Too...Many...Mutants

[GoingGreen]

Well, if we're talking mutants in general, we never started with "the original five". You also had Xavier, Magneto, Vanisher, Blob, Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver (say what you will...), Mastermind, Toad, Namor, Unus, ... we kinda started out with a lot.

My only problem with having so many mutants is that they only promote a handful. So we might get some great moments with a "new" (or at least, new to us) character... who then falls into obscurity for sometimes years afterward. And when you have a favorite that isn't one of the select few that the editors are okay promoting, you're left hunting for scraps...

[ChronoRogue]

I was just saying in General. More so the creatives at Marvel.

I mean it's a little weird that we have all these X-Characters and maybe 6-10 have ever dipped a toe into the other area's of the Marvel Universe. I mean think about that... in 61 years of the X-Men being a team we have probably the same amount of characters that you can count on both hands actually playing a role that wasn't in a X-Book.

Am I really the only one that finds that odd?

I think it's a bit more than that.

Storm married Black Panther and was involved with his comic-line for a few years. As well as temporarily part of the Fantastic Four. Storm was also an Avengers for like an arc with Bendis
Cannonball and Sunspot joined under Hickman's run.
Prodigy joined the Young Avengers for one volume.
Rogue, Deadpool, Cable, Sunfire, and Havok were all in Uncanny Avengers under Rick Remember / Gerry Duggan and was with them for years. Then Monet and Kwannon unofficially also with the Uncanny Avengers mini this past year.
Dazzler was on A-Force for a time.

Sunfire occasionally interacts with the Big Hero 6.

Young Cyclops joined the Champions. (if you go further back, you can also count Iceman and Angel as part of the original line-up)

Jubilee was on the New Warriors along with a bunch of depowered mutants.

Magik has shown up consistently in Dr Strange's magic academy book and before that interacting with him under Bendis.

Pixie showed up with the Runaways to flirt with Nico.

and more I'm probably forgetting.

[Rift]

Laura was also shacking up with the Avengers Academy kids
Dust was a member of the Champions, though the book fell apart around Covid time, so she didn't really do anything
Artie and Leech were Franklin's friends

[ChronoRogue]

Laura was also shacking up with the Avengers Academy kids
Dust was a member of the Champions, though the book fell apart around Covid time, so she didn't really do anything
Artie and Leech were Franklin's friends

Thank you, yea forgot about those.

Many of these characters do eventually return back to the X-Men, but that's partly fans and partly about brand recognition.

[DragonsChi]

I think it's a bit more than that.

Storm married Black Panther and was involved with his comic-line for a few years. As well as temporarily part of the Fantastic Four. Storm was also an Avengers for like an arc with Bendis
Cannonball and Sunspot joined under Hickman's run.
Prodigy joined the Young Avengers for one volume.
Rogue, Deadpool, Cable, Sunfire, and Havok were all in Uncanny Avengers under Rick Remember / Gerry Duggan and was with them for years. Then Monet and Kwannon unofficially also with the Uncanny Avengers mini this past year.
Dazzler was on A-Force for a time.

Sunfire occasionally interacts with the Big Hero 6.

Young Cyclops joined the Champions. (if you go further back, you can also count Iceman and Angel as part of the original line-up)

Jubilee was on the New Warriors along with a bunch of depowered mutants.

Magik has shown up consistently in Dr Strange's magic academy book and before that interacting with him under Bendis.

Pixie showed up with the Runaways to flirt with Nico.

and more I'm probably forgetting.

No, you are right it's more then 10 but I am only counting the ones who stayed and Star'd in another title as we know them.

So in my mind...

Storm, only because of Black Panther. Showing up in one issue of the Avengers does not make you a real Avenger in my mind.

Angel, Beast, Iceman because of Champion's

Prodigy, Cyclops, Cannonball, Sunspot, as you mentioned on their teams

If you want to count Uncanny Avengers (To me that just felt like a X-Book with Captain America on the team) then you have Deadpool, Cable, Sunfire, Havok, Psylocke, Rogue, Monet.

Jubliee I guess counts even though she was basically a a different character and I will never consider that era a TRUE New Warriors team.

And Dazzler because of A-Force.

Nightcrawler because of his multiple solo tiles and the whole Spider-Man thing.

Gambit because of his solo tile.

Wolverine because of his solo and being on the Avengers.

Kitty because of the Guardians of the Galaxy

So we have 18 -20 well known X-Characters that have had some time away from the X-Men that weren't just short cameo's/staring roles. Out of 50...60... others characters.

