Too...Many...Mutants

[Cap808]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, and I know there have been mutants galore in the Krakoa run, but am I the only one who thinks that too many mutant X-teams are diluting what made the X-Men special in the first place? It was a big deal when the original 5 found out about Havok and Polaris, and then Giant-Sized X-Men #1 (which is arguably one of the most important issues of the X-Men) introduced us to 7 new members - Sunfire, Banshee, Thunderbird, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and some guy from Canada. Years later there was another pop with the New Mutants. My point is that recently, new mutants, new X-Men, and new collaborators, pop up in so many issues that there doesn't seem to be any fanfare towards them, let alone character development.

Or am I sitting here on my porch yelling at clouds?

[CGAR]

Ok Joe Quesada. Relax. Its not like all of them are being written. Its like the same 25 mutants.

[NewMutant]

One of the best aspects of the Krakoan era was the ability to balance the regulars to different corners and invest in some of the smaller characters. Which gave me more 90s vibe than the Gold / Blue era previously.

[Kingdom X]

I think the character development piece has far more to do with the fact that these writers aren’t getting more than a handful of issues to tell a story. They’re rushing through plot because they’re either assigned minis OR they’re afraid that they’ll get cancelled any second.

[DragonsChi]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, and I know there have been mutants galore in the Krakoa run, but am I the only one who thinks that too many mutant X-teams are diluting what made the X-Men special in the first place? It was a big deal when the original 5 found out about Havok and Polaris, and then Giant-Sized X-Men #1 (which is arguably one of the most important issues of the X-Men) introduced us to 7 new members - Sunfire, Banshee, Thunderbird, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and some guy from Canada. Years later there was another pop with the New Mutants. My point is that recently, new mutants, new X-Men, and new collaborators, pop up in so many issues that there doesn't seem to be any fanfare towards them, let alone character development.

Or am I sitting here on my porch yelling at clouds?

Agree with you on some level...


I would say that there may not be to many mutants but there are to many X-Men. Some of the "Main" X-Men characters should have moved on a long time ago. Storm for example, should have had a solo title and had started her beginnings as a mainstay on the Avengers way back when they started comparing her to Wonder Woman in the 90's.

A characters like Cypher, Prodigy, or Sage could have headed to SHIELD, Secret Avengers, or worked in some government capacity in universe. Jubliee, a character who never really fit in as a X-Men or a Gen X'er, could have been tested out as a New Warrior or Defender. Rachel Summers would be better served as a Cosmic character and is completely redundant hanging out with the X-Men.

So on and so forth.

The X-Men as a whole are just to bloated and the characters need to be moved around a bit.

In spite of how people like to ignore this but... Stan Lee created the X-Men/Mutant because he wanted to create superheroes but didn't want to explain how they go their powers. That was his WHOLE thought process behind them. That doesn't mean they should have been confided mostly to one section of the Marvel Universe.

[Maitogai]

While there are a ton of mutants, I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing as long as a good majority of them get some character work and development throughout the years. It’ll never happen, but I wish some more popular characters would sometimes get less focus as less popular characters get cycled in so that they can grow and develop their own fan bases. Not only that, but if creators were given more wiggle room with their runs and allowed to really cook and put the time into at least 10-12 issues, then I think we’d have more appreciation for the character work they do. All these minis don’t truly allow for some characters to actually get the page space they deserve.

To put it simply, a rotating cast of mutant characters would be what I’d prefer. Let everyone get a shot while some of the big guns take a backseat (for a limited time) since they’ve already had plenty of character-defining runs and page time.

But I’m aware that profit wise, it probably wouldn’t be efficient or effective right away—so it’s a pipe dream I guess.

[Chris0013]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, and I know there have been mutants galore in the Krakoa run, but am I the only one who thinks that too many mutant X-teams are diluting what made the X-Men special in the first place? It was a big deal when the original 5 found out about Havok and Polaris, and then Giant-Sized X-Men #1 (which is arguably one of the most important issues of the X-Men) introduced us to 7 new members - Sunfire, Banshee, Thunderbird, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and some guy from Canada. Years later there was another pop with the New Mutants. My point is that recently, new mutants, new X-Men, and new collaborators, pop up in so many issues that there doesn't seem to be any fanfare towards them, let alone character development.

Or am I sitting here on my porch yelling at clouds?

I have to agree....just too damn many. Especially some guy from Canada. No one really likes him....the guy from Canada...

But everyone does like Him.

[davetvs]

You're sitting on your porch yelling at clouds. That the X-Franchise has so many great characters is part of what makes it special. The Krakoan era has been amazing for the sheer breadth of characters we get to interact with.

In spite of how people like to ignore this but... Stan Lee created the X-Men/Mutant because he want to create superheroes but didn't want to explain how they go their powers. That was his WHOLE thought process behind them. That doesn't mean they should have been confided mostly to one section of the Marvel Universe.

Are the people in the room with us right now?

[ChronoRogue]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, and I know there have been mutants galore in the Krakoa run, but am I the only one who thinks that too many mutant X-teams are diluting what made the X-Men special in the first place? It was a big deal when the original 5 found out about Havok and Polaris, and then Giant-Sized X-Men #1 (which is arguably one of the most important issues of the X-Men) introduced us to 7 new members - Sunfire, Banshee, Thunderbird, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and some guy from Canada. Years later there was another pop with the New Mutants. My point is that recently, new mutants, new X-Men, and new collaborators, pop up in so many issues that there doesn't seem to be any fanfare towards them, let alone character development.

