The return of the Mighty Mighty New 52 Discussion thread

[inisideguy]

Good post. Both Marvel and DC are in a tough situation. Seemingly, their characters have rarely been this popular - maybe the 40's and early 90's? But while sales are going up to some degree it's nothing compared to the flood of people seeing the movies/TV Shows. Avengers, Iron Man, Superman, Captain America and Green Arrow are all coming off of or have highly successful movies or TV shows, but really don't sell well at all. And some of those books are quality. Why is that? Is it the company's fault, is it the medium itself, is it society, is it the younger demographics preferences? Probably a combination of all of the above. But I know both companies are trying desperately to tap into the huge pool of potential fans that have been created -just w/o a ton of success, yet

Maybe they are victims of their own success in TV and movies? What I mean is since there are so many other mediums in which to follow these characters adventures that the comic medium is becoming and outdated way in which to see them? Prior to becoming huge in movies and TV shows the only way you could follow your favorite hero was in comics Now you can play through a comic on x-box. Or fight other comic characters on x-box. Or follow them in the movies or on a weekly tv show. Overall I dont think these characters have ever had the exposure they do now. Movies, weekly tv shows, animated shows and movies, video games. Comics are not as important to marketing and selling these guys as they once were.

I do think this weekly idea from DC could take off though. Combine it with online reading and weekly titles it could capture a market and anticipation almost like a weekly tv show.

[Sirnotappearinginthisthread]

i think if they would have just introduced the same character we have now and named him john smith those people would have groaned about it not being wally, but moved on or hoped he came back in a different fashion

bahahahahahaha

[GlennSimpson]

Maybe they are victims of their own success in TV and movies? What I mean is since there are so many other mediums in which to follow these characters adventures that the comic medium is becoming and outdated way in which to see them? Prior to becoming huge in movies and TV shows the only way you could follow your favorite hero was in comics Now you can play through a comic on x-box. Or fight other comic characters on x-box. Or follow them in the movies or on a weekly tv show. Overall I dont think these characters have ever had the exposure they do now. Movies, weekly tv shows, animated shows and movies, video games. Comics are not as important to marketing and selling these guys as they once were.

I do think this weekly idea from DC could take off though. Combine it with online reading and weekly titles it could capture a market and anticipation almost like a weekly tv show.

I think the main problem is, even with digital, people don't know where to find these stories. You have to pretty much understand that digital comics exist and intentionally download the Comixology app or go to the site. You have to stumble across a comic book shop, or you have to be bored enough to wander around the bookstore and find the Graphic Novel section. There's no advertising for it, nothing putting it in front of someone's face when they aren't expecting it.

That said, there's also a big difference between the movie-going or TV-watching audience and the group of people who will actually READ things. Reading for pleasure is just about becoming a niche hobby in and of itself, it seems like. So whatever they were to do to advertise, they would need to be very targeted or they would be wasting a lot of money.

[MikeCr]

August will be the last month I pick up any DC Universe titles.

[...]

After decades of reading, I've just finally met the end of my endurance. It's time for a clean break.

1) Congratulations.

2) Why'd it take so long? (You seem to have lost enjoyment years ago based on the tone of your post.)

I didn't buy an DC comics for years. I'll happily be back any time they publish anything that excites me the way 7 Soldiers of Victory or All-Star Superman did. Hopefully with talent I'm discovering for the first time.

Good luck DC, I don't not want you to succeed.

[steeplejack2112]

I gotta go with "yes" here too. I liked my last car. I like my current car. They aren't the same, but I like them both for different reasons and because they are the same in all the ways that matter.

I understand what you're saying, but let me tell you this....I've been driving the same vehicle for almost fifteen years, and I still love it. I don't feel I need to change anything unless it's very necessary. So relating that to comics, I don't feel I needed any kind of changes for something I already loved. If you needed a change then fine. I should have worded my earlier statement differently as to not include ALL readers of the old DCU. I will admit that not everyone hates what's going on right now.

[Lee Stone]

Good post. Both Marvel and DC are in a tough situation. Seemingly, their characters have rarely been this popular - maybe the 40's and early 90's? But while sales are going up to some degree it's nothing compared to the flood of people seeing the movies/TV Shows. Avengers, Iron Man, Superman, Captain America and Green Arrow are all coming off of or have highly successful movies or TV shows, but really don't sell well at all. And some of those books are quality. Why is that? Is it the company's fault, is it the medium itself, is it society, is it the younger demographics preferences? Probably a combination of all of the above. But I know both companies are trying desperately to tap into the huge pool of potential fans that have been created -just w/o a ton of success, yet

I agree with a lot of this.

DC and Marvel both have themselves sitting just outside of a gold mine but can't seem to figure out how to connect one to the other.

A perfect example would be the Young Justice cartoon. A cartoon that had a larger viewership than most of their comics. And yet, it wasn't taken advantage of.

DC New52 may have been said to have been intended to bring in new readers but I don't think it succeeded in that regard. Unless new readers only care about Batman and Green Lantern. Cause that's where their sales are. And that's where they were before the reboot.

First, they need (NEED) to target the 9 to 14 age group. In their main titles. Not in a JonnyDC imprint that no one cares to check out previews for.
So, that age group is more interested in games than comics?
This is an age group that would play Batman Arkham Asylum/City/Origins.

So, maybe they just don't read?
There's several Young Adult fantasy novels out, such as Harry Potter and Percy Jackson.
They devour these.

So what is the stigma with comics?
Why can't comics get new younger readers?

First of all they're not written for them.
They're written for adults that want the comics to be so edgy that they won't feel embarrassed for reading them.
Comics have pushed so hard to be taken serious, with phrases like "not just for kids anymore", that kids are no longer even in the picture.

