What's up with the pure hatred for Tim Drake nowadays?

[Aahz]

It wasn't unique but it was much better than what we have now.

I think without the reboot it wouldn't have had to be unique since there were allready a lot of readers who were invested in that version of the character.

It might not have been the biggest seller, but would probably still sold enough to keep going (unless the quality would have drastically dropped).

[dietrich]

Jason isn't ending up like Tim because somebody always keeps using him. Only person pushing Tim now is Zdarsky.

Wasn't that the case with Tim? Tim has always had more writers using him than Jason.

[dietrich]

I think without the reboot it wouldn't have had to be unique since there were allready a lot of readers who were invested in that version of the character.

It might not have been the biggest seller, but would probably still sold enough to keep going (unless the quality would have drastically dropped).

Exactly. DC did have a good plan for what to do with Tim when he was replaced.

I'm sure behind the scenes they thought it was a good plan for post Robin Tim until those well laid plans were undone by the plans for the greater DCU.

[dietrich]

He shouldn't have been killed in the first place, sooner or later.
It's not the character's fault, that DC is too stubborn to make Tim completely graduate out of Robin mantle and do something else.

To be fair DC did try several times to graduate Tim from Robin and do something else.

[Oberon]

But what ground would that cover that nightwing and red hood aren't already?

Oddly enough this puts Tim with the likes of Flamebird, who has mostly vanished after the nu 52. Not everyone graduates and lands well I guess.

And ironically in a 20 something year old Titans story, Tim was seen to be involved with Flamebird, in a future-look story. Titans Tomorrow, early 2000s.

This was before Spoiler I believe and her relationship with Tim, and of course to me Spoiler 'replaces' Flamebird as both a previous BatGirl and whatever sort of legacy character FB could be.

At least Tim still appears in current comics.

[Morgoth]

To be fair DC did try several times to graduate Tim from Robin and do something else.

And they never stick with it. So point still stands.

[Konja7]

I think without the reboot it wouldn't have had to be unique since there were allready a lot of readers who were invested in that version of the character.

It might not have been the biggest seller, but would probably still sold enough to keep going (unless the quality would have drastically dropped).

Honestly, I think Jason getting a solo wouldn't help the direction they had for Tim in Red Robin solo. I mean, Jason could realize the