WW '08 - The Gail Simone Era General Discussion

[Primal Slayer]

Thought it'd be fun to discuss Gail Simone specifics - the good, the bad, etc....Gail wrote the Vol.3 of WW for 33 issues (#13-44)
Previous Threads:
WW '87 - The Perez Era
WW '92 - The Messner-Loebs Era
Eric Luke Run (1998-2000) Discussion
John Byrne Run Discussion
BECKY CLOONAN/MICHAEL CONRAD RUN/ERA

[Gaius]

Her run had the opposite problem for me Rucka's first did; his didn't get a proper ending while she inherited a mess. So a lot of her run was spent fixing or having to work within a not-so-great status quo (Nemesis, secret I.D., decimated Themyscira). It's probably why one of my favorite Simone WW stories was the Conan crossover she did, it was largely unburdened by a continuity mess.

But there's good to be found. I think she has the best rounded voice for Diana, serious like Perez/Rucka but also having some comedy to her like the Golden Age. That "Don't kill if you can subdue" panel get shared around a lot, often annoyingly, but like that All-Star Superman panel (you know the one) you can see why.

I think after Veronica Cale, Alkyone is probably my favorite "new OC villain" we see with just about every WW writer. A villainous Amazon who adds some nuance to life on Themyscira but one who doesn't make the whole society look irredeemable like with every other attempt by DC to "dirty up" the Amazons.

I also thought Achilles is probably the best version of a "male Wonder Woman" there could reasonably be for such a dodgy idea. Probably because like with Diana he subverts some expectations one would have of him. I know some don't like the Gorillas but I enjoyed them and wouldn't mind seeing them pop up every now and then. She also low-key has my favorite version of Etta.

But there's stuff I obviously didn't like/care for. The Genocide arc was a slog and I read it collected, so I can only imagine what it must have felt like reading month-to-month. Nemesis is and will always be discount Steve. Ares being killed off and then coming back all messed felt like it should have been a bigger deal. And I also found it kind of odd Simone seemed to better with WW villains in other books (Cheetah in Secret Six, Giganta in the Atom) than actually in the WW book.

Overall, am a fan. Would be happy to see her on my more WW stuff if she did some.

[DisneyBoy]

She did contribute to the Sensation Comics book, so there's that.

I would have enjoyed seeing Achilles continue to evolve, but her run marked the end of the era that Perez began, so that wasn't to be.

It was great that she brought Etta back in, and I didn't mind Tom being a Steve follow-up of sorts. He still felt like his own character. Its just a shame their relationship moved so quickly and ended in such a weird way. But it was nice to see Diana with a boyfriend, bizarre circumstances aside.

I definitely didn't get the abrupt hacking of Ares, though.

Or the weird return of the Pantheon.

There was a lot in this run that was off-kilter, likely nothing to do with Gail though.

[HestiasHearth]

Despite its flaws (and what run doesn't have any flaws?), Gail Simone's WW voice is one of my top three favorites (in no particular order: Perez, Simone, Marston). Bar none.
I have always wanted for Simone to do some sort of WW Origin story today, unencumbered by her inheriting anybody else's continuity messes or mandated canonical details.
My perfect-world pairing with Simone writing would be Amanda Conner illustrating (while Marc Andreyko and Jesús Saiz write/draw a Helena Wayne Earth 2 Huntress back up).
A person can dream.

[Skytten]

Gail Simone is one of my favourite writers, but her Wonder Woman is one of the "weaker" books she has done for me. But I still enjoy it. As others have said her voice for Diana is probably the best and a lot of the things that is negative about the run is things she had to fix which she did well at, but that still is things I didn't enjoy even though she did her best. I know people here loves them, but I could not stand the gorillas.

[ComixGail]

Gail Simone is one of my favourite writers, but her Wonder Woman is one of the "weaker" books she has done for me. But I still enjoy it. As others have said her voice for Diana is probably the best and a lot of the things that is negative about the run is things she had to fix which she did well at, but that still is things I didn't enjoy even though she did her best. I know people here loves them, but I could not stand the gorillas.

Aw, I'm sorry you didn't love it, but I appreciate the kind words from all of you!

I liked the Gorilla Knights, I get how they wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. The idea was to incorporate all eras of Wonder Woman, like many readers,
it drove me bonkers how every new writer threw out the previous stuff. So I wanted to say, it all happened, if you liked a story, it happened. And the early
WW had a lot of absurdist stuff, so that was my tip of the tiara to that era.

Since my time on WW is long gone, I am happy to answer questions here about it, if you like. OR if it feels intrusive, I can start a different thread. Whatever works for everyone!

[Gaius]

Aw, I'm sorry you didn't love it, but I appreciate the kind words from all of you!

