52 began? I find it sad that title like Teen Titans has fared so miserably in the New 52, that the only solution they find not to cancel them outright is just to throw out another #1 a few months after you cancel the series just to see if you get a boost in sales that justifies its continued existence.

That to me is just poor storytelling and cheap marketing ploys.

Well, the first question would be, has DC cancelled more titles in the 3 years since the new52 began than they did in the 3 years before? I don't know, but I bet it's not that much more, especially when you consider that DC isn't doing many mini-series any more.

And while yes, a quick relaunch to #1 is pretty cheesy, it's pretty much what Marvel has been doing for a while now. Maybe you consider it not to be OK when Marvel does it either, but there's at least a strong precedent for it working.

Sidebar: A couple of months ago, for another discussion, I did an analysis of the number of ongoing Marvel series that have run continuously since the DC relaunch, and the answer was zero. Everything that was running in August 2011 for Marvel was either a mini-series or has been relaunched or just cancelled. Just something to keep in mind as one considers the environment that DC is competing in...

The main reason the new52 relaunch worked is that it got ATTENTION to DC. DC did something to get noticed. Even if the books are or are not better than they were before, there are a lot of people who didn't pay any attention to DC until DC said "hey, here's a great time to jump in."

All of that history wasn't bringing in the readers, so it wasn't worth keeping.

[thetrellan]

The Superman costume change alone is one major reason I don't support the Nu52. Imagine if Chris Reeve had worn that abomination.

Look, Ma, Superman joined the Fantastic Four!

[thetrellan]

Meh, DC seems to have found its footing in recent months. And I myself have found that the quality books at DC are just as good as anything put out by Marvel right now. The only thing is...Marvel seems to have more of them right now. The majority of DC's books at the moment follow more of a house-style, which is fine for some, but hampers others in that it leads to editorial micromanagement. When we look at it, its really the books that are able to be left alone that are the best. And that, you know, is just where Marvel was a few years ago. DC just needs to get its editorial under control.

I hate to say it, but I agree with DOT and FG. No major problems with writing on either front, and it's true that DC has a fine pool of artistic talent to draw from, but they don't use their best on any permanent basis. Jae Lee is fantastic, as is Eaglesham, Janin and the list goes on, but Sorrentino is the only really outstanding artist that DC keeps busy all the time, while Marvel uses takes full advantage of their talent.

It was more a question of direction that caused me to quit reading Marvel. I don't like where they've been heading. But I have no complaints about their quality!

[vaf2675]

Well, the first question would be, has DC cancelled more titles in the 3 years since the new52 began than they did in the 3 years before? I don't know, but I bet it's not that much more, especially when you consider that DC isn't doing mini-series any more.

And while yes, a quick relaunch to #1 is pretty cheesy, it's pretty much what Marvel has been doing for a while now. Maybe you consider it not to be OK when Marvel does it either, but there's at least a strong precedent for it working.

As far as getting attention:



The main reason the new52 relaunch worked is that it got ATTENTION to DC. DC did something to get noticed. Even if the books are or are not better than they were before, there are a lot of people who didn't pay any attention to DC until DC said "hey, here's a great time to jump in."

All of that history wasn't bringing in the readers, so it wasn't worth keeping.

All of that history is the reason they had readers in the first place. And while Marvel also is a frequent user of the new #1 sales gimmick, at least they have never felt the need of destroying all their continuity just to bring in some new readers.

It's really sad that such a vibrant and colorful comics universe that DC had was completely rewritten just to come up with some sales numbers. If Marvel has been able to continue their dominance without sacrificing their history what does this mean? That DC is so insecure about their properties that the only way for them to increase sales is to continually reboot them over and over and over again leaves a lot to be said?

But like I've said, this will all probably be a mute point come April of 2015 when the next Crisis occurs.

[Joe Kalicki]

With all those increases in sales, how do you explain all the titles they have had to cancel since the New 52 began? I find it sad that title like Teen Titans has fared so miserably in the New 52, that the only solution they find not to cancel them outright is just to throw out another #1 a few months after you cancel the series just to see if you get a boost in sales that justifies its continued existence.

That to me is just poor storytelling and cheap marketing ploys.

Some books are going to have low sales and get cancelled. Marvel cancels books and they're the best-selling company here. That doesn't mean overall sales are up, just because some books aren't well-liked.

[thetrellan]

Not to worry, I'm used to it by now.

Still haven't found anyone who can justify the New 52's existence, so I just laugh off all the haters.

Hey, I believe in your right to own your feelings, and even share them to a point. But calling others who think that you hating the new 52 haters? That would make them hater haters. And I hate that.