The return of the Mighty Mighty New 52 Discussion thread

[GlennSimpson]

1. Agreed. They should have finished old storylines in the old universe and NOT have them bleed over into the new espeically Batman Incorporated.

2. Agreed. They needed to plan much further ahead than they apparently did and needed a more unified approach. The characters they introduced and re-introduced were ill-concieved and, often, poorly timed.

3. I think that was the purpose of 5 years later. It's a clever idea that solves many issues if done correctly.
We do not need to know everything that happened in the first 5 years; however, they do need to have a fairly accurate understanding what occured in this time period and I don't think TPTB organized their thinking in this area.

I miss my beloved characters also. Maybe the next crisis will clean up some of this mess. (Yeah, right.)

Why do you think they didn't do those things?

[MajorHoy]

You shouldn't have to look on Wikipedia

WHAT?!?

Somebody else feels this way, too? Who knew!

[steelmax73]

not a big fan of the changes to the top tier characters. on the other hand some of the minor characters did need some work. hopefully we don't have another crisis of infinite continuity reconstruction

[cgh]

Actually, to many people, the CoIE reboot was good for Superman. We had a Ma and Pa Kent alive when Clark was Superman, which seemed sacrilegious since that had never been done before as part of regular continuity, but it added new layers and humanity to the character.

You also had the "Triangle Era", when Superman was appearing practically weekly with his four separate titles, and the triangles on the cover made it clear the proper order to read the books in. Also, while all four books were by separate writers and artists, there was a very good sense of continuity between the different titles . . . something affecting Superman in one book wasn't necessarily ignored / contradicted in another Superman book.

I know a lot of people liked post-Crisis Superman. I wasn't really one of them - I never got into the Byrne reboot and I preferred Superman as a being who was more or less alone, so no Kents. The dual tragedy of losing both sets of parents was important to the character, in my view. Maybe I'm just a stick in the mud.

Back to the New 52 improvements, t-shirt and jeans Superman was pretty awesome, let's face it.

[RobinFan4880]

The New 52 was and is a great idea. The execution and forethought were off though. They really should have given all creative teams six months to wrap up all of their stories. Then spent two or three months with Flashpoint, then launched the brand new universe.

The higher ups needed to establish a firm history of the universe. Not everything needed to be listed out, just the major things - when characters first appeared, how often they appeared, establish relationships (friendships, dating, deaths, etc.) and where the characters are in the present. After you have that settled, DC should have set a handful of titles in the "5 years ago" era to showcase the backstory to the world (most especially Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Justice League (as well as a digital first Secret Origins series)) and the rest of the titles set in present. The higher ups should have encouraged lots of collaboration between creators on the titles set in the past and the present. After a year or a year and a half, all of the titles set in the past should have been bumped up to the present.

Having said that, if DC had just ended all previous stories and not allowed them to bleed into the new universe, it would have made for a more coherent world.

At the same time though, I understand why they were hesitant about doing that given that the Lantern and Batman Families were their best selling titles and there was no guarantee that the reboot would have proven as popular as it did.

Back to the New 52 improvements, t-shirt and jeans Superman was pretty awesome, let's face it.

He should have stayed around for years and years.

I've never understood that whole "It's too confusing thing", I've found that generally when you're starting at the start of a new story arc it should be easy enough. I don't like big reboots, I think they're lazy writing but I hate a lot of the editorial decisions DC have made since the reboot. Thing is though, reboot or not those decisions would still have been made and we'd still be getting the same quality (or lack of quality) books.

It is a change in culture. People don't jump into a new show in the middle of season 4; they go to Netflix and start with episode #1 and catch up. People want to do the same thing with comics because they do not understand how the medium is different than TV.

Yeah X-Men's convoluted history is a turn-off for me, and all the #1's in the world won't change that. I'd only read X-Men again if Marvel did a New 52 style reboot.

At the very least I was hoping Marvel would reset the Ultimate Universe during all that Cataclysm stuff so I could at least read that, but nope.

I am the exact opposite. The biggest draw to the X-Men (for me) is the long history. It becomes way too boring to read FF, Avengers and Spider-Man because every five (or less) years we get a soft reboot that resets everything to the status quo.

[scary harpy]

Why do you think they didn't do those things?

I think they rushed into this. The project was too last minute I suspect.

I wish the would schedule a Crisis reboot every 15 years. They would know it was coming and have time to really think it through.

[GlennSimpson]

I think they rushed into this. The project was too last minute I suspect.

I wish the would schedule a Crisis reboot every 15 years. They would know it was coming and have time to really think it through.

Do you think they rushed on purpose, or were there external factors that led to the rush?

[Joe Kalicki]

I've been reading DC comics since the late 80s and was highly invested in that universe, but I still love the New 52. The important thing is that the quality is high. That's a lot more important than the continuity being there. These books now, and the universe they're building, is just really good.

[Odin]

I know this may be a bit of a firestorm. But I like the new 52. I was a marvel reader that got to lost in the complicated story lines. You had to read 5 books to understand the story (ie avengers dissemble, civil war, house of m, planet hulk, secret invasion, dark avengers, Thor, just to understand seige). It was crazy

New 52 allowed me to start fresh and pick it up at number 1s. I bought back issues of justice league, omac, justice leage of America, all on ebay. I'm current and I like it.

