Dune discussion (parts 1 and 2)

[AnakinFlair]

I searched, and though I swear there was one, I couldn't find a Dune thread.

I went and saw Part 2 in IMAX today, and came out of it with mixed feelings. Overall, it's a beautiful film. You could take a snapshot of any scene and frame it for your wall. The story, however, fell short IMO.

While the first movie felt at times like they were stretching things out, the second movie really condenses the story. I think this is where it's a bad thing that I both saw and enjoy (and have rewatched several times) the Dune miniseries that was on the SciFi network years ago. With a miniseries, you really got to know characters more than you can in a movie (or even two movies in this case). It also had an easier time showing the passage of time.

spoilers:

In the miniseries, it's clear that it was several years between the fall of House Atreides and Paul's victory over House Harkonnen and ascension to Emperor. We know this because Paul's sister, Aliya, is born and is about 5 years old at that final battle. In Dune part 2, it can only be between 7-8 months, as Jessica is still pregnant.

end of spoilers

Characters also don't get much time to shine. Princess Irulan is a tiny role in the book, IIRC, and she doesn't have much to do here either, but she is featured well. Christopher Walken and the Emperor, on the other hand, I think had 5 lines and just looked old and feeble most of the time he was on the screen. The Baron, who had such an over-the-top presence in the miniseries, barely did anything at all and was a major disappointment for me. Even Jessica's role was diminished in this movie.

It's not to say it was bad. This movie felt more about how Jessica, and to a lesser degree Paul (until the end of the movie), used religion to manipulate the Fremen. There are actually a few scenes that got laughs from the audience that dealt with that through Stillgar. For as little as she did, I enjoyed Florence Pugh as Irulan, and this movie clarified to me that she was also a member of the Bene Gesserit, which I never really got before. Ghetty Prime had a very different look to it that was beautiful to look at. And almost everyone who got time to gave really good performances.

Overall, it was a very good movie, and I look forward to getting it on 4K so I can watch both parts at home back to back. In the meantime, I'm going to go back to the book (I haven't read it in about 20 years) to see if the ending in the movie is the same as the book.

[batnbreakfast]

A friend of mine wants to drag me into the movie but I prefer to watch such a looong thing in the comfort of my own home. Are we still getting the Bene Gesserit show and will there be more movies adapting the sequel novels?

[choptop]

I don't remember much about part 1 haven't see part 2 yet I like the 80s 1 better.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Yeah, the pacing was super weird on this one.

Is there no talk of a Part 3?

[ZeroBG82]

Yeah, the pacing was super weird on this one.

Is there no talk of a Part 3?

Depends on how this one performs. D.V. has said that he's writing a third script, but there is no deal in place to make it until they see how Part 2 performs.

That said, the movie appears ready to make bank, so I kind of expect a green light on Messiah shortly if that holds.

Also, sounds like D.V. is out after Messiah, as he wants to tell Paul's story. So who knows if we'll ever see Children or God Emperor.

[krazijoe]

A man wanted to see ‘Dune 2’ before he died. The director sent his laptop.

[Moon Ronin]

I think what Dune Part:2 is that it was so condensed. Part:1 was was the first book with in Dune "Dune" where as Part:2 is book 2 "Maud'Dib" and Part:3 "Prophet" combined. I'm sure that DV doesn't want to spend to the rest of his life making Frank Hebert's story so I can see why this was done. Some of the choices will make Messiah interesting if it happens.

[Mister Mets]

With the box office and reviews for this one, I suspect "Messiah" will happen.

It was a good movie, but it felt like the middle of a trilogy.

[Scott Taylor]

Well I just saw it. Overly long and bloated with way too much talking about nothing. Very cool scene when the Fremen finally took out the Harkonnens but not worth muddling through sixty million years of Stilgar or someone else saying "he is the one!" or seeing how water of life is made (its not important enough) or seeing Feyd Ruatha fight some numbnuts or seeing Feyd Ruatha get talked about more or anything with Fremen whispering or worshiping or laughing and talking about stupid unnecessary stuff or any number of extraneous scenes for whatever reason. Get to the point already DV!

Both of these movies should have been just one movie, and the next one Dune Messiah, and so on. Learn from the Harry Potter movies, one movie per book, along with the mistake of splitting the last one into two movies. I swear if the next movie is all about the Jihad, I'm out. The Jihad is covered in like two sentences in the books, I don't need to see it play out.

The 1980s version was more compact and had flaws but is more digestable and not such a slog. And I think Sting was a better Feyd if only for the fact that he didn't require 5,000 hours of set up in order to "get" the character.

Oddly the standouts for me were still the characters and actors - especially Princess Irulan, Maud-dib, Gurney Halleck, and Chani. Lady Jessica, Feyd Ruatha, Yuen, the Emporer, Dabban, Stilgar, random Harkonnen flunkies, and all the unnamed Fremen got waaaaaay too much screentime for what they do in the movie - which is basically nothing.

[BeastieRunner]

Messiah is the best of the books and really caps off Paul's story.

So excited that we might finally get to see it.

This is the first place I've seen overwhelming negativity about the movie.

I'm excited to have good sci-fi back on the big screen.

I was happy with it and it's the best adaptation we'll get for probably 50+ years. There were some changes to the timeline but they made sense for a movie and made that character more creepy IMHO. The visual language in the movie was beautiful as was the music.

