The return of the Mighty Mighty New 52 Discussion thread

[Kid A]

Marvel doesn't explicitly reboot, but they have no problem implicitly throwing out chunks of continuity as they see fit. The recent past is obviously canon, but everything else is a toss up. And then you have the X-Men, which is a convoluted disaster of continuity porn, of which some characters are still beholden to. DC has a crap ton of problems right now, but the idea of a reboot wasn't really a problem in of itself, it's how they alienated creators on these books that's the problem. I'll take a clean slate reboot over Marvel's approach. I'm a fan of Spider-Man and X-Men, but I won't read those books again until there's a reboot. Unless you actually age the characters and/or pass to the next generation, which won't ever happen in mainstream DC/Marvel continuity, I just don't want to read about characters who are beholden to decades old convoluted stories.

It doesn't mean I don't respect what the original creators did, but it's that I think those stories should exist in their time frame. I don't need Jack Kirby's Fantastic Four timeline sliding to take place in the 90s. It's perfect as the product of the Cold War space race era that it is. After all, there's not a whole lot of disagreement in that other thread about New Frontier being the best DCU story.

[R0NIN]

True.
You could virtually pick up any Marvel TPB and take it at face value. Any changes that were made were usually off-panel or behind the scenes (ie: 'this happened between panels 4 & 5' or 'this was going on at the same time as this').
With DC, if you pick up a TPB, you generally have to replace one or more characters or invalidate the whole story.

This leads to:
1. An easier access for new Marvel readers as they can pick up any TPB and it'll go with whatever new comic they just started to read. While, over at DC, a new reader will have to have a "guide" to help make sure they know which ones are in continuity.
2. The separation that occurs with rebooting also causes a competing market for the older stuff. While Marvel's current comics and past comics work hand-in-hand and new readers can cross over from one to the other, DC's pre-reboot stuff has become like a totally separate company that just stopped publishing a few years ago. The major drawback is that New52 DC has 3 years of material vs. Pre52's (which varies depending on what series/character you compare).

You could say this happened to DC when they did Crisis in 1985, also. However, the new comics were still being sold on newsstands at the time. So the average new reader wouldn't have anything pre-Crisis to choose from. Only those that went to comic shops.

These days, the new comics can be purchased digitally or at comic shops. But alongside the conflicting versions from Pre52. So a new reader could pick up a New52 title or an older one that has been "erased". Before they are aware that there's a difference.

DC's New52 versions of Pre52 DC are kind of like comparing the Dynamite Shadow vs. the DC Shadow or the Dark Horse Star Wars vs. the Marvel Star Wars. Or IDW Star Trek vs. DC Star Trek. They may look the same but they're not.
If a reader connects with the one version, they may not care for the other.

Of course, DC also has the tendency to make their animated versions wildly different, too, which leads to even more confusion for new readers who may come in from seeing the cartoons.

Basically, as this goes on, the readership becomes splintered since DC obviously can't publish comics featuring every version of their characters/teams to accommodate. So it seems they go through cycles focusing on one version at a time, while introducing even more new versions that contradict what came before.

Very well said. I can't for the life of me figure out the cartoon side of it either. I just don't understand how that makes business sense. For example the new 52 and Young Justice came out about the same time. It was a universe reboot in the comics, and YJ presented a unique take on the "Titans" that incorporated all the version that were popular. Why wouldn't they have just started off the new 52 just like the Young Justice show? Then it could have been super easy to transition tv viewers over to comic readers. Fine opportunity squandered oh well learn for your mistakes right? But then after the comic Teen Titans failed why reboot it with the same characters it failed with instead of making it the most well known team that has a bug fanbase thanks to a successful TV series that last 5 seasons and was recently brought back and is in it's second new season? Obviously that team is profitable and has it's fans. I just don't get why they wouldn't captilize on it. DC is the other end of the spectrum for Media synergy, while Marvel tries to tie everything in together as much as possible and make everything easy to jump into to. Though doing that has it's own issues as well (namely going from Avenger's Earth's Mightiest Heroes to Avengers Assemble) it at least makes sense from a business point of view.

[vitamin]

Nah, that was a nice decision.

His run didn't really say anything important.

Cronysm isn't nice.

It seems like you didn't read his run at all.

[Rakzo]

Cronysm isn't nice.

It seems like you didn't read his run at all.

I actually did and created several threads and topics about it.

It didn't tell anything valuable, at all.

