The return of the Mighty Mighty New 52 Discussion thread

[PyroTwilight]

There's been quite a few let downs but Teen Titans+ Red Hood and the Outlaws have probably been the hugest let downs.

I'm not sure how you can make a bad book with Starfire, Red Hood and Arsenal teaming up and yet here we are.

Teen Titans had good ideas but just plain bad follow throughs with nearly everything. Hell they lost Skitter for how long?

[Lee Stone]

There's been quite a few let downs but Teen Titans+ Red Hood and the Outlaws have probably been the hugest let downs.

I'm not sure how you can make a bad book with Starfire, Red Hood and Arsenal teaming up and yet here we are.

Teen Titans had good ideas but just plain bad follow throughs with nearly everything. Hell they lost Skitter for how long?

I'm a firm believer that they should have modeled the New52 Titans off the Young Justice cartoon that was big at the time.

[nightw1ng]

Really? I'm just picking on the Fantastic Four because it's easy - you really think through their now 6th attempt to relaunch that series that those earlier books are still in any kind of continuity that can reasonably be called that? OK, then

Funny how you mention the Fantastic Four, because this latest relaunch under Robinson has already had several callbacks to previous stories from several different eras.
For example:
- Hickman's Future Foundation, the student kids, Susan's status as an Atlantean emissary
- Ben discussing his on/off-again relationship with Alicia
- Johnny mentioning his ex-wife Lyja, a skrull who posed as Alicia in the 80s/90s
- Franklin creating a pocket universe during Heroes Reborn
- Valeria upset at her father's actions in Fraction's run

I know you're automatically anti-Marvel, but I don't see how you can argue a lack of continuity in their books.

[AlexanderLuthor]

Funny how you mention the Fantastic Four, because this latest relaunch under Robinson has already had several callbacks to previous stories from several different eras.
For example:
- Hickman's Future Foundation, the student kids, Susan's status as an Atlantean emissary
- Ben discussing his on/off-again relationship with Alicia
- Johnny mentioning his ex-wife Lyja, a skrull who posed as Alicia in the 80s/90s
- Franklin creating a pocket universe during Heroes Reborn
- Valeria upset at her father's actions in Fraction's run

I know you're automatically anti-Marvel, but I don't see how you can argue a lack of continuity in their books.

Eh, what? Anti-Marvel? I buy all of their books so probably not. I just find it ridiculous when people act like the companies are so different. They are both giant corporations, who are subsidiaries of even bigger corporations, who have passed back and forth editors and writers like hotcakes over the years. If you want to count those references fine, but you do realize the FF has been around for longer than a few years right? The FF you see now is in no way in continuity with the late 70s FF - come on. But if you do want to count that then we have to say the New 52 is not a reboot. Due to the 5 year time skip all of those previous DC stories happened in New 52 continuity unless directly contradicted. For instance, Superman just fought Doomsday...again. Well, we haven't seen him in the New 52 before now and they reference Superman dying at the hands of Doomsday...that happened in 1992. So was the New 52 not a reboot?

[BohemiaDrinker]

And you do realize that because of the 5 year time jump most of the JLA stories from the Silver Age through Morrison and Waid's runs are considered to have happened...many have been referenced.

You're kidding, right?

[AlexanderLuthor]

You're kidding, right?

Uhhhh, no. There have been references to them fighting Starro and Amazo - that happened during the Silver Age. Unless it's contradicted, you can assume some version of every story in the previous continuity happened during the 5 year time skip from when the JL was founded (JL #1-6) to present day (JL #7). That's DC policy. Do you think they all just hung around a shot the **** for 5 years?

And since you're into correcting people your tag should either say "I just got rebooted" to "I've just gotten rebooted" not "I've just got rebooted"

[BohemiaDrinker]

Uhhhh, no. There have been references to them fighting Starro and Amazo - that happened during the Silver Age. Unless it's contradicted, you can assume some version of the previous continuity happened during the 5 year time skip from when the JL was founded (JL #1-6) to present day (JL #7). That's DC policy. Do you think they all just hung around for 5 years?

Starro, Amazo, even the Appelaxians or whatever "classic" stuff sure happened in some form.

But Morrison and Waid? All of it is out. From line ups to the threats they faced to everything else, is just plain impossible to transplant pretty much any of those stories into Nu52 continuity.

[Kuwagaton]

This is almost exactly everything I was going to say. I would have added the Joker, the endings to all of Snyder's Batman Epics, and his entire Requiem issue.

I didn't list it because it's doing very well in sales, but I kind of feel like Snyder's Batman is a parody. I dropped it after a few issues, and the next thing I saw was that scene with Alfred getting tortured. Thinking about it too long will make me laugh or cry, not sure which.

