What's up with the pure hatred for Tim Drake nowadays?

[dietrich]

Ok so you should be able to name a few times that Tim has been pushed another Robin out of a story? Care to name them? Again, Tim being and acting in the capacity as Robin does nothing to impact Damian operating as Robin. Chip is able to tell stories with Tim in one book, Williamson can tell another story with Damian in another title. When half the line is Batman books there is more than enough room for these characters to coexist.

During Joker War and Death metal, Issues of Nightwing, batman had to be altered. The story originally had damian as we could see from the drawing but last minute changes were made to have the Robin be Tim.

The drawings were damian but identified as Tim in the dialogue including one issue in the cross over where he was called damian on one page and Tim in the next.

The changes were made after DC decided that Damian should be replaced in the role of Robin by Tim.

The TT's writer Adam Glass revealed Dc's plans [made even before the Glass run on TT began]
It was also confirmed by bendis on twitter

[dietrich]

The problem with Drake is that aside from being his surname, he took the idea from an evil version of himself.

Robin is a lame name when we think about it. Drake is much cooler than Robin.

[marhawkman]

its easy to phase out bette .the family has so many batgirls already she isnt missed
5 years ago, it proably would have casued some ruckus at first but Tim could been removed, it defintly would have helped duke out
but then the rebrand

Bette, Jimmy Olsen and Kara Zor-el get to fight over who gets to be Flamebird?

[Bruce Wayne]

During Joker War and Death metal, Issues of Nightwing, batman had to be altered. The story originally had damian as we could see from the drawing but last minute changes were made to have the Robin be Tim.

The drawings were damian but identified as Tim in the dialogue including one issue in the cross over where he was called damian on one page and Tim in the next.

The changes were made after DC decided that Damian should be replaced in the role of Robin by Tim.

The TT's writer Adam Glass revealed Dc's plans [made even before the Glass run on TT began]
It was also confirmed by bendis on twitter

Sounds like 5G related. Didio did want to turn Damian into the future Demon's Head to fight a grown up Jon for 5G iirc.

[Fergus]

Sounds like 5G related. Didio did want to turn Damian into the future Demon's Head to fight a grown up Jon for 5G iirc.

While I can see the thought process of making Damian the Magneto to Jon's Professor X, I don't think it was worth the ugly hit job they subjected the character to in an attempt to force his heel turn into Baby Hitler (that was how Bendis put it)

Especially when Rebirth had already set up lid Jon having history with a different fascist Batman.

Saviour.
Tim Drake's gun batman who traveled to our time to kill Jon in the Supersons of Tomorrow cross over.
He was perfect and we know Tynion initially had plans for him to stick around longer

[Rac7d*]

Bette, Jimmy Olsen and Kara Zor-el get to fight over who gets to be Flamebird?

Nobody including dc cares about flamebird
Bette barely cannon
Jimmy is the one civilian friend
And Kara supergirl is way more valuble idenity/brand

[Jackalope89]

Ok so you should be able to name a few times that Tim has been pushed another Robin out of a story? Care to name them? Again, Tim being and acting in the capacity as Robin does nothing to impact Damian operating as Robin. Chip is able to tell stories with Tim in one book, Williamson can tell another story with Damian in another title. When half the line is Batman books there is more than enough room for these characters to coexist.

The Robin series that Damian was headlining was the one I was talking about. It got ended so Tim could have his own series, which ended up being written by a fanfic author whose target audience was the Tumblr and Twitter crowds. Hell, even Batman and Superman have either had to make drastic changes to titles, or cancel a series that had a different character use the moniker of "Batman" or "Superman", as we saw with the 5G attempt and the quick backpedaling that happened not long after, rather than continue to keep other characters under the same name.

[Jackalope89]

The problem with Drake is that aside from being his surname, he took the idea from an evil version of himself.

Robin is a lame name when we think about it. Drake is much cooler than Robin.

I mean, most of the names are. DC's biggest money-maker is named after a rat with leathery wings that usually don't get much bigger than literal pocket sized.

