What's up with the pure hatred for Tim Drake nowadays?

[Gaius]

Two groups;

1. Backlash against being heralded as “the best Robin” even though he’s arguably the least distinct member of the immediate Batman family, not even just compared to other Robins.

2. Homophobes

[Godlike13]

It's there and it is real.

However in this case it's STORY content that is bigger issue. Along with folks realizing a lot of Tim and his generation's issues were fueled by those who are no longer in charge.

This has been an issue since 2011 piled on with collection of bad series that last too long because of the title not the actual content of the books.

If you were to ask folks what are Tim's issues-his sexuality wouldn't sniff the top 10. There is other bigger stuff to deal with.

Tim is just another character on the growing scale of fans being fed up with DC and they are leaving. If it's not Duke it's Step, Cassandra, JSA, Legion, JLI gang, Spectre, Superboy, Wonder Girls, Booster Gold and so on. Folks are getting fed up.

So who do you have left?

The folks who don't care about him (or those others) chirping the loudest and uncontested.

Tim's hardly the first character to see bad writing. Its laughable though to group Tim with the likes of those others. Tim's not a character DC tried to shelve or undermine. He's a character they repeatedly tried to launch lines around. Folk aren't leaving DC over Tim Drake, they are leaving DC because of characters like Tim Drake. He's not a character the current generation of audiences responses to anymore despite DC's attempts. They aren't the one that should be telling the readers he's the Greatest Robin, its the readers who should be telling them he's the greatest Robin. And that they are not is something they should have recognized. Too readily though anytime anyone one says anything negative or critical its dismissed as hatred or an agenda rather then simply recognizing the trend.

[Captain Nostalgia]

I boil it down to three things.

1. There isn't much room for legacy heroes to grow in a declining industry

2. The bisexual/queer turn

3. How DC is/was run as a business



1.

With streaming piracy resulting in a declining industry, there isn't a lot of room for the 90's Young Justice crew to develop outside of the main titles (Batman/Flash ect)
They are thus confined at best to cameo appearances like most DC heroes.

That being said, both the 90’s Young Justice and Red Robin series sold well, so why there was no follow up would be a question for point 3, and would explain the animosity that was bubbling before the bisexual turn.

2.

When I talk to Tim Drake fans upset about the bisexuality turn, it doesn't come from homophobic hostility, but rather that the change in character came out of nowhere, contrary to his back history. Many of these fans identified with Tim Drake at a very young age, they saw and imagined themselves as Tim Drake, having the same characteristics of him. The vast majority of them I imagine are straight, and then out of nowhere there is a sexuality change to their favourite character they can't identify with. For them it no longer feels like their character, and that their favourite character was changed because of politics, which bring me to point 3.


3.

A lot of people use the phrase "DC Woke" I don't like it because I think it sets up a stupid I'm left wing your right wing hostility. I will just say that there is a strong ideological current out there that champions diversity, but….
I think this has subsided at DC Comics and is fading away.

There was point when it did seem like a lot of DC writers were getting hired on things other than merit, and at the end of the day that is the only reason why someone should be hired or fired at DC.

Take Chuck Dixon (who I hear is a right wing hardliner) regardless of this, he was an incredibly gifted writer, one of DC’s best. He took that Robin series into a magnificent run.
Take Meghan Fitzmartin (who people would describe as woke) is a horrible comic writer, and she basically buried 2 decades of Tim Drake’s success in 10 horrible issues.

The point is, if your going to hire a writer to write a character who brings in the $$$, than the only consideration should be their merit, not what sort of diversity they are going to bring to the character, or their political affiliation, because now Tim Drake has gone from sales success to sales bust.

[Morgoth]

Bisexuality is DC's excuse to break up Tim and Stephanie, despite the fact that lots of his fans like their romance. And the way it was done, well, it was something.
I'm not saying homophobia isn't a factor here, but big part of his fanbase is indeed invested in this relationship, and it's impossible to say the same about Bernard.

[Riv86672]

2. Homophobes

^^^Does me thinking making Tim Drake, who debuted thirty plus years ago and was never presented as gay/bisexual gay/bisexual in a blatant pandering move to attract a certain demographic, saddling him w. a SUPER annoying paramour and then writing some of the crappiest ham fisted stories imaginable in a thankfully short lived series that was rightfully panned on multiple fronts make me a homophobe?

Nope.

[Aahz]

Tim's hardly the first character to see bad writing.

