What's up with the pure hatred for Tim Drake nowadays?

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Unless DC is going to take a page out of Marvel with Miles and Peter (which is UNLIKELY)-Tim as Robin with Damian is an issue of sorts.

Yeah you could run with two Robins and milk the urban legend that there is more than one Robin that seems to change height at any given time.


Now in Fitzmartin's case-it wasn't so much a bad run-because it did get some positive views on Amazon. You have folks reading these books as the FIRST time they have encountered the characters.

So to the long time Tim fans-they are turned off by the stories. While new readers are not.

Because for too many of these folks the gap between stories or the quality of stories have not been there.

And there is no Priest, Fabian N, Chuck Dixon, McDuffie or Morrison or Wolfman around that can fix it.
Or someone like Al Ewing is never going to get access to the character to pull an Immortal Hulk or X-Men Red (AKA Storm).
Or you got sorry editorial that doesn't want to do the WORK. Where you see a Moon Knight that gets 50 shots and finally got it right.

I mean it doesn't look like positive views were enough to save the book or really grab a new audience. Also Amazon has plenty of books such as Identity Crisis and All Star Batman and Robin have good reviews

[Konja7]

To clarify, I think it's mostly the art that turned people off, tbh. It certainly turned me off.

The art for Tim Drake Robin was a terrible decision. It wasn't appealing for the audience this book could attract.

However, Tim being Bi in a relationship with Bernard will always be a difficult direction to sell in comics. This book would definitely need to attract new audience (which is pretty difficult in the comics market), since this direction will always alienate a part of Tim fans.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

No, people hated everything about it, but to be fair, Fitzmartin mostly ruined her goodwill with fans because of the YJ Dark Crisis tie-ins she wrote.

Well she shouldn't have called people who didn't like her "do not steal OC" character bigots nor do stuff like ignore all of the POC from the original YJ and label three of them as villains as well as ths:

https://twitter.com/orngejuicefan/st...82345034280961

[Jackalope89]

Its this zero sum attitude that really annoys me these days. Tim existing in a book does not mean Damian has been sidelined. Its a dozen Robin's and a million Batman titles. There is more than enough room for every Robin. Damian has actually been sidelined in the books before, but it was due to the writers not wanting to use him not cause Tim Drake exists. Damian has had the care and attention of multiple writers for years now telling a story of him finding himself, redefining his relationship with Batman, establishing him as his own character more than ever and somehow fans still find a way to get mad at Tim. That's not being sidelined. What did Tim have in the same time? Two awful and insulting attempts at a solo and some backups.

Zero sum? I literally said, "at times". Not all the time, but a few times, he has. That doesn't make me a hater, just acknowledging how events have played out. I'm someone that wants every character to be able to have their own niche, to have their own stories told, without stepping on other characters' toes, but still able to crossover with certain story elements too. That includes Tim. But trying to stuff Tim back into the Robin brand, when its already occupied with its own storyline, because "Tim was written to be Robin" or something like that, is stepping on toes. Western comics are not a growing platform, at least not in viable way for the time being. So doing something like that, is going to hurt the brand and both characters, like it or not.

Dick, Jason, even Steph have all found their own niche after Robin (though Steph lost hers, but its still a beloved run as Batgirl, and she's still well regarded as Spoiler). Damian is the current Robin, and finding his own way. Tim has had his time in the role, but misplaced nostalgia, bad writing, and taking not adding anything thats good to him, has held him back. What worked for him in the 90s, isn't working for him now. The less said about Fitzmartin's run, the better. And being the "every man" has clearly gone out the window with no parents, being made angsty/edgy, and other such traits that are either done to death, or are unpopular to read to begin with.

Right now, the best that can be said of Tim's current run, is that Fitzmartin isn't writing him anymore. That's how far his character has fallen.

I have seen Tim fans want to kick other characters out of their own titles so Tim could have their name, in a vain attempt to "renew" him. But if Tim can't move comics as Robin, one of the most well known hero names there is, no chance in hell does he do it as a lesser known name. It may simply be time to shelve Tim until an actual plan for him comes along for him. Maybe have him as a background character for a while, going back to his everyman roots as a college student or private eye.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

There's only so many options for what they could do with Tim, and most of them probably wouldn't be executed well:

-Make him a villain
-Kill him off and keep him dead until it's appropriate for him to return
-Give him the Grayson treatment and put him with the espionage/intelligence side of the DCU
-Give him Leslie Thompkins' role in the Bat-books - a medical/tech savy character who is reduced to a supporting role assisting the main Batfamily but still serving a vital purpose
-Give him powers and a new identity with some sort of mystical/cosmic background (DC tends to do this with characters who are on the backburner)
-In the same vein, make him the new Oracle
-Make him a second, younger Batman who is more lighthearted and operates in the daytime with his own team, like the Outsiders or Titans West or something. We already have two Flashes, would it be such a big deal?
-Write him out completely, let him retire and settle down (which always felt like the trajectory for him even in his heyday) and he can just appear from time to time in big events or anniversary issues.

