Too...Many...Mutants

[taozen]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, and I know there have been mutants galore in the Krakoa run, but am I the only one who thinks that too many mutant X-teams are diluting what made the X-Men special in the first place? It was a big deal when the original 5 found out about Havok and Polaris, and then Giant-Sized X-Men #1 (which is arguably one of the most important issues of the X-Men) introduced us to 7 new members - Sunfire, Banshee, Thunderbird, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and some guy from Canada. Years later there was another pop with the New Mutants. My point is that recently, new mutants, new X-Men, and new collaborators, pop up in so many issues that there doesn't seem to be any fanfare towards them, let alone character development.

Or am I sitting here on my porch yelling at clouds?

I agree 100%. There so many character that so many characters barely show in books and only a handful of characters actually receiving any significant character development. I have mentioned this opinion myself in other threads.

[CGAR]

I don't understand the reference, but I can tell by your tone that it wasn't complimentary.

It’s not negative. It’s just the exact thinking that Quesada had that got us decimation. And then the repetitive extinction stories.

Are there a lot mutants yes but are we really gonna act like they all get used.

And it doesn’t help that every new writer and editorial team wants to leave their stamp so they add more when they should just be developing characters that were already created.

We don’t need another decimation.

[jubilees_bf]

No, you are right it's more then 10 but I am only counting the ones who stayed and Star'd in another title as we know them.

So in my mind...

Storm, only because of Black Panther. Showing up in one issue of the Avengers does not make you a real Avenger in my mind.

Angel, Beast, Iceman because of Champion's

Prodigy, Cyclops, Cannonball, Sunspot, as you mentioned on their teams

If you want to count Uncanny Avengers (To me that just felt like a X-Book with Captain America on the team) then you have Deadpool, Cable, Sunfire, Havok, Psylocke, Rogue, Monet.

Jubliee I guess counts even though she was basically a a different character and I will never consider that era a TRUE New Warriors team.

And Dazzler because of A-Force.

Nightcrawler because of his multiple solo tiles and the whole Spider-Man thing.

Gambit because of his solo tile.

Wolverine because of his solo and being on the Avengers.

Kitty because of the Guardians of the Galaxy

So we have 18 -20 well known X-Characters that have had some time away from the X-Men that weren't just short cameo's/staring roles. Out of 50...60... others characters.

Again, some characters would be better served if they spent time in other corners of the Marvel Universe in a real meaningful way. To a point where you see the character beyond just being a X-Character. To the point that when they come back to an X-book you know it is only a special appearance and they go back to where they where before.

Some of the X-Characters need to graduate from the school in a real way.

Jubilee was also guest starring in Patsy Walker: Hellcat for quite some time when she was a vampire. Was actually a very fun read. To a much lesser extent, she’s had one-shots with Captain America and appeared in Ghost Rider a few times.

[Drakeon]

My problem is characters don't really get much development these days. Comics have mostly been plot heavy rather than character focused.

[JamJams]

The problem is never number of mutants affecting the quality of character work.

The problem always lies with the writers not having enough time to properly flesh out the characters they are writing in any meaningful way because they need to drive sales and sales these days aren't driven by great narratives they're driven by the rosters on the book, the artist/writer on the book and the most important factor - which title is being worked on.

Even if they are the worst writer/artist combo possible, Uncanny X-Men will always outsell an Excellent X-Men comic or a Astonishing X-Men because Uncanny is always considered the flagship book, then X-Men is the second most important book and the rest are skippable.

While writing another issue with character development popped into my head which is - 'new writer, new lore'. The books are at the point that you can have a LOT of development with any given character but as soon as that run is over and the next one starts the incoming writer is not obligated to acknowledge any of those changes that were made. And the more popular the character the less development will stick for that reason, they're gonna have their idealized version of the character in their mind already and its going to be that one in the run. Which may be why so many people just make up characters that are similar to the more established ones because if they are establishing the cannon growth of that new character when new writers come in, if that character is used again then at least their storyline for that character will be the thing that sticks since it was the first.

