What's up with the pure hatred for Tim Drake nowadays?

[scary harpy]

I'm glad Damian stuck around and I say this as a Tim fan

He shouldn't have been killed in the first place, sooner or later.
It's not the character's fault, that DC is too stubborn to make Tim completely graduate out of Robin mantle and do something else.

This just shows how DC never thinks ahead. They should have had a back-up plan for something like this happening. If it wasn't Damian, it could have been Duke years later. Time changes, and so do people's preferences. You can't just assume everything is going to stay the same. It has been almost 20 years since Damian showed up, and they still haven't figured out what to do with Tim. This is why I always say Jason got lucky by being killed off.



It's because no writer has an original idea for Tim. The last idea anybody had for him was to make him Nightwing lmao.

In fairness, DC never thinks ahead. We have seen time and time again a complete lack for foresight for their IPs (who are not Batman and Superman...and even then it's iffy).

I don't think they need an original idea for Tim...just give a halfway decent new name and new costume. This should not be difficult. It's kinda what they do for a living.

[Konja7]

The only reason Tim exists is because DC was determined to kill post-crisis Jason because of that blasted TDKR.

To be exact, the only reason Tim exists is because DC didn't want to bring Jason back from death (there was a time where Jason not being revived was a big thing). So, they needed to create a new character when they wanted a new Robin for Batman.

[scary harpy]

I'm glad Damian stuck around and I say this as a Tim fan

He shouldn't have been killed in the first place, sooner or later.
It's not the character's fault, that DC is too stubborn to make Tim completely graduate out of Robin mantle and do something else.

To be exact, the only reason Tim exists is because DC didn't want to bring Jason back from death (there was a time where Jason not being revived was a big thing). So, they needed to create a new character when they wanted a new Robin for Batman.

True.

They wanted Jason dead and Barbara crippled...because Dark and Grim was so cool!

That whole era felt joyless... as someone said 'like a kiddie carnival built on a graveyard'.

In retrospect, I surprised we didn't have a Scooby Doo Murder Mysteries series.

If DC had revived Jason and healed Barbara earlier, then they might not have the problems they are having now...too many Batgirls and Robins and no idea what to do with them.

[James Cameron]

There's only so many options for what they could do with Tim, and most of them probably wouldn't be executed well:

-Make him a villain
-Kill him off and keep him dead until it's appropriate for him to return
-Give him the Grayson treatment and put him with the espionage/intelligence side of the DCU
-Give him Leslie Thompkins' role in the Bat-books - a medical/tech savy character who is reduced to a supporting role assisting the main Batfamily but still serving a vital purpose
-Give him powers and a new identity with some sort of mystical/cosmic background (DC tends to do this with characters who are on the backburner)
-In the same vein, make him the new Oracle
-Make him a second, younger Batman who is more lighthearted and operates in the daytime with his own team, like the Outsiders or Titans West or something. We already have two Flashes, would it be such a big deal?
-Write him out completely, let him retire and settle down (which always felt like the trajectory for him even in his heyday) and he can just appear from time to time in big events or anniversary issues.

Really all it takes is creatives who care enough to give him some sort of purpose. But he's been pretty stagnant lately.

Someone mentioned that Tim fans falsely claim that most Robin adaptations are basically Tim - but that's literally true. A lot of media adaptations will amalgamize different Robins for whichever one they are using, but Tim is always the blueprint. Just his look is iconic on its own. However, I agree with mostly what everyone has said. His time came and went.

I wish writers and fans alike would consider his characterization over the years and how he should never have been prepped to be a potential Batman or any sort of big time superhero. He was always going to retire early, he wanted to help Batman out and be Robin for a little while and that's it. If he's going to keep appearing those appearances should be consistent with his established character. But yes the seeds for his downfall were planted all the way back in Identity Crisis and it's only gotten worse for him.

[Godlike13]

No one was sidelined to push Tim. They launched a half assed secondary title. Damian was still getting used.

Damian was clearly sidelined. They literally pushed him out of the Bat office again. And when Tim’s pushed failed, and Gunn came out and said he wanted to do something with Damian, only then was he brought back.

[marvelprince]

This!