The Marvel Cinematic Universe and the X-Men films have both succeeded in doing something that the comics only wish they could do: Acquire a mass audience.

Until the comics are written with an approach to appeal to a wider audience, and marketed as such, the number of readers will continue to diminish.

And for the record, "wider audience" means younger than 30, older than 40, multi-racial and females, too.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

The Marvel Cinematic Universe and the X-Men films have both succeeded in doing something that the comics only wish they could do: Acquire a mass audience.

Dude. this was accomplished looooooong before the MCU and the X-Men films came into the picture. Ever since the release of Superman: the Movie in 1978, the superhero genre have been part a staple for Hollywood to go to whenever they need a new blockbuster movie.

[Joe Kalicki]

Eh, I don't really think that's the case. The editorial conflicts are more than likely responsible for driving away talent and wrecking. Take the examples of Joshua Fialkov on Green Lantern Corps and Blackman and Williams' Batwoman. Their Batwoman was probably the single best run on a Bat-female's title I've ever seen in my lifetime. And look what happened because of editorial.

Those are a couple isolated examples, as opposed to the entire rest of the line. And I couldn't disagree more on Batwoman, which I'm enjoying quite a bit more with Andreyko.

When you look at it, its really the books that have been given freedom from editorial over interference that are the better one of their line. The system that DC has now is basically one where certain writers, who have built up enough credit with the editorial staff, are the ones whose books are pretty free from interference. For example, I doubt that anyone at DC editorial is gonna interfere with Geoff Johns’ plans or Brian Azzarello’s or Scott Snyder’s or Jeff Lemire’s. Its because writers like those guys have been proven to produce quality product and/or draw in customers.

This is pure speculation on your part. You have no way of knowing what kind of editorial control is exerted on any given title.

That sort of system, though, means that everyone else is subject to mucking in their books until they prove that they are able to produce really good/high-selling stuff. That has a way of driving away talent, and that’s something that needs to stop.

Why does it need to stop? If the talent can't work in the system, they don't belong in the system. The system, which has been incredibly successful for numerous books, isn't going to change because one person doesn't like it. It's not like there's a dearth of talent at DC, they've got the best stable of creators around as far as I'm concerned.

[nightrider]

I find it strange that posters find a need to tell the world they're gonna stop reading and create a thread about it.

[Lee Stone]

I find it strange that posters find a need to tell the world they're gonna stop reading and create a thread about it.

I'm sure he just needed to feel closure.
Also, it helps that he voiced his reasons thoughtfully.
Who knows... maybe someone from DC actually read it.

[Poe]

I gave up on the new 52 after giving it a go the first full year. Nothing resonated with me, and the changes that were made were in my opinion just pointless pandering. I get what they were trying to do, but from flashpoint forward, nothing but crap. I check back every once in a while to see if maybe someone has come to their senses, but it hasn't yet and doesn't seem likely in the near future. So, the only DC I've purchased since the zero month has been Smallville, which I like for no reason that I can figure.

[Neowing]

New52 is dumb and is not new anything but something ugly inbetween.

They have made the same mistakes with the characters as in the old universe. Superman is even more OP cuz he now can benchpress earth 5 times wtf? How are we readers supposed to take anything this guy does seriously when he does that?

I was hoping they would ground a lot of these characters and change things up. Make these heroes feel new andd fresh again

[GlennSimpson]

I understand what you're saying, but let me tell you this....I've been driving the same vehicle for almost fifteen years, and I still love it. I don't feel I need to change anything unless it's very necessary. So relating that to comics, I don't feel I needed any kind of changes for something I already loved. If you needed a change then fine. I should have worded my earlier statement differently as to not include ALL readers of the old DCU. I will admit that not everyone hates what's going on right now.

Well, it's not that I felt like it needed to change in order to make me happy, but I recognize that it needed to change for them to continue publishing, and I don't consider the changes to be significant enough for me not to enjoy what they are doing now as much as I enjoyed what they did before. And I admit it's fun having the metaphorical garage cleaned out and then only put the important stuff back in...

[Chris Lang]

There was a lot of good that could have come from the New 52. But unfortunately, DC rushed into it without proper planning.

To me, the ideal solution would have been to do a complete reboot with NOTHING from the past still in play until it was established in a New 52 story. All of the pre-Flashpoint stories and stuff should have been shunted off to a separate Earth, and maybe in five or ten years could be re-introduced in a crossover between the Earths.

That's how I would have done it. All in all, it sounds like a FAR better means of doing it than they way DC did it. The whole 'shunted off to a seperate Earth' thing would allow the writers of the individual books to give proper wrapups to ongoing story threads before the old world gets de-emphasized in favor of the new.

And yes, really the ideal way of handing the New 52 was to not use anything from the past in it until it was established in a New 52 story. The Sinestro Corps Wars? Unless you're willing to show just when it, and the events leading up to it, happened in the New 52, don't mention it. Ditto for any other events (No Man's Land, Battle for the Cowl, etcetera) of the individual titles.

Really, if you're going to re-boot a comic book universe, you have to put in as much effort into it as possible. You can't half-donkey it. You have to know who everyone is in the new reality, their relations with the other characters, and their status quo. You have to have ALL that straight before you begin in earnest.

In short, you can't just make it up as you go along. And while I haven't been reading much of the new 52, everything I've seen and heard indicates that 'making it up as they go along' is precisely what they're doing. And that's the WRONG way to go about it.

[Joe Kalicki]

I disagree. Mapping everything out ahead of time just leeches the creativity away. Leaving things open for the writers to decide what they want to use or not as the stories dictate should make for better stories.

Nothing did happen until referenced in a New 52 book as it is now.