The return of the Mighty Mighty New 52 Discussion thread

[Dataweaver]

Yes, it is. Rebirth is building on N52 by bringing back elements that N52 dropped (like the original Teen Titans); but it's adding them in, not substituting them in.

[cray_ws]

nevermind, I've changed my mind.

[andersonh1]

I'm just glad the New 52 is over. What a disappointing era of DC for me. It was a universe of strangers that I had no emotional investment in. Of all the things I thought could make me stop caring about DC, I never thought it would be DC comics itself that would do it. Thank goodness they've changed course.

[nightrider]

"Why do the trunks not "hold up with the times"? What exactly is the problem with them? And don't tell me "nobody wears them" because nobody dresses in a blue body suit and red cape and boots either.

It's a superhero costume. It's the original superhero costume. It's not real clothing, it's not bound to the ever-changing fashion trends of real life. It's nothing like real life clothing. How exactly can it become outdated?"

Just gonna comment on your signature.
Costume does change overtime. Having a blue spandex body suit and trunks with belt doesn't resonate with the audience anymore. The problem isn't nobody wears them, it is that the costume is just too dated in this current world that we live in.
In MOS, it was explained that the suit was of Kryptonian origins and the material and cape used seems perfectly fine and sits well with this era. Yes it is only a costume but if you're not gonna move on with times, your fans are going to.

[byrd156]

Just gonna comment on your signature.
Costume does change overtime. Having a blue spandex body suit and trunks with belt doesn't resonate with the audience anymore. The problem isn't nobody wears them, it is that the costume is just too dated in this current world that we live in.
In MOS, it was explained that the suit was of Kryptonian origins and the material and cape used seems perfectly fine and sits well with this era. Yes it is only a costume but if you're not gonna move on with times, your fans are going to.

This makes absolutely no sense to me, one of the reasons Supes costume works so well is because its timeless. The costume could work in any era and still look like it belongs there. Would anyone get so upset that they would leave comics if Superman started wearing pants with a red crotch area? They aren't trunks, they just look like it.

[andersonh1]

Having a blue spandex body suit and trunks with belt doesn't resonate with the audience anymore.

It resonates with some of the audience, or else no one would complain when they're gone.

The problem isn't nobody wears them, it is that the costume is just too dated in this current world that we live in.

Why? I've never seen anyone give a satisfactory explaination for why they're "dated".

This makes absolutely no sense to me, one of the reasons Supes costume works so well is because its timeless. The costume could work in any era and still look like it belongs there.

Agreed. My opinion is that most people have no problem with it, it's simply "what Superman wears". A few smart-alecks make fun of it, and DC is suddenly self-concious.

As glad as I am to have post-Crisis Superman back, his new costume (which has not been explained... why wouldn't he use his traditional costume?) continues to distract me. I suppose I'll get used to it, but it will never be quite right.

[Vericc]

I'm not really bothered either way by supes' trunks but what really annoys me is the lack of red boots. There's just too much blue for my liking.

[geomon]

With the exception of trunks and other trivialities, at last our long national nightmare is over.

[mr_crisp]

It resonates with some of the audience, or else no one would complain when they're gone.



Why? I've never seen anyone give a satisfactory explaination for why they're "dated".



Agreed. My opinion is that most people have no problem with it, it's simply "what Superman wears". A few smart-alecks make fun of it, and DC is suddenly self-concious.

As glad as I am to have post-Crisis Superman back, his new costume (which has not been explained... why wouldn't he use his traditional costume?) continues to distract me. I suppose I'll get used to it, but it will never be quite right.

The trunks are outdated because people say they are outdated.

[ekrolo2]

Rebirth is an interesting reverse of N52 so far.

N52s best books at launch were Action and Batman, both of which are the absolute shittest Rebirth books. Action is barely a comic and Tom King's run personifies everything wrong with the whole notion of trying to suck Batman off while simultaneously flaunt how he's better than the others because he's human.

N52 only had high points or low points with nothing really in-between. Almost all of Rebirth is at the very least decent at worst to pretty good at best but there's nothing blowing me away yet. The best chance for a knock your socks off Rebirth title is probably the upcoming All-Star Batman with Snyder & co.

[GlennSimpson]

I'm just glad the New 52 is over. What a disappointing era of DC for me. It was a universe of strangers that I had no emotional investment in. Of all the things I thought could make me stop caring about DC, I never thought it would be DC comics itself that would do it. Thank goodness they've changed course.

Can you clarify what "New52" is over? Because the actual new52 history and continuity is still what is being read about currently.

[andersonh1]

Can you clarify what "New52" is over? Because the actual new52 history and continuity is still what is being read about currently.