[berserkerclaw]

The problem with Drake is that aside from being his surname, he took the idea from an evil version of himself.

Robin is a lame name when we think about it. Drake is much cooler than Robin.

It's not Lame to me anyway. It's a bird name but also meant to be Robin Hood. And it's been iconic since 1940. Calling himself Drake is dumb in my opinion. But that's just me

[HsssH]

Something can be lame and iconic at the same time.

[Noodle]

It got ended so Tim could have his own series

No, it didn't. DC has no problem having two titles with characters of the same codename. Hell, they're doing it right now with two Green Lantern books.

It was ended because they did the Batman vs. Robin series, followed by the Batman and Robin series. DC sees more value in teaming Damian up with Bruce than having Damian go on his own.

[Konja7]

No, it didn't. DC has no problem having two titles with characters of the same codename. Hell, they're doing it right now with two Green Lantern books.

It was ended because they did the Batman vs. Robin series, followed by the Batman and Robin series. DC sees more value in teaming Damian up with Bruce than having Damian go on his own.

I agree DC sees more value in teaming Damian up with Bruce. Considering Batman and Robin sells a lot better than Damian's Robin solo, they aren't really wrong. Damian's Robin solo sales weren't bad (a lot better than the last Tim's Robin solo), but the sales weren't so good either.

DC likely planned to maximize their profits by giving Tim a Robin solo while Damian was in Batman and Robin. However, Tim's Robin solo just sold horribly and was canceled pretty quickly.


PS: When Damian's Robin solo was cancelled, I saw fear that Damian would lost the Robin mantle, but I never believed it. DC didn't seem interested to have only one Robin at that time (even Tim's solo was called Tim Drake: Robin).

[Godlike13]

Green Lantern is more an exception then the rule. Not convinced the plan was to do a Batman and Robin book and the Tim book, as the main series doesn’t really reflect that, but a response to Gunn coming out and saying he wants to do a Batman and Robin movie. They couldn’t just launch another Robin book after Tim’s bomb either as stores would now use that as an order basis.

[dietrich]

I agree DC sees more value in teaming Damian up with Bruce. Considering Batman and Robin sells a lot better than Damian's Robin solo, they aren't really wrong. Damian's Robin solo sales weren't bad (a lot better than the last Tim's Robin solo), but the sales weren't so good either.

DC likely planned to maximize their profits by giving Tim a Robin solo while Damian was in Batman and Robin. However, Tim's Robin solo just sold horribly and was canceled pretty quickly.


PS: When Damian's Robin solo was cancelled, I saw fear that Damian would lost the Robin mantle, but I never believed it. DC didn't seem interested to have only one Robin at that time (even Tim's solo was called Tim Drake: Robin).

That's incorrect.
Damian's Robin series had decent sales at the point of cancellation.
Williamson knew he was returning to Damian after he reduced some of his workload and the restriction on Damian was lifted. so the series ending wasn't sales related.

Williamson teaming Bruce with Damian wasn't to maximize profits and wasn't the original plan.

The writer said that he felt that he wasn't done with Damian.

He decided to write a 3rd Batman and Robin series because he wanted to show that Bruce and Damian can work together. He wanted to dispel the popular opinion that Bruce and Damian don't work as Batman and Robin.


Dc announcing Tim's new solo series with the line;

TIM DRAKE: ROBIN #1
Step aside, Damian—the world's favorite Robin has got this! That's right, after years away, Tim Drake is taking center stage in a brand-spanking-new Robin series of his very own!

https://www.dc.com/comics/tim-drake-...-drake-robin-1

it's not surprising that fans will come away with the idea that it was cancelled for the sake of tim's new series

[dietrich]

So are both Tim and Damien Robin now, or does Damian use a different name? It seems Tim is Robin nowadays instead of Red Robin.

On DC.com Damian is Robin while Tim is Tim Drake.
In universe, Tim said he's Red robin but goes by Robin when Damian is away or something along those lines.
I believe it's a case of Damian Is THE Robin while Tim is a secondary/backup Robin.