Glad dc did the new 52

There's definitely some great stuff in the New 52 right now. But there was/is a lot of stuff that, well, isn't. Still, it worked as a way to get new fans into the fold while, at least at the start, not being overly complicated. I almost wish they had wiped the entire slate clean instead of cherry picking what they wanted to keep in continuity but some of it did work. It's been an up and down ride, for me, going from over 35 books down to 1 (GREEN ARROW) and now back to 8 or 9 DC books on my pull list. Still, I think Marvel is really stepping up and, at least for right now, have quality that surpasses the majority of DC's line. I sure wish DC would knock off the gimmicks and just focus on good books though...

[Jphu8414]

Whew! I thought I was one of the few people who is actually a big fan of New 52, sure there have been some stinkers and some interesting creative decisions (to say the least) but I would say my experience has been a positive one overall. I have been as happy of a fan as ever

[Joe Kalicki]

There's not a single comic company that only produces hits, so it's no surprise that a few of the New 52 books aren't to everyone's taste. I think some people believe that every comic made should appeal to them, when in fact these companies are going for a more varied audience. So if you don't like some of the books they publish, it doesn't mean they're failing, it just means they're making books for more than just one person.

[My Two Cents]

I have been reading comics since the 60's
Was buying a few every week once I had a full time job
Around 2002 I was starting to not collect and just read, because of
all the re-launches and changes and events that were starting to happen more.
By 2011 I was down to collecting no Marvel (reading just 1-2 a month)
and collecting a handful of D C Comics.

I decided I would use the New 52 to try and find the passion and fun I once had for reading comics
and following some favorite characters, I have also used Marvel One and phase two to attempt renewal
of my love for following there Universe.

Year two had some bumps and annoyances in the New 52, but now I feel D C has found the right people
with enough talent to compete with other publishers, and people who are on the same page.
This has given raise to most of the New 52 titles across the board (there are a few duds for sure, but even they have some strong merits)

I am currently reading 10-13 New 52 books a week (a few I will jump on and off and on again)
But, for the most part, I always go into the comic shop each week planning to buy most of the New 52 books available for that week.

I do feel there is much D C needs to tighten up on and others they need to stop going back to.
But over all I have more interest and from that fun following and reading D C Comics then most
other companies titles.

Looking forward to seeing Doom Patrol in Justice League this Summer.
Also hope Geoff Johns can do for Superman what he did for Aquaman in the New 52

[Mia]

You shouldn't have to look on Wikipedia

And neither should you expect a comic book to sum up years of continuity in so that you can understand it. Although I’ve noticed that some Marvel books do offer a re-cap. As I mentioned above many of the events of supplementary books don’t factor into main events. Or if they are included there will be a small blurb referencing it. At least I find that it happens in Marvel books.

The New 52 was and is a great idea. The execution and forethought were off though. They really should have given all creative teams six months to wrap up all of their stories. Then spent two or three months with Flashpoint, then launched the brand new universe.

I was never a big DC reader to begin with. But what annoyed me about the re-launch was changes that they made to some of the characters. I just found that some of the things that made many of the characters I loved appealing to me were gone. The books were just not as sophisticated as they were before. For example with Batman and the situation with the Court of Owls. Under the pre-Nu52, there was no way on earth that the COO could have operated as long as they did without Bruce Wayne/Batman investigating it. The behaviour did not mesh with the behaviour from a man who is shrewd and always alert. And I won’t even touch what they did to Nightwing.

I am the exact opposite. The biggest draw to the X-Men (for me) is the long history. It becomes way too boring to read FF, Avengers and Spider-Man because every five (or less) years we get a soft reboot that resets everything to the status quo.

Agreed. Part of what I love about the X-Men (and many Marvel books), is the rich history. It makes for much more full-filling reading.

I also found that it was a lot of fun to go back and dig through old issues or books or find out from other readers on forums, about a characters history, or other situations they were in. There’s no appeal for me in investing time and money on some simplistic story that I can read in 10 minutes and feel no compulsion to re-read. Part of the fun from reading (for me at least) is that it makes you think. Where’s the fun if you need to be spoon fed everything?

That being said you really don’t need to know everything about a characters history to understand a present story arc. Because often when a new creative team changes, often the character changes as well. Further they are often treated like new characters or their past histories are not drawn into the present story.

[ultradav]

There are good things that came out of the nu52, but for me the cons outweigh the pros. I recognize there has been a cultural change, with short attention spans ruling the day. So comics with long histories can be off-putting for some. But, then I don't think it matters with a good story. Game Of Thrones is exceptionally convoluted, but very popular. Back to comics, there were many times when age-old comics drew in readers and the long history didn't hurt them, so I'm not sure I buy that argument completely. Good writers make anything work.

Further what is the implication: are we looking at new reboots every five years or so to accommodate those who find things too "confusing"? In a year or two from now, one will have to pick up quite a few comics to understand current story-lines in the not-so-new 52.

[Conway]

As a marketing tool it is a huge success. As a reboot, many titles felt like parts of ongoing stories.

Really, I find it interesting that two and a half years later we're still talking about continuity problems that most of us feel should have been worked out before the reboot. Especially when you consider how long they knew the reboot was coming. Even after the CBR reboot, one of the first Batman threads was about the things that aren't going right with the Batman reboot.