Thank you, sunofdarkchild. You stated it perfectly!





Times have changed. It's not the 1990s anymore...Tim and Young Justice need to change with them.





Wow. I feel oblivious.

I had no idea this was going on.

I am sad to learn Tim fans are doing this.

The only reason Tim exists is because DC was determined to kill post-crisis Jason because of that blasted TDKR.

The hate Tim gets these days is beyond irrational. I don't think I've ever seen anyone seriously make the arguments that were raised, but people get so legit worked up whenever a fan says he's the best Robin and they start forthing at the mouth. Its a little ridiculous.

[Morgoth]

Yeah, Damian was almost completely absent between Batman vs Robin and Knight Terrors, with exception of a few small appearances.

[marvelprince]

Damian was clearly sidelined. They literally pushed him out of the Bat office again. And when Tim’s pushed failed, and Gunn came out and said he wanted to do something with Damian, only then was he bought back.

He had his own title with a high profile team, got rolled into a major event that he co-headlined with his father (of which in the lead up to he played a prominent role in the titles leading up to said event included Deathstroke) which then lead into his own new title that he again co-headlines with his father. Characters dream of being sidelined like that.

[marvelprince]

Yeah, Damian was almost completely absent between Batman vs Robin and Knight Terrors, with exception of a few small appearances.

So in the what six months between one event head lead to the next that he was a major player in? Do yall know what sidelined means?

[dietrich]

So in the what six months between one event head lead to the next that he was a major player in? Do yall know what sidelined means?

No Damian was missing from Gotham from after Alfred RIP till Robin 2021.

That's 2019 -2021 [through Tynion's run, FS and beyond] then he was put off limits to again according to Chip and Taylor. That's why his first appearance in Taylors Nightwing was BeastWorld.

Before that he was moved to the Superman editorial after Tomasi's B&R.
Start of Rebirth he was also on a off limits according to Orlando and Priest.

[dietrich]

Yeah, Damian was almost completely absent between Batman vs Robin and Knight Terrors, with exception of a few small appearances.

That's not sidelined. That's a one title ending and another starting. The sideline was following the City of Bane. When the "Baby Hitler, Jon's Magneto plan" was in play. Following TT by Glass. The title where DC mandated that Damian be forced 2 steps back because the decision had been made for him to lose the Robin mantle.
The same period when Tim went from Drake back to Robin following an off panel discussion with Bruce.

The instagram posts from Adam Glass revealing the decision having already been made for him to lose Robin and the two steps back thing were shared on his appreciation page here on CBr.

[Godlike13]

He had his own title with a high profile team, got rolled into a major event that he co-headlined with his father (of which in the lead up to he played a prominent role in the titles leading up to said event included Deathstroke) which then lead into his own new title that he again co-headlines with his father. Characters dream of being sidelined like that.

They canceled his title and put him into an isolated event. His publication took a nose dive during Tim’s series. Tim’s pushes failure is what lead to Damian’s new series. It wasn’t never the plan, but a hard pivot after stuff with Tim flopped and it came out Gunn wanted to use Damian. His sidelining didn’t last long only because it quickly became apparent the whole idea was mistake. But let’s not pretend it wasn’t what it was.

[scary harpy]

The hate Tim gets these days is beyond irrational. I don't think I've ever seen anyone seriously make the arguments that were raised, but people get so legit worked up whenever a fan says he's the best Robin and they start forthing at the mouth. Its a little ridiculous.

And that's more than a little scary.

There are real problems in the world...real suffering. I go to comics and this comic message boards to escape.

[scary harpy]

There's only so many options for what they could do with Tim, and most of them probably wouldn't be executed well:

...

None of them would be executed well.

That's standard operating procedure for DC.

[James Cameron]

None of them would be executed well.

That's standard operating procedure for DC.

The 52/Post-Infinite Crisis era was a good time for character reinventions and reinvigorations. I feel like these days not many have stuck. It's hard to predict what will stay mostly permanent in the status quo nowadays. For Tim, I say they should be as ballsy and wildly out there as possible, make a real effort to define him without banking on nostalgia, and if it doesn't work, write him out for a while and try again later.