Really all it takes is creatives who care enough to give him some sort of purpose. But he's been pretty stagnant lately.

Someone mentioned that Tim fans falsely claim that most Robin adaptations are basically Tim - but that's literally true. A lot of media adaptations will amalgamize different Robins for whichever one they are using, but Tim is always the blueprint. Just his look is iconic on its own. However, I agree with mostly what everyone has said. His time came and went.

I wish writers and fans alike would consider his characterization over the years and how he should never have been prepped to be a potential Batman or any sort of big time superhero. He was always going to retire early, he wanted to help Batman out and be Robin for a little while and that's it. If he's going to keep appearing those appearances should be consistent with his established character. But yes the seeds for his downfall were planted all the way back in Identity Crisis and it's only gotten worse for him.

I'm fond of the "giving Tim powers" option. Making him a vampire would've been pretty fun. The Vampire take on Batman from God's and Monsters springs to my mind.

I thought making him a sci-fi hero would be another way to go. That covers the Oracle and 2nd Batman options.

[marhawkman]

I'm fond of the "giving Tim powers" option. Making him a vampire would've been pretty fun. The Vampire take on Batman from God's and Monsters springs to my mind.

I thought making him a sci-fi hero would be another way to go. That covers the Oracle and 2nd Batman options.

Nah, use the vampire logic from the animated Dracula vs Batman movie

[Rac7d*]

I'm fond of the "giving Tim powers" option. Making him a vampire would've been pretty fun. The Vampire take on Batman from God's and Monsters springs to my mind.

I thought making him a sci-fi hero would be another way to go. That covers the Oracle and 2nd Batman options.

He missed the dc vampire wave

But empowering him when Duke doesn’t get to use his seems wrong
The batfam has a metahuman

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

He missed the dc vampire wave

But empowering him when Duke doesn’t get to use his seems wrong
The batfam has a metahuman

They could have more than one.

[Godlike13]

Not sold they should even have one.

[Rac7d*]

They could have more than one.

Can they when duke doesnt get to use his? Hes honestly wasted and more of a token black background character

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Can they when duke doesnt get to use his? Hes honestly wasted and more of a token black background character

That reflects on DC's inabilities than the idea itself. I'm not committed to believing he needs to be a vampire. The bigger issue is Tim (and his gen) need to move forward.

I'm fine with him retiring or transitioning to a non-superhero job like consultants for the DEO etc.

Tim being Robin outside of a reboot or adaptation just feel like a regression. I'm hoping Gunn's DCEU figures out his next phase but it's easier to skip him.

[Riv86672]

Here’s an article where we see Tim take up the Gray Ghost identity…

https://screenrant.com/dc-fan-art-ro...ke-gray-ghost/

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Here’s an article where we see Tim take up the Gray Ghost identity…

https://screenrant.com/dc-fan-art-ro...ke-gray-ghost/

I liked it.

[scary harpy]

Here’s an article where we see Tim take up the Gray Ghost identity…

https://screenrant.com/dc-fan-art-ro...ke-gray-ghost/

I liked it.

The art is attractive.

Possible Problem: If Gray Ghost was Bruce Wayne's childhood hero, then Gray Ghost maybe copyrighted (on that Earth).

Tim cannot use the identity of Gray Ghost unless it's in the public domain (on that Earth).

[Jackalope89]

Its not bad look or moniker, but its all in the execution. Remember the Drake fiasco? Some people thought (and some claimed before reading it) that it was after the type of dragon. Bad enough that it was literally his last name, but Bendis made the point of emphasizing that it was the duck version. Making it more of a lame duck moniker than "Red Robin".

And of course, can't forget actual stories. Getting the name is one thing, but having the stories to keep the character going is arguably even more important. Why? Well, 2 of the most prominent hero names, come from a very frail mammal that can fly, and a bird that is associated with Spring time. Truly the stuff of nightmares.