Or am I sitting here on my porch yelling at clouds?

I don't think having a small roster is what made the X-Men special. There are lots of teams with smaller rosters like the Fantastic Four, Inhumans, Runaways, New Warriors, Alpha Flight but most don't attain the level of popularity the X-Men or Avengers have.

A big roster of colorful characters is more of a good thing, I think. You have a lot of different personalities and combinations to play with, which can be a breathe of fresh air or nostalgic when combinations reappear again.

While there are a ton of mutants, I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing as long as a good majority of them get some character work and development throughout the years. It’ll never happen, but I wish some more popular characters would sometimes get less focus as less popular characters get cycled in so that they can grow and develop their own fan bases. Not only that, but if creators were given more wiggle room with their runs and allowed to really cook and put the time into at least 10-12 issues, then I think we’d have more appreciation for the character work they do. All these minis don’t truly allow for some characters to actually get the page space they deserve.

To put it simply, a rotating cast of mutant characters would be what I’d prefer. Let everyone get a shot while some of the big guns take a backseat (for a limited time) since they’ve already had plenty of character-defining runs and page time.

But I’m aware that profit wise, it probably wouldn’t be efficient or effective right away—so it’s a pipe dream I guess.

I do think new or different characters getting focus already happens naturally. There are always eras where certain characters get pushed, while others become supporting cast or even background. Fans of Rogue, Gambit, Colossus, etc... can tell you how we've felt about Krakoa for example.

Meanwhile a character like Kwannon and Synch have really been elevated in terms of use.

Either way, I think having a large comic line which the X-Books typically have covers this issue. People can pick and choose what to read, with new characters getting a bit of focus, while the regulars are still around in different books fulfilling different roles.

[DragonsChi]

Are the people in the room with us right now?

I was just saying in General. More so the creatives at Marvel.

I mean it's a little weird that we have all these X-Characters and maybe 6-10 have ever dipped a toe into the other area's of the Marvel Universe. I mean think about that... in 61 years of the X-Men being a team we have probably the same amount of characters that you can count on both hands actually playing a role that wasn't in a X-Book.

Am I really the only one that finds that odd?

[Cap808]

Ok Joe Quesada. Relax. Its not like all of them are being written. Its like the same 25 mutants.

I don't understand the reference, but I can tell by your tone that it wasn't complimentary.

[DragonsChi]

I don't understand the reference, but I can tell by your tone that it wasn't complimentary.

Joe Quesada had a big part in the "No More Mutants" (AkA Decimation) event .

[Rift]

They should get rid of characters, as long as they're not characters I personally like.

[danielsan52]

If mutants that exist were used instead of new ones constantly being created then we wouldn’t have this problem.

[Grunty]

Warning: Stream of consciousness:

Perhaps the thread should have rather been rather titled "too many mutant heros?", because that seems to be the actualy problem suggested.

In this regard. Yes there are arguably too many mutant heros.

Though more specifically there are too many heros and even villains who are too well developed and storied, that they each developed their own larger or smaller fanbases (and writers interested in using them) who want to see more of them.

Which wouldn't be a problem if there was enough "space" for them or more specifically if the limited space is actualy well curated, which it isn't.

Because the reason for all of these heros existing was the birth of the various satelite which gave them the space to develop.

The X-men begann with the 05, eventualy joined by Havok and Polaris.
Once the All New, All Different team was introduced the 05 were largely put on the backburner and since there was no nostalgia fueled pressure to have them constantly present yet by a permenantly stagnant buyership of the exact same generation, the ANAD team actualy was allowed to have room to "breath".
This team then begann to have it's own secondary characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.
Meanwhile the 05 then got their own title with X-factor, which would also have secondary characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.
Then New Mutants was launched, with a completely new team of characters, which would also have secondary characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.
Then Excalibur was launched using 3 characters of the main X-men team, which would also have secondary characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.
Then New Mutants became X-force, with some additional characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.
Then Generation X was launched, with a nearly completely new team of characters, which would also have secondary characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.

And then Excalibur was canceled and it's X-men members thrown back onto the main team, while it's original characters were thrown into limbo. Then X-factor was canceled and most of it's members thrown into limbo. Then X-force and Generation X were canceled and most of it's members thrown into limbo.

But hey. New X-men Acadamy was launched, with a nearly completely new team of characters, which would also have secondary characters and villains introduced, some which would eventualy get more development aswell.

...

And then everything went down the drain and now we are left with so many interesting characters, but a buyership, editorial and writers who are mostly interested or tasked with using the same 20 which were popular 40 years ago.

Worse as the still current editor flat out admit, they seem to have a mandate that every 10 years they need a "new hip generation of young characters" to go through the same "junior hero" stories, even though they flat out know there is no space for them afterwards.

All because the internal team continuities were destroyed, no character is ever allowed to stay dead, retire for good or progress to "major league" status permanently and yet they keep adding new characters for various reasons.

So yes. There are too many heros. But there is no going back. They exist. They are all treasure troves of (often still untapped) story potential and just cutting them off or throwing them in a bin Joe Quesada style is only worsening the problem, while tainting the appeal of product.

Because how is anyone supposed to care for new characters anymore if the past 30 years have demonstrated that nothing of worth will be done with them long term, while characters, who allready had their best stories told decades ago and are basicly stretched thin because of not being allowed to rest for a while?

Perhaps the biggest problem is simply that there is a continuity which is supposed to be kept going perpetualy, but no end point or conclusions is allowed to exist for any of the characters.