I liked the Gorilla Knights, I get how they wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. The idea was to incorporate all eras of Wonder Woman, like many readers,
it drove me bonkers how every new writer threw out the previous stuff. So I wanted to say, it all happened, if you liked a story, it happened. And the early
WW had a lot of absurdist stuff, so that was my tip of the tiara to that era.

Since my time on WW is long gone, I am happy to answer questions here about it, if you like. OR if it feels intrusive, I can start a different thread. Whatever works for everyone!

Keep forgetting actual writers/artists actually post here on this site.


Hope you don't mind me asking but your revamp of Silver Serpent near the end of your run has me wondering if there was any other overlooked/forgotten WW villains you wanted to tackle.

[Primal Slayer]

Aw, I'm sorry you didn't love it, but I appreciate the kind words from all of you!

I liked the Gorilla Knights, I get how they wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. The idea was to incorporate all eras of Wonder Woman, like many readers,
it drove me bonkers how every new writer threw out the previous stuff. So I wanted to say, it all happened, if you liked a story, it happened. And the early
WW had a lot of absurdist stuff, so that was my tip of the tiara to that era.

Since my time on WW is long gone, I am happy to answer questions here about it, if you like. OR if it feels intrusive, I can start a different thread. Whatever works for everyone!

Love that you're here! I think this would be the perfect place for questions as we discuss your run

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Aw, I'm sorry you didn't love it, but I appreciate the kind words from all of you!

I liked the Gorilla Knights, I get how they wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. The idea was to incorporate all eras of Wonder Woman, like many readers,
it drove me bonkers how every new writer threw out the previous stuff. So I wanted to say, it all happened, if you liked a story, it happened. And the early
WW had a lot of absurdist stuff, so that was my tip of the tiara to that era.

Since my time on WW is long gone, I am happy to answer questions here about it, if you like. OR if it feels intrusive, I can start a different thread. Whatever works for everyone!

Oh sweet! One element I was kinda confused on during your delightful run is how after promising Pele to make right Zeus' actions in murdering Kane Milohai....That plotline kinda just dropped and later Zeus would decide to just tour outer space. Was there more planned to this, or was there subtext I missed if I might ask?

[Garrac]

I think it's allways easy to go quick and fast and just pretend like the previous run didn't happen at all, but it actually requires some goddamn bravery to take the title after one of her worst moments and go like "Im going to fix this"

I have to re-read the run since I recently got the flashy omnibus (which you'll be able to buy from me from my cold dead hands) but I remember it as a fun adventure.

Usually I can't stop comparing the three golden age runs: Jimenez, Rucka, and Simone. I think Jimenez nailed the lorebuilding, Rucka nailed the message, but Gail Simone nailed Wonder Woman, or better said than ever, Diana. Under Simone's pen Wonder Woman makes jokes, gets serious when the job needs to be done, gets "wtf" reactions when seeing sex dolls of herself... she's fun, she's complex, but most of all, Simone's Diana is the version of the character that feels the most human to me

Don't get me wrong, her WW is still THE superheroinest. When she enters a room filled by an army of nazis, you know from second 0 that those fuckers don't stand a chance. But while she's at it she's having emotions on herself, both aspects allways compatible. Gail Simone's Wonder Woman is a character that will offer you her hands whenever she cans, but if ou come to punch her be prepared for your career to end there.

And also, you can never go wrong with elite nina talking gorillas.

[Skytten]

Aw, I'm sorry you didn't love it, but I appreciate the kind words from all of you!

I liked the Gorilla Knights, I get how they wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. The idea was to incorporate all eras of Wonder Woman, like many readers,
it drove me bonkers how every new writer threw out the previous stuff. So I wanted to say, it all happened, if you liked a story, it happened. And the early
WW had a lot of absurdist stuff, so that was my tip of the tiara to that era.

Since my time on WW is long gone, I am happy to answer questions here about it, if you like. OR if it feels intrusive, I can start a different thread. Whatever works for everyone!

You did as good of a job as you could considering the circumstances I think and even though not everything was my cup of tea I still enjoyed it and you having the perfect voice for Diana makes it so it is one of the best rereads especially since Diana has had pretty terrible portrayals for many years.

[bardkeep]

Aw, I'm sorry you didn't love it, but I appreciate the kind words from all of you!

I liked the Gorilla Knights, I get how they wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. The idea was to incorporate all eras of Wonder Woman, like many readers,
it drove me bonkers how every new writer threw out the previous stuff. So I wanted to say, it all happened, if you liked a story, it happened. And the early
WW had a lot of absurdist stuff, so that was my tip of the tiara to that era.