My ideal Dune adaptation has always been Part One and Two chapters combined, Part three as a full movie (the Prophet section) and Messiah as the capper movie. While they didn't go that route, the timeline change was a good choice. And I actually enjoyed the change to the Freman.

Can't wait for Ghola Momoa.

[BeastieRunner]

I searched, and though I swear there was one, I couldn't find a Dune thread.

I went and saw Part 2 in IMAX today, and came out of it with mixed feelings. Overall, it's a beautiful film. You could take a snapshot of any scene and frame it for your wall. The story, however, fell short IMO.

While the first movie felt at times like they were stretching things out, the second movie really condenses the story. I think this is where it's a bad thing that I both saw and enjoy (and have rewatched several times) the Dune miniseries that was on the SciFi network years ago. With a miniseries, you really got to know characters more than you can in a movie (or even two movies in this case). It also had an easier time showing the passage of time.

spoilers:

In the miniseries, it's clear that it was several years between the fall of House Atreides and Paul's victory over House Harkonnen and ascension to Emperor. We know this because Paul's sister, Aliya, is born and is about 5 years old at that final battle. In Dune part 2, it can only be between 7-8 months, as Jessica is still pregnant.

end of spoilers

Characters also don't get much time to shine. Princess Irulan is a tiny role in the book, IIRC, and she doesn't have much to do here either, but she is featured well. Christopher Walken and the Emperor, on the other hand, I think had 5 lines and just looked old and feeble most of the time he was on the screen. The Baron, who had such an over-the-top presence in the miniseries, barely did anything at all and was a major disappointment for me. Even Jessica's role was diminished in this movie.

It's not to say it was bad. This movie felt more about how Jessica, and to a lesser degree Paul (until the end of the movie), used religion to manipulate the Fremen. There are actually a few scenes that got laughs from the audience that dealt with that through Stillgar. For as little as she did, I enjoyed Florence Pugh as Irulan, and this movie clarified to me that she was also a member of the Bene Gesserit, which I never really got before. Ghetty Prime had a very different look to it that was beautiful to look at. And almost everyone who got time to gave really good performances.

Overall, it was a very good movie, and I look forward to getting it on 4K so I can watch both parts at home back to back. In the meantime, I'm going to go back to the book (I haven't read it in about 20 years) to see if the ending in the movie is the same as the book.

The Princess shows up at the end of the book but she is the voice of the journal entries before each chapter. She's the chronicler of Paul Muad'dib.

The theme of the book was the danger of charismatic leaders, as was the movies. Jessica's role is a bit expanded in this part as she's part of the warning of charismatic leaders in film now. With the who's the traitor story completely gutted in part one, it was nice to see more Jessica is a slight update/reinterpreting of her role in part two. It will make her return to Dune with Gurny more problematic while pushing Aliah over the edge deeper IMHO.

The ending with Paul leading the Freman off on Muad'dib's Jihad is straight from the book. And so glad they outright called it a Holy War. I wish they played up Feyd poisoning his combatants.

[Scott Taylor]

The adaptation was good. Not meaning to make it seem bad. It was a bit long for me, thats all. Well, and ...

If I had my druthers - I'd have played up some more background elements such as the Butlerian Jihad. The concept is absolutely needed in understanding Herbert's world and why there are mentats and hardly any electronic devices around. Also I was let down by the lack of mention of the Weirding Way and how both Lady Jessica and Paul taught it to the Fremen, especially Chani. In the book, that was a key element to them endearing themselves to the Fremen, but the movie failed to really convey that connection except in a vague religious sense.

The movie looked great but lacked substance for the amount of thought-provoking material was in the book and how long it was. Not much to think about, it was basically an action movie, which is not truly appropriate for Dune.

[BeastieRunner]

The adaptation was good. Not meaning to make it seem bad. It was a bit long for me, thats all. Well, and ...

If I had my druthers - I'd have played up some more background elements such as the Butlerian Jihad. The concept is absolutely needed in understanding Herbert's world and why there are mentats and hardly any electronic devices around. Also I was let down by the lack of mention of the Weirding Way and how both Lady Jessica and Paul taught it to the Fremen, especially Chani. In the book, that was a key element to them endearing themselves to the Fremen, but the movie failed to really convey that connection except in a vague religious sense.

The movie looked great but lacked substance for the amount of thought-provoking material was in the book and how long it was. Not much to think about, it was basically an action movie, which is not truly appropriate for Dune.

I would say the warning arguments on charismatic leaders that exist in the books and movies were expanded upon with the addition of the dangers of political tribalism introduced by the movies.

[ChrisIII]

I liked both films and thought the original was ambitious but flawed but I'm not that familiar with the book stuff yet.


The arc of Paul kind of reminds me a bit of Michael Corleone, whose rise to power is caused by attacks on his family that erode his idealism and need to protect what family has left makes him sort of turn into a bad guy, alienating the woman closest to him (Kay/Chani).

[BeastieRunner]

I liked both films and thought the original was ambitious but flawed but I'm not that familiar with the book stuff yet.


The arc of Paul kind of reminds me a bit of Michael Corleone, whose rise to power is caused by attacks on his family that erode his idealism and need to protect what family has left makes him sort of turn into a bad guy, alienating the woman closest to him (Kay/Chani).

Wait till you get to Messiah!