[vitamin]

I actually did and created several threads and topics about it.

It didn't tell anything valuable, at all.

It told of the world we live in today, of love, body dysmorphia, sloppy aardvark, subliminal techniques, black humor, independent and resourceful Harley, rational woman trusting a psychopath who calls her mommy and many other beautiful bits and pieces.

But then again you have to read between the lines and immerse yourself in it, not just skim through the funny pages and take it at a face value.

[R0NIN]

[byrd156]

Pretty much the entire reboot as a whole. Though the biggest letdown for me was the sense of history and legacy. I know its a reboot and they kinda got rid of all the history. It bothers me on so many levels that the original 5 Titans were never the Titans and that most of them don't even exist. Dick is reduced to some loner who doesn't know anyone outside of the Bat-family. Donna and Garth don't even exist, Wally is 12, and Roy is back to the days were he was just a complete jerk all the time. As for the sense of legacy, being a Robin doesn't mean anything anymore because 2 of them died and the other faked his death when his identity was revealed.(Tim doesn't count because he was only Red Robin) The first person to become Kid Flash is some Bart Allen rip-off and the first Wonder Girl is constantly angry and hates superhero names and team names because.....

Also why are the Nu52 Teen Titans called the Teen Titans? Donna Troy came up with the Titans part from the Titans of myth and Wally came up with the Teen part. If the new Wonder Girl doesn't like superhero names and team names where did the team name come from in the nu52?

[Colossus1980]

The Teen Titans.
No JSA.
Legion of Superheroes(although the comic was decent, there's no more fan base)

And after all these comic waves, still no Cyborg. There are a lot of chances being taken on other solo comic titles, but none for him. To me that makes no sense. Katana, Vibe, Mr. Terrific, Larfleeze, were given a chance to shine. Cyborg? Let's wait till the tenth year of 52.

[Rakzo]

It told of the world we live in today, of love, body dysmorphia, sloppy aardvark, subliminal techniques, black humor, independent and resourceful Harley, rational woman trusting a psychopath who calls her mommy and many other beautiful bits and pieces.

Should have been more clear: It didn't tell anything valuable in a good way. Being pretentious and awkward is not something good.

Also, Harley was pretty independent and resourceful in Adam Glass' run.

But then again you have to read between the lines and immerse yourself in it, not just skim through the funny pages and take it at a face value.

I immersed myself on it and I got out with an overwhelming feeling of "meh".

[Joe Kalicki]

I liked Kot's run on Suicide Squad, but I liked Glass's too and just saw Kot's as an extension of that. Not too different at all.

[Rakzo]

I liked Kot's run on Suicide Squad, but I liked Glass's too and just saw Kot's as an extension of that. Not too different at all.

Yeah, I wouldn't say that Kot's run wasn't bad overall but it wasn't the kind of greatness that some people profess.

His stories were pretty decompressed, often with unnatural dialogue that attracted more attention to the style instead of its proper content.

[vitamin]

Should have been more clear: It didn't tell anything valuable in a good way. Being pretentious and awkward is not something good.

Also, Harley was pretty independent and resourceful in Adam Glass' run.

You can say all you want about Kot's run, but pretentious it was not. I get the feeling pretentious is more like your attitude toward it.
And awkward and strange can be good.

I didn't read Glass' run, but thanks for rec.

I immersed myself on it and I got out with an overwhelming feeling of "meh".

You should've immersed yourself IN it, not ON it.

[Rakzo]

You can say all you want about Kot's run, but pretentious it was not. I get the feeling pretentious is more like your attitude toward it.
And awkward and strange can be good.

Yeah right, that's the typical argument against it.

I didn't read Glass' run, but thanks for rec.

You're welcome.

Honestly.

You should've immersed yourself IN it, not ON it.

My bad.

[AlexanderLuthor]

Given some of the stuff we've been talking about in this thread, I thought it was ironic that the buzz out of the Las Vegas retailers conference is that Hickman's "Time Runs Out" story in Avengers and New Avengers will lead to the rebooting of the Marvel Universe

[Rakzo]

Given some of the stuff we've been talking about in this thread, I thought it was ironic that the buzz out of the Las Vegas retailers conference is that Hickman's "Time Runs Out" story in Avengers and New Avengers will lead tot the rebooting of the Marvel Universe

Yeah, I wonder what's the whole deal about that?

Why even bother with the whole Marvel Now campaing?