Since my time on WW is long gone, I am happy to answer questions here about it, if you like. OR if it feels intrusive, I can start a different thread. Whatever works for everyone!

Wow, cool to see you here! And for what it's worth, I'm a huge fan of the gorillas. The scene with them in the board room kills me.

The Circle is also one of my absolute favorites, so thanks for that. Superhero comics are often too self-referential and circular in their influence or they get too caught up in what they "should" be doing, so getting a story that has real human perspective stands out. I'm definitely not an "only women should write WW" person, but that and Historia are perfect examples of the kind of unique, special stories you can only get from women writers working specifically on Wonder Woman.

Hope we get to see you take her on again, and I'd especially love to see more Star Blossom!

I actually do have a few questions, if you're willing to answer -

Lots of people call out what a great job you did with Diana's voice (it's my favorite!). A lot of writers have spoken about how her voice is really difficult to nail, and a lot of takes on her lack personality as a result. Did you have a clear sense of what she "sounded" like going into the run or did you struggle to figure it out?

Was there anything you wanted to do that was hindered by the odd status quo you inherited (e.g. the Amazons being away from the island post-Amazons Attack, the whole super-spy deal)?

Looking at it in retrospect, is there anything specific that you wish you'd done differently?

[Bruce Wayne]

Probably one of the Top 4 runs of the Post-Crisis era and that's only because there were so many other strong candidates like Perez/Jimenez/Rucka and of course she absolutely inherited an editorial mess with the failed Heinberg run and Amazons Attack and still was able to make lemonade despite all the editorial problems.

[ComixGail]

Her run had the opposite problem for me Rucka's first did; his didn't get a proper ending while she inherited a mess. So a lot of her run was spent fixing or having to work within a not-so-great status quo (Nemesis, secret I.D., decimated Themyscira). It's probably why one of my favorite Simone WW stories was the Conan crossover she did, it was largely unburdened by a continuity mess.

But there's good to be found. I think she has the best rounded voice for Diana, serious like Perez/Rucka but also having some comedy to her like the Golden Age. That "Don't kill if you can subdue" panel get shared around a lot, often annoyingly, but like that All-Star Superman panel (you know the one) you can see why.

I think after Veronica Cale, Alkyone is probably my favorite "new OC villain" we see with just about every WW writer. A villainous Amazon who adds some nuance to life on Themyscira but one who doesn't make the whole society look irredeemable like with every other attempt by DC to "dirty up" the Amazons.

I also thought Achilles is probably the best version of a "male Wonder Woman" there could reasonably be for such a dodgy idea. Probably because like with Diana he subverts some expectations one would have of him. I know some don't like the Gorillas but I enjoyed them and wouldn't mind seeing them pop up every now and then. She also low-key has my favorite version of Etta.

But there's stuff I obviously didn't like/care for. The Genocide arc was a slog and I read it collected, so I can only imagine what it must have felt like reading month-to-month. Nemesis is and will always be discount Steve. Ares being killed off and then coming back all messed felt like it should have been a bigger deal. And I also found it kind of odd Simone seemed to better with WW villains in other books (Cheetah in Secret Six, Giganta in the Atom) than actually in the WW book.

Overall, am a fan. Would be happy to see her on my more WW stuff if she did some.

Fair about Genocide, that arc was NOT supposed to be quite so long. I think she's a good kind of villain for Diana to have, someone who is just a machine of chaos and pain, without the cunning of a lot of her other foes. But there was a mix-up in editorial, and they asked me to spend more time on the island, which I am absolutely positive they did not think through. I had time to plot to make it at least fit the pages, but I think it would have had more impact with a little less space. Also, I designed the costume, so that's not Aaron's fault. AND I designed it using character options from City of Heroes!

[ComixGail]

She did contribute to the Sensation Comics book, so there's that.

I would have enjoyed seeing Achilles continue to evolve, but her run marked the end of the era that Perez began, so that wasn't to be.

It was great that she brought Etta back in, and I didn't mind Tom being a Steve follow-up of sorts. He still felt like his own character. Its just a shame their relationship moved so quickly and ended in such a weird way. But it was nice to see Diana with a boyfriend, bizarre circumstances aside.

I definitely didn't get the abrupt hacking of Ares, though.

Or the weird return of the Pantheon.

There was a lot in this run that was off-kilter, likely nothing to do with Gail though.

Oh, ultimately, it all comes down to me, I don't want to throw blame for anything that didn't work on someone else, except for that bit with Genocide's story being extended.

I dug the sudden Ares thing.

Thanks for the kind words about Etta, I really ended up missing her after leaving the book. And Tom was a legacy character, he was brought in by the team before. But I really grew to like him!