1. Stormwatch- A title with a real chance to shake the status quo. Bringing that group into the DCU, with Martian Manhunter as a member, was clearly set up as a rival to the Justice League. It even went so far as to give us a brief scene of Apollo fighting Superman. Then that promise was all washed away. Manhunter left the team. Stormwatch was only to deal with external alien threats. They were removed from the rest of the DCU and by the time of Forever Evil, they were forgotten. The creative team changes didn't help and the reboot of the reboot with Starlin was a desperation move. All in all, a great idea that came to nothing.

2. Ron Marz removed from Voodoo. This was the beginning of the end for me and the Nu52. I bought the title from the reboot because of Marz. He was removed after four issues even after he agreed to make changes in the book demanded by editorial. This was the first of many creative/editorial clashes which seriously blunted any momentum of the reboot.

Agreed. Stormwatch was DC playing hot potato with a dud, and I was enjoying Voodoo and Legion Lost until the writers were suddenly off.

[Hamdinger]

Ales Kot booted off Suicide Squad.

Those issues really had me excited for the series and then it got taken out back like a mafia hit.

[Sacred Knight]

Why is it DC can't do what Marvel does?

You don't see Marvel completely rewriting it's history every few years! You don't see Marvel destroying decades of continuity just because it would make their lives simpler and maybe attract new readers! You don't see Marvel alienating huge chunks of its fan base by completely recreating characters with decades of history behind them! If Marvel needs to retweak something they do slight retcons or even big ones like they did for Spider-Man in OMD, but they never ever rewrite the entire history of their Universe! And it has worked out wonderfully for them! WHY CAN'T DC DO THAT!?!?!?!

Because each company goes about cleaning up their history in different ways. Don't delude yourself, Marvel does destroy its own continuity, they just go about it in a different manner. The occasional slight and large retcons you admitted they do? That's screwing with their continuity. That's rewriting their history. Any way you slice it. They just haven't ever done everything wholesale at once before.

And frankly I prefer DC's method of wholesale overhauls every few decades.

[Neowing]

Dude. Read the OP's comments. He doesn't even mention the New 52. He's talking about the endless cycle of event after event after event.

Also, in regards to your comments about Superman, its simple. They give him villains that are either as powerful as he is (which they have) or who challenge him in non-physical ways (which they have).

So? I'm just telling why I have also lost faith in DC like most people in this thread.

Also if you can't see the problem of Superman bench pressing earth, then u got some studies to do. You can't just give give him more powerful enemies, that won't solve anything. How are supposed to take any threats seriously when hes with the JLA? If he can bench press earth, he could fix Gotham and stop crime in general.

[beetee]

Because each company goes about cleaning up their history in different ways. Don't delude yourself, Marvel does destroy its own continuity, they just go about it in a different manner. The occasional slight and large retcons you admitted they do? That's screwing with their continuity. That's rewriting their history. Any way you slice it. They just haven't ever done everything wholesale at once before.

And frankly I prefer DC's method of wholesale overhauls every few decades.

Not me. Marvel's method can be haphazard at times, but it doesn't treat it's history as poison like DC's been doing since the first crisis. The real problem for me is that DC always wants to go back to point one. How many Effin' times does Krypton have to blow up?

[PennyDreadful]

Well, sales disagree with you.

Well, here are the sales figures for April. DC fell way behind Marvel.

I never believed that the reboot was about reimagining the DCU or telling exciting stories or breathing new life into the characters. And...well...exactly the things I suspected would happen have happened. And I'm someone who tried to like it, even had an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality at first.

I wish they'd take "The New 52!" off every. single. one. of their covers. It's not new anymore, guys. I have a theory, though, why it's still there.

[PennyDreadful]

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but...

If Jim Lee is so busy with his co-publisher duties that he has trouble meeting deadlines for an ongoing, then he shouldn't be doing an ongoing series. Period. These are called ongoing books for a reason. Readers expect them to continue publishing. If he is in over his head, he could step aside and let another artist take over. If he wants to keep doing art, he could do covers or the occasional miniseries.

Sorry, but "other responsibilities" is no excuse. You can't overcommit yourself and you shouldn't expect a project to falter if you can't deliver. That's bad business. As a businessman, Lee should know better. Period.

[Lee Stone]

Well, here are the sales figures for April. DC fell way behind Marvel.

I never believed that the reboot was about reimagining the DCU or telling exciting stories or breathing new life into the characters. And...well...exactly the things I suspected would happen have happened. And I'm someone who tried to like it, even had an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality at first.

I wish they'd take "The New 52!" off every. single. one. of their covers. It's not new anymore, guys. I have a theory, though, why it's still there.

I, for one, would love to hear your theory...