Again, some characters would be better served if they spent time in other corners of the Marvel Universe in a real meaningful way. To a point where you see the character beyond just being a X-Character. To the point that when they come back to an X-book you know it is only a special appearance and they go back to where they where before.

Some of the X-Characters need to graduate from the school in a real way.

[Cap808]

Joe Quesada had a big part in the "No More Mutants" (AkA Decimation) event .

I see. So, it was a compliment! LOL...all kidding aside, maybe it's just a matter of finding a home (X-team or Brotherhood of Evil Mutants) for each of these characters. That way we can find them easier and possibly even relate them to a team name?

[ChronoRogue]

No, you are right it's more then 10 but I am only counting the ones who stayed and Star'd in another title as we know them.

So in my mind...

Storm, only because of Black Panther. Showing up in one issue of the Avengers does not make you a real Avenger in my mind.

Angel, Beast, Iceman because of Champion's

Prodigy, Cyclops, Cannonball, Sunspot, as you mentioned on their teams

If you want to count Uncanny Avengers (To me that just felt like a X-Book with Captain America on the team) then you have Deadpool, Cable, Sunfire, Havok, Psylocke, Rogue, Monet.

Jubliee I guess counts even though she was basically a a different character and I will never consider that era a TRUE New Warriors team.

And Dazzler because of A-Force.

Nightcrawler because of his multiple solo tiles and the whole Spider-Man thing.

Gambit because of his solo tile.

Wolverine because of his solo and being on the Avengers.

Kitty because of the Guardians of the Galaxy

So we have 18 -20 well known X-Characters that have had some time away from the X-Men that weren't just short cameo's/staring roles. Out of 50...60... others characters.

Again, some characters would be better served if they spent time in other corners of the Marvel Universe in a real meaningful way. To a point where you see the character beyond just being a X-Character. To the point that when they come back to an X-book you know it is only a special appearance and they go back to where they where before.

Some of the X-Characters need to graduate from the school in a real way.

The issue is, even if they are apart of a different space in the MU, whether they continue working as a character there mostly depends on the same factors as inside the X-Men umbrella which are a) creative talent and b) editorial push.

It doesn't matter if Soorya (Dust) is in Academy X or the Champions, if the story doesn't connect with fans, the book doesn't get enough promo to attract fans, the art isn't appealing, etc... the basic things which influence a books success or failure.

A lot the same concepts that apply in different parts of the MU, can be repackaged as X-Books, which is typically why the X comic line has so many main and satellite titles. You can have your standard superheroics (X-Men), darker and edgier (X-Force), pirates (Marauders), comedy and parody (X-Static), scifi and militaristic (S.W.O.R.D.), fantasy (Excalibur), business drama (X-Corp) and junior league teams (Academy X) all within the same line.

[Chris0013]

The solution is 4-5 books that each have their own characters. Then every few years they change the lineups to other characters.

Also they can use mutants (not necessarily X-Men) in other books and stories.

[DragonsChi]

The issue is, even if they are apart of a different space in the MU, whether they continue working as a character there mostly depends on the same factors as inside the X-Men umbrella which are a) creative talent and b) editorial push.

It doesn't matter if Soorya (Dust) is in Academy X or the Champions, if the story doesn't connect with fans, the book doesn't get enough promo to attract fans, the art isn't appealing, etc... the basic things which influence a books success or failure.

A lot the same concepts that apply in different parts of the MU, can be repackaged as X-Books, which is typically why the X comic line has so many main and satellite titles. You can have your standard superheroics (X-Men), darker and edgier (X-Force), pirates (Marauders), comedy and parody (X-Static), scifi and militaristic (S.W.O.R.D.), fantasy (Excalibur), business drama (X-Corp) and junior league teams (Academy X) all within the same line.

I get the confines of how the editorial works at Marvel( which really needs to change and improve at this point). I'm also not saying that there shouldn't be satellite X-Books. All I am saying that when you have characters like Rogue, Gambit, Nightcrawler, Polaris and so on sitting in limbo for extended periods of time when they could be on other teams or at the very least appearing else where to stay relevant...Marvel as a company is just doing themselves a disservice. Especially, when there are soooooo many X-Characters now.

Another prime example ...Rogue is at the point now where she could have been "Marvel's Leading Female Superhero" and yet her options are still either hang tight to the X-Narrative or go back to comic limbo...just seems like a waste to me.

[Til]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, and I know there have been mutants galore in the Krakoa run, but am I the only one who thinks that too many mutant X-teams are diluting what made the X-Men special in the first place? It was a big deal when the original 5 found out about Havok and Polaris, and then Giant-Sized X-Men #1 (which is arguably one of the most important issues of the X-Men) introduced us to 7 new members - Sunfire, Banshee, Thunderbird, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and some guy from Canada. Years later there was another pop with the New Mutants. My point is that recently, new mutants, new X-Men, and new collaborators, pop up in so many issues that there doesn't seem to be any fanfare towards them, let alone character development.