[Devaishwarya]

Agreed with JJams.

With all the mutants around you can have at least...at least...5 very individual X-Books with very original themes supported by a cast of 7-8 characters each, plus guest stars. That's 35-40 characters in play. The problem really is getting good writers and artists who want to write and develop those characters and their stories for a longer duration than 12 months, without being sidetracked by unnecessary events and long-form storytelling mega plots.

Unfortunately...that publishing model isn't popular anymore because it's all sales driven and far less story/character driven.

[GoingGreen]

Another note on sales - writers continue to make money when their original creations are used by other writers. Creating more mutants is literally incentivized by industry standards.

[danielsan52]

I’d love to see a book featuring mutants that have never been X-Men.

Just like Nekra and the Exiles.

El Aguila, Lightbright, Skein, Justice, Timeslip should all be in a book.

[Lonewolf36]

I’d love to see a book featuring mutants that have never been X-Men.

Just like Nekra and the Exiles.

El Aguila, Lightbright, Skein, Justice, Timeslip should all be in a book.

Like all those!

[marhawkman]

My problem is characters don't really get much development these days. Comics have mostly been plot heavy rather than character focused.

Old-school Marvel would throw out "Mutant" as an excuse for a random villain to have a weird super-power, and not worry about it. Full backstory? nah... we can worry about that later. A story can't focus on every character, so a lot ended up with a one-liner as their backstory. Later writers might do more than that when using the character again. I like using Corben as an example... interesting character design... all we really know is she's a Mutant working for Romany Wisdom. We don't even know if Corben is her real name But Corben was a one-off villain in an X-Force comic, not the star.... despite getting on the cover of the only issue she was ever in.

BUT... if it's a hero who's the star of a book? well, that's different. :Þ

[skyvolt2000]

Agreed with JJams.

With all the mutants around you can have at least...at least...5 very individual X-Books with very original themes supported by a cast of 7-8 characters each, plus guest stars. That's 35-40 characters in play. The problem really is getting good writers and artists who want to write and develop those characters and their stories for a longer duration than 12 months, without being sidetracked by unnecessary events and long-form storytelling mega plots.

Unfortunately...that publishing model isn't popular anymore because it's all sales driven and far less story/character driven.

Those folks do exist.

However as you said stupid events derail too many books.

Along with certain parts of the fandom just hellbent on not giving certain writers a shot. Even if they have never read a single book by them and just listen to certain fans heresay.

There we have to talk rosters. We seen the shade fest tossed at certain folks like Synch.

And then there is another factor that is more DC Comicish then Marvel. What do you do with the character that gets used OUTSIDE of comics?

Bumblebee can find her way into video games and tv shows and toylines yet excluding Waid's Teen Titans book-has been MIA in comics.
Fully fleshed out Cyborg that is not hating his Daddy or dealing with Man versus Machines stories seems to only exist outside of comics.
Do we EVEN need to talk Raven and Beast Boy? Both with best selling graphic novels that have made everyone at Marvel their bytch in sales to teens?

How does Chris Muse get a novel and he's barely used in comics?

[Icefanatic]

Warning: Stream of consciousness:

Perhaps the thread should have rather been rather titled "too many mutant heros?", because that seems to be the actualy problem suggested.

In this regard. Yes there are arguably too many mutant heros.

Though more specifically there are too many heros and even villains who are too well developed and storied, that they each developed their own larger or smaller fanbases (and writers interested in using them) who want to see more of them.

Which wouldn't be a problem if there was enough "space" for them or more specifically if the limited space is actualy well curated, which it isn't.

Because the reason for all of these heros existing was the birth of the various satelite which gave them the space to develop.