Yes, though the history is subject to change as the Rebirth storyline goes on, and the "10 years was stolen from us" plotline plays out. But the New 52 branding is gone, the New 52 Superman is gone, the often bleak tone of the New 52 is mostly gone, the "no marriages" rule of the New 52 is gone, and the attempt to simplify and excise most legacy characters from DC that we got from the New 52 is definitely gone. The attitude that DC needed to cater to new readers and diversify the characters at the expense of loyal, long-term fans is gone. The whole line seems to have done a 180, and if sales are any indication, people are responding well. Of course, the New 52 started out with great sales as well, so we'll see how it goes long term.

[Dataweaver]

@GlennSimpson: Wait; weren't you the guy who said that it's the stories being told that matters, not what the continuity is? As andersonh1 rightly points out, the kind of stories being told in Rebirth are a near-complete reversal of the kinds of stories that characterized the New52. Rebirth is arguably just as significant of a break from New52 as New52 was from the post-IC DCU; it differs only in that there hasn't (yet?) been a cosmic timeline reset as the justification for the changes.

[GlennSimpson]

@GlennSimpson: Wait; weren't you the guy who said that it's the stories being told that matters, not what the continuity is? As andersonh1 rightly points out, the kind of stories being told in Rebirth are a near-complete reversal of the kinds of stories that characterized the New52. Rebirth is arguably just as significant of a break from New52 as New52 was from the post-IC DCU; it differs only in that there hasn't (yet?) been a cosmic timeline reset as the justification for the changes.

But I'm not seeing a tremendous change there either. It's like they said that's what they were going to do and that's all it took to convince people. They brought back Wally West and threw in a few marriages and relationships and people lose their minds. Batman is no different. Sure, GL is getting back to the status quo in one book (as far as we can tell) but the other one is featuring two Lanterns created in the New52. Flash is moving forward with the "New52" version of Wally West. Green Arrow is hooking up with Black Canary, but still telling the same sorts of stories it was before. Cyborg is still a founding JL member and doesn't have a connection to the Titans. Nightwing is a Titan again but I doubt that will have any bearing on his solo book. They are bringing back Ted Kord, but in a capacity that he was ever in before - mentor. These are all certainly entertaining directions but it's not that different.

More importantly, I get irritated when people act like DC feels that the New52 was bad or wrong so they completely ended it and went back to pre-Flashpoint are are calling that "Rebirth". They didn't. They are just tweaking the New52 a little to bring back an element or two that got lost.

In terms of the "story being what matters", what I probably meant was that something that happened in a story 20 years ago is irrelevant to a story being told today unless there is specifically something about that story mentioned. So if that story isn't mentioned, what difference does it make if the story was deleted from the character's history or not? The counter-point always seems to be "the development of the character over time has led to now", but I find it hard to believe writers are looking at the character in the long-term like that. Most of the writers haven't even necessarily read the character in the long term. I believe the writers are getting a rough general impression of the character and moving on from there, which means the details of the past don't matter.

Overall, I guess it doesn't matter what makes people buy comics, but it just frustrates me when people get all high-and-mighty about buying comics for reasons that are entirely in their heads, not reflected in reality.

[Rod G]

But I'm not seeing a tremendous change there either. It's like they said that's what they were going to do and that's all it took to convince people. They brought back Wally West and threw in a few marriages and relationships and people lose their minds. Batman is no different. Sure, GL is getting back to the status quo in one book (as far as we can tell) but the other one is featuring two Lanterns created in the New52. Flash is moving forward with the "New52" version of Wally West. Green Arrow is hooking up with Black Canary, but still telling the same sorts of stories it was before. Cyborg is still a founding JL member and doesn't have a connection to the Titans. Nightwing is a Titan again but I doubt that will have any bearing on his solo book. They are bringing back Ted Kord, but in a capacity that he was ever in before - mentor. These are all certainly entertaining directions but it's not that different.

More importantly, I get irritated when people act like DC feels that the New52 was bad or wrong so they completely ended it and went back to pre-Flashpoint are are calling that "Rebirth". They didn't. They are just tweaking the New52 a little to bring back an element or two that got lost.

In terms of the "story being what matters", what I probably meant was that something that happened in a story 20 years ago is irrelevant to a story being told today unless there is specifically something about that story mentioned. So if that story isn't mentioned, what difference does it make if the story was deleted from the character's history or not? The counter-point always seems to be "the development of the character over time has led to now", but I find it hard to believe writers are looking at the character in the long-term like that. Most of the writers haven't even necessarily read the character in the long term. I believe the writers are getting a rough general impression of the character and moving on from there, which means the details of the past don't matter.

Overall, I guess it doesn't matter what makes people buy comics, but it just frustrates me when people get all high-and-mighty about buying comics for reasons that are entirely in their heads, not reflected in reality.

You make quite the point there, and a very good one.