Too...Many...Mutants

[French X-man]

Marvel should create a series that focuses on the life of mutants in general, integrate 1 or 2 a-lists or b-lists characters to attract readers and the rest of the little-used mutants.
And for me that's what was missed with the Krakoan era, out of 250,000 mutants we don't haven't seen half of the X-kids, Morlocks, Acolytes, ...
I hope that if they make an X-corp series as mentioned in infinity x-men to help the mutants, we will see more diverse characters.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Nah we need more as mutants are a species.

But titles like Academy X, District X etc would be a good way to spotlight the non-superhero mutants.

[wlfking]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, and I know there have been mutants galore in the Krakoa run, but am I the only one who thinks that too many mutant X-teams are diluting what made the X-Men special in the first place? It was a big deal when the original 5 found out about Havok and Polaris, and then Giant-Sized X-Men #1 (which is arguably one of the most important issues of the X-Men) introduced us to 7 new members - Sunfire, Banshee, Thunderbird, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and some guy from Canada. Years later there was another pop with the New Mutants. My point is that recently, new mutants, new X-Men, and new collaborators, pop up in so many issues that there doesn't seem to be any fanfare towards them, let alone character development.

Or am I sitting here on my porch yelling at clouds?

When I was younger . . . I probably would have a agreed. I only vaguely followed what was happening in the comics and enjoyed X-men mostly through the cartoon video-games and movies. I "heard" about that time Scarlet Witch wipped a bunch out and thought that was probably an ok thing to do. But now? Having actually read a number or runs(though not nearly as much as most on this site) and seeing the Krakoa era? Nah. My only issue is that there just doesn't seem to be enough time/panel space for a lot of them and the "new generation" characters are constantly kept from truly graduating most of the time.

[marhawkman]

Marvel should create a series that focuses on the life of mutants in general, integrate 1 or 2 a-lists or b-lists characters to attract readers and the rest of the little-used mutants.
And for me that's what was missed with the Krakoan era, out of 250,000 mutants we don't haven't seen half of the X-kids, Morlocks, Acolytes, ...
I hope that if they make an X-corp series as mentioned in infinity x-men to help the mutants, we will see more diverse characters.

Or X-Statix in general.... etc...

[Cap808]

I think in general, character development can only be attained when these characters are given enough page time for us, the readers, to care.

Also, waaaaay back when it was just the original 5, their uniqueness and the mystery surrounding them, made them feared and misunderstood. I always felt that was part of the legacy of the X-Men, and mutants in general.

[DragonsChi]

I think in general, character development can only be attained when these characters are given enough page time for us, the readers, to care.

I think this couldn't be more true. But I also don't think the way Marvel is being ran will support this. There are to many X-Characters and not enough books actually selling to get this done properly.

Which is why I said in an earlier post some of the "Main" X-Characters need to move on to other non-X titles long term.

[wlfking]

Actually meant to add that after reading Krakoa era stuff and about mutant circuits, it kinda made me want to see the nation as a playable campaign in a Star Craft style game.

[Grunty]

Actually meant to add that after reading Krakoa era stuff and about mutant circuits, it kinda made me want to see the nation as a playable campaign in a Starcraft style game.

Not to discourage any wishfull imaging of X-men video games, considering how starved the fandom has been for that over the past 2 decades and how much could be done with the IP, but how is that idea supposed to work in the context of a real time strategy game, considering these usualy require complete identical units, unit types or unit formations?

Even games like the Total War series of "epic" RTS, which often have a large variation of unit formations, still stick to a uniformity of roles. Classic small scale RTS games like Starcraft where the player builds individual units and then manualy groups them into formations are even more focused on each unit having a specific role and being always of the same quality.

And ay there's the rub when it comes to the mutants of the Marvel Universe, because by their very nature and role as easy source of super powers for various differet heros and villains, they are practically completely devoid of uniformity, not only in the powers they have but the extend by which they can use these powers. There is simply very little basis to create "generic" units of mutants when the whole point of the marvel mutants is that practically everyone has different versions of any super power imaginable.

Infact this is arguably why a "mutant" army always sounds impressive and fearsome on paper, but in actuality it would be a strategic and logistic nightmare, which writers and artist alike have arguably never been really able to make work.