But he hit unfortunately a really long streak of it. Most of his ongoings since Flashpoint have been pretty terrible, and I don't think anything since than has been even remotely on the level of his pre flashpoint stuff.

[Gaius]

^^^Does me thinking making Tim Drake, who debuted thirty plus years ago and was never presented as gay/bisexual gay/bisexual in a blatant pandering move to attract a certain demographic, saddling him w. a SUPER annoying paramour and then writing some of the crappiest ham fisted stories imaginable in a thankfully short lived series that was rightfully panned on multiple fronts make me a homophobe?

Nope.

Not sure what you're taking offense too. I thought this thread was about people who've never liked Tim (pre or post being bi). Not about why people don't like Tim being bi.

[TaliaJoy]

With streaming piracy resulting in a declining industry,

I doubt that's one of the main reasons the comic industry is declining.

[Badou]

I think it comes from two groups. One is from Tim fans that are upset at DC and what they did to his character. From the lack of direction, ruining his relationship with Steph, making him bi, constantly shuffling his identity, and the overall bad stories they have put him in since the New 52. So they take it out on this version of the character they dislike. They are responding in anger.

The second group, which has been mentioned already, is from DC/Batman fans feeling he is redundant in an already overcrowded Bat family and also disliked how much Tim fans talked up Tim in the past. From them constantly saying he is the best Robin, the only one deserving to carry on Batman's legacy, how he is the better and smarter hero, and so on. They enjoy seeing him fail now that he no longer has the main Robin identity to prop him up. Him being unable to find a direction post Robin confirms their feelings of how he was always overrated. Since it is easy to be a "good" character when you are being pushed in an iconic role and much more challenging once that role is stripped from you.

[PurpleGlovez]

Tim had his time in the sun and people have simply moved on. It doesn't help that his characterization has ranged from mediocre to dreadful since the New 52 started (and there were shades of this happening even before that). Making him bisexual could have been fine on its own but I think it's so emblematic of the desperation and pandering that have taken hold of DC and the entire industry. It just feels fake and unearned. And sadly, the book just wasn't good. With the other Robins, especially Jason, having resurgences in popularity over the past decade, it makes perfect sense that Tim would kind of fade into the sunset. It also doesn't help that certain Tim fans can be a little overbearing with their "best Robin ever" shtick, as others have mentioned.

[Captain Nostalgia]

I doubt that's one of the main reasons the comic industry is declining.

You don't think that being able to easily click on a website that lets you read all your comics for free isn't hurting comic sales?

If that's your belief....allrighty then.

[Bat-Meal]

I haven't noticed Tim specifically getting more hatred than others in the Bat-Family as a character per say, it's more complaints about his direction and the writers. I don't think he gets more hatred as a character than Duke, Jace and Harper. But there's usually plenty of whining about anyone costumed in the Bat-Family that isn't Bruce, Dick or Babs.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Lack of direction. New 52 Tim was kind of a douche. And even though they restored his history in Rebirth, they haven't done much with him. Bendis somehow managed to make Young Justice boring and did a poor job of growing Tim. Then Fitzmartin crapped on him even worse. Even without making him bi, she was awful.

[sunofdarkchild]

Speaking for myself as a big fan of 90s Tim and someone who considered Tim to be 'my Robin' growing up, he's a pointless character nowadays who hasn't been written well in over a decade. In the 2000s DC killed or wrote out most of his supporting cast to make him as much like Bruce as possible, completely missing the point of why he appealed to people and the fact that a supporting cast builds character. The Nu52 wiped out his history, leaving him with nothing to get readers invested. With the added stupidity of the '4 Robins in 5 years' timeline it was obvious to everyone, Tim fans included, that he was the Robin who needed to go to get rid of the clutter. Then DC tried to give him a big push and the result was one of the worst-written comics they've ever published. The one good thing that can be said about it is that there was an actual attempt to give Tim a new supporting cast going forward, but the execution was so bad it had no chance of sticking.

[Aahz]

With the other Robins, especially Jason, having resurgences in popularity over the past decade, it makes perfect sense that Tim would kind of fade into the sunset.

I have the feeling that Jason is currently heading also down a similar path, due to the shitty writing after the end of RHatO.

If he doesn't soon get a series with a somewhat decent creative team and direction the fans actually want (and they make the writers of the other Bat-Books stop to trash the character constantly), he will also likely fall to the side.