Or am I sitting here on my porch yelling at clouds?

When I started reading the X-Books, there was Uncanny X-Men, X-Men, X-Factor, X-Force, Excalibur and Generation X. The idea that new mutants popping up was something special and rare was simply not a thing for my experience as an X-Fan.

[ChronoRogue]

I get the confines of how the editorial works at Marvel( which really needs to change and improve at this point). I'm also not saying that there shouldn't be satellite X-Books. All I am saying that when you have characters like Rogue, Gambit, Nightcrawler, Polaris and so on sitting in limbo for extended periods of time when they could be on other teams or at the very least appearing else where to stay relevant...Marvel as a company is just doing themselves a disservice. Especially, when there are soooooo many X-Characters now.

Another prime example ...Rogue is at the point now where she could have been "Marvel's Leading Female Superhero" and yet her options are still either hang tight to the X-Narrative or go back to comic limbo...just seems like a waste to me.

I'm open to characters appearing in different parts of the MU if the writers has a great role for them and they really want to use them. I enjoyed Uncanny Avengers for that reason, as well as several of the appearances I listed.

I'm just trying to explain why a lot these changes rarely tend to stick, as I don't think it's editorial is the main issue but sometimes that fans get attached to a character staying within a franchise. Still, I think as long as the comic line is wide, then there is space for characters to explore new roles and situations.

It does get frustrating seeing fan-favorites languish during eras, believe me I totally get that. But I blame that more on writers not being able to balance casts well, as I think some writers just are not fit to write team books.

[From The Shadows]

If mutants that exist were used instead of new ones constantly being created then we wouldn’t have this problem.

THIS.

Ten characters.

[JJS]

Been far too many of them as long ago as the early 90’s.

The problem has just got worse and worse, especially with the writers/editors only giving any real time with the same core players.

Some of the more well-established characters have had very little to do for decades.

[MythicalChicken]

Agree with you on some level...


I would say that there may not be to many mutants but there are to many X-Men. Some of the "Main" X-Men characters should have moved on a long time ago. Storm for example, should have had a solo title and had started her beginnings as a mainstay on the Avengers way back when they started comparing her to Wonder Woman in the 90's.

A characters like Cypher, Prodigy, or Sage could have headed to SHIELD, Secret Avengers, or worked in some government capacity in universe. Jubliee, a character who never really fit in as a X-Men or a Gen X'er, could have been tested out as a New Warrior or Defender. Rachel Summers would be better served as a Cosmic character and is completely redundant hanging out with the X-Men.

So on and so forth.

The X-Men as a whole are just to bloated and the characters need to be moved around a bit.

In spite of how people like to ignore this but... Stan Lee created the X-Men/Mutant because he wanted to create superheroes but didn't want to explain how they go their powers. That was his WHOLE thought process behind them. That doesn't mean they should have been confided mostly to one section of the Marvel Universe.

Eternal catch 22: fans clamor for their favorite, which also means characters can't go away, return, change. But if they stay they're cameo queens at best or the xbooks are crowded AF.

I think Krakoa created lots of opportunities for characters and specific teams really well, as opposed to the 90s when too-many-xmen-itis started to rear its head.

[skyvolt2000]

I get the confines of how the editorial works at Marvel( which really needs to change and improve at this point). I'm also not saying that there shouldn't be satellite X-Books. All I am saying that when you have characters like Rogue, Gambit, Nightcrawler, Polaris and so on sitting in limbo for extended periods of time when they could be on other teams or at the very least appearing else where to stay relevant...Marvel as a company is just doing themselves a disservice. Especially, when there are soooooo many X-Characters now.

Another prime example ...Rogue is at the point now where she could have been "Marvel's Leading Female Superhero" and yet her options are still either hang tight to the X-Narrative or go back to comic limbo...just seems like a waste to me.

90% of that is the X-Office causing that.

They seem to NOT like it when others do a better job with their toys than they do.

See Black Panther and Storm. Excluding Al Ewing's run-Black Panther did more for Storm (even at T'Challa's expense since 2018) than her own franchise.
A case could be made for Sunspot in the Avenger books.
Prodigy coming out happened in an Avengers book not X-book. Yet not counting Dead X-Men or the original X-Men Academy runs-Black Panther and Avenger books tried to do more with him than his own franchise.

It's editorial issues.