Magneto had a mutant army in X-men the The Last Stand and there was a big deal made about how dangerous that was, but when it came down to the actual battle all the film makers could do, was to depict them as stupidly rushing at enemies armed with guns into a wild uncoordinated melee. The same happend in X-men red where the Arrakii civil war was primarily depicted as two big mosh pits of weird looking people being in a wild uncoordinated melee, with some dialoge suggesting a minescule of coordination of powers, which the art could not properly convey.

The reason for it sounding impressive is likely because viewers and readers will likely think of the great heros and then multiply them into formations standing in a line. Like 20 Wolverines in front, 10 Collosus forming a shield wall, 20 Cyclops standing behind them as firing line and 5 Storms in the back to unleash AOE attacks. Which in a video game would be rather immersion breaking, unless it's part of a story akin to Krakoa employing armies of clones or even chimeras, but then the whole story would be basicly imply an utter nightmarish state of things where no one is the good guy anymore and the world is screwed. Akin to total Annihilation.

If the X-men were meant to have a RTS style video game, it had to be designed around hero units akin to MOBA or Warcraft 3 but then can't really involve Krakoa as a nation or have a "mutant army" they are fighting for, because Krakoa can't have "generic" units.

But of course that's just my perspective.

Edit:
While thinking about it. A mutant nation would be a neat setup for a squad based strategy game with a roguelike (high degree of randomization every time the a game starts) element.

Like the player has to assemble their squad from computer generated mutants with different combination of appearances, powers, skills and traits, they can them customize and upgrade afterwards as they gain experience (though in terms of general appearance it would be better to have that unlocked all the time).

With the X-men themself being high leveled elite units the player has to unlock (or can only select one at the start) making assembling their dream team of the core heros a reward, though at which point they might have also grown fond of their "randos".

Maybe also grant the ability to "save" specific randomized mutants so they can appear in the next game as recuitable or selectable (albeit back at level 1).

Sure some players might then try to create a whole squad of Wolverine and Wolverine wannabes ("Wolverine and the Sknikt Bubs"). Or just create their favorit B- and C-listers as much as the game allows it. But that could very well be part of the appeal.

[wlfking]

Not to discourage any wishfull imaging of X-men video games, considering how starved the fandom has been for that over the past 2 decades and how much could be done with the IP, but how is that idea supposed to work in the context of a real time strategy game, considering these usualy require complete identical units, unit types or unit formations?

Even games like the Total War series of "epic" RTS, which often have a large variation of unit formations, still stick to a uniformity of roles. Classic small scale RTS games like Starcraft where the player builds individual units and then manualy groups them into formations are even more focused on each unit having a specific role and being always of the same quality.

And ay there's the rub when it comes to the mutants of the Marvel Universe, because by their very nature and role as easy source of super powers for various differet heros and villains, they are practically completely devoid of uniformity, not only in the powers they have but the extend by which they can use these powers. There is simply very little basis to create "generic" units of mutants when the whole point of the marvel mutants is that practically everyone has different versions of any super power imaginable.

Infact this is arguably why a "mutant" army always sounds impressive and fearsome on paper, but in actuality it would be a strategic and logistic nightmare, which writers and artist alike have arguably never been really able to make work.

Magneto had a mutant army in X-men the The Last Stand and there was a big deal made about how dangerous that was, but when it came down to the actual battle all the film makers could do, was to depict them as stupidly rushing at enemies armed with guns into a wild uncoordinated melee. The same happend in X-men red where the Arrakii civil war was primarily depicted as two big mosh pits of weird looking people being in a wild uncoordinated melee, with some dialoge suggesting a minescule of coordination of powers, which the art could not properly convey.

The reason for it sounding impressive is likely because viewers and readers will likely think of the great heros and then multiply them into formations standing in a line. Like 20 Wolverines in front, 10 Collosus forming a shield wall, 20 Cyclops standing behind them as firing line and 5 Storms in the back to unleash AOE attacks. Which in a video game would be rather immersion breaking, unless it's part of a story akin to Krakoa employing armies of clones or even chimeras, but then the whole story would be basicly imply an utter nightmarish state of things where no one is the good guy anymore and the world is screwed. Akin to total Annihilation.

If the X-men were meant to have a RTS style video game, it had to be designed around hero units akin to MOBA or Warcraft 3 but then can't really involve Krakoa as a nation or have a "mutant army" they are fighting for, because Krakoa can't have "generic" units.

But of course that's just my perspective.

Edit:
While thinking about it. A mutant nation would be a neat setup for a squad based strategy game with a roguelike (high degree of randomization every time the a game starts) element.