The X-men begann with the 05, eventualy joined by Havok and Polaris.
Once the All New, All Different team was introduced the 05 were largely put on the backburner and since there was no nostalgia fueled pressure to have them constantly present yet by a permenantly stagnant buyership of the exact same generation, the ANAD team actualy was allowed to have room to "breath".
This team then begann to have it's own secondary characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.
Meanwhile the 05 then got their own title with X-factor, which would also have secondary characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.
Then New Mutants was launched, with a completely new team of characters, which would also have secondary characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.
Then Excalibur was launched using 3 characters of the main X-men team, which would also have secondary characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.
Then New Mutants became X-force, with some additional characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.
Then Generation X was launched, with a nearly completely new team of characters, which would also have secondary characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.

And then Excalibur was canceled and it's X-men members thrown back onto the main team, while it's original characters were thrown into limbo. Then X-factor was canceled and most of it's members thrown into limbo. Then X-force and Generation X were canceled and most of it's members thrown into limbo.

But hey. New X-men Acadamy was launched, with a nearly completely new team of characters, which would also have secondary characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.

...

And then everything went down the drain and now we are left with so many interesting characters, but a buyership, editorial and writers who are mostly interested or tasked with using the same 20 which were popular 40 years ago.

Worse as the still current editor flat out admit, they seem to have a mandate that every 10 years they need a "new hip generation of young characters" to go through the same "junior hero" stories, even though they flat out know there is no space for them afterwards.

All because the internal team continuities were destroyed, no character is ever allowed to stay dead, retire for good or progress to "major league" status permanently and yet they keep adding new characters for various reasons.

So yes. There are too many heros. But there is no going back. They exist. They are all treasure troves of (often still untapped) story potential and just cutting them off or throwing them in a bin Joe Quesada style is only worsening the problem, while tainting the appeal of product.

Because how is anyone supposed to care for new characters anymore if the past 30 years have demonstrated that nothing of worth will be done with them long term, while characters, who allready had their best stories told decades ago and are basicly stretched thin because of not being allowed to rest for a while?

Perhaps the biggest problem is simply that there is a continuity which is supposed to be kept going perpetualy, but no end point or conclusions is allowed to exist for any of the characters.

Scott and Jean stayed as prominent characters of the ANAD X-Men for years, even after Jean's death Scott still lead the team until his departure.

Bobby and Warren went off to found the Champions, Beast became an Avenger. The three of them eventually reunited in the New Defenders.

The fans wanted the 'surviving' 05 back together in some form all along. The only reason we even got the ANAD team was how strong the sales were for the X-Men during the 'reprint' years. Much like how Star Trek's popularity grew while in reruns in the 70's, which eventually gave us the films and other TV series. There was ALWAYS a 'nostalgia fueled pressure' as you call it because people who liked and loved those characters wanted to keep reading their stories.

New X-Men was the last team of new mutants introduced that I invested in. I realized after that that eventually they would mostly be consigned to limbo, used as cannon fodder in some event or at best one of them might 'graduate' to the X-Men for a bit.

Krakoa introduced a bunch of new mutants, a whole island of them. I can sort of partially remember one of their names and I hope to forget even that when this awful era is finally over.

[marhawkman]

Yeah Krakoa's premis of ALL the Mutants got messed up when they didn't even use all the existing ones.

[SturdyMike89]

Yes, there are too many mutants but mostly too many of the same mutants. Reading X-Men books in the last 10 years is a lot like listening to an IHeart classic radio station. You get the same 30 rotating mutants who get the big stories while the more interesting or underexposed characters are lucky if they get to appear in background scenes. It is to me telling that the book that seemed to get the biggest positive response in the last few years is Al Ewing's X-Men Red which featured a lot of new and different characters and took place in a whole new backdrop and situation.

[BroHomo]

Yes, there are too many mutants but mostly too many of the same mutants. Reading X-Men books in the last 10 years is a lot like listening to an IHeart classic radio station. You get the same 30 rotating mutants who get the big stories while the more interesting or underexposed characters are lucky if they get to appear in background scenes. It is to me telling that the book that seemed to get the biggest positive response in the last few years is Al Ewing's X-Men Red which featured a lot of new and different characters and took place in a whole new backdrop and situation.

Ugh Truth!