Like the player has to assemble their squad from computer generated mutants with different combination of appearances, powers, skills and traits, they can them customize and upgrade afterwards as they gain experience (though in terms of general appearance it would be better to have that unlocked all the time).

With the X-men themself being high leveled elite units the player has to unlock (or can only select one at the start) making assembling their dream team of the core heros a reward, though at which point they might have also grown fond of their "randos".

Maybe also grant the ability to "save" specific randomized mutants so they can appear in the next game as recuitable or selectable (albeit back at level 1).

Sure some players might then try to create a whole squad of Wolverine and Wolverine wannabes ("Wolverine and the Sknikt Bubs"). Or just create their favorit B- and C-listers as much as the game allows it. But that could very well be part of the appeal.

Huh. Good point.
Especially about possibility of the X-men being handled like "hero unit" characters in mobas. Still have yet to play through those X-Men Legends games though I've been meaning to. For over a decade now.

[marhawkman]

Huh. Good point.
Especially about possibility of the X-men being handled like "hero unit" characters in mobas. Still have yet to play through those X-Men Legends games though I've been meaning to. For over a decade now.

It's a variation of the "conservation of ninjutsu" concept... one superhero is amazing... an army is cannon fodder.

We see the opposite with Sentinels. A single Sentinel might get fought as a legit threat by a group of Mutants. But if you have an army of them like in X-men: TAS... you have stuff like a Sentinel getting one-shotted by Jubilee.

Oh right that was a later episode, but you get the idea...

[wlfking]

It's a variation of the "conservation of ninjutsu" concept... one superhero is amazing... an army is cannon fodder.

We see the opposite with Sentinels. A single Sentinel might get fought as a legit threat by a group of Mutants. But if you have an army of them like in X-men: TAS... you have stuff like a Sentinel getting one-shotted by Jubilee.

Oh right that was a later episode, but you get the idea...

Reminds me of something I'm seeing a lot of comics I'm reading right now. One character is knocked away by a powerful strike. Another characters takes their eyes off their opponent and helpfully shouts that character's name. They then gets smacked away by their own opponent. That bothering anyone else? Feel like I'm seeing it constantly.

[Cap808]

I think this couldn't be more true. But I also don't think the way Marvel is being ran will support this. There are to many X-Characters and not enough books actually selling to get this done properly.

Which is why I said in an earlier post some of the "Main" X-Characters need to move on to other non-X titles long term.

I agree, I think someone mentioned it earlier that Storm is way overdue to be on the main roster of the Avengers. Not to mention, I've always felt that Nightcrawler would really shine on another team's roster.

[DragonsChi]

I agree, I think someone mentioned it earlier that Storm is way overdue to be on the main roster of the Avengers. Not to mention, I've always felt that Nightcrawler would really shine on another team's roster.

I agree. Nightcrawler is another character who should never be in comic Limbo. Besides that the repetitive doom and gloom atmosphere of the X-Men has really morphed Kurt into a more serious and at time boring character. If he had sometime among the Avengers or was even more of a Main character there, he could have a place where we get the swashbuckler side of him.

[skyvolt2000]

I agree. Nightcrawler is another character who should never be in comic Limbo. Besides that the repetitive doom and gloom atmosphere of the X-Men has really morphed Kurt into a more serious and at time boring character. If he had sometime among the Avengers or was even more of a Main character there, he could have a place where we get the swashbuckler side of him.

But you are dealing with an X-Office that seems to take issue with their guys in other places.

See the saga of Black Panther. It's the X-Office that takes shot after shot after shot at T'Challa in some way or form.

Firestar-did she NOT benefit better under the New Warriors and Avengers?

If you did the best of her book-how much X-stuff would be in it?

And from a business standpoint-you have to do that.

I have met more folks who discovered Storm from McDuffie's Fantastic Four run. It was one of the most checked out books in the library unlike the X-books. That we no longer order because of disinterest. A disinterest that has lasted since the first X-Men movie.

[DragonsChi]

But you are dealing with an X-Office that seems to take issue with their guys in other places..

I know and understand that. But what I am essentially proposing is the person ,who shall not be named, that is in charge of all of the titles and the on-going success of Marvel change that.

It’s literally a simple “Hey this team can pull from this list of characters now” in a email and the change is made. Those who complain and can’t get with the program can be told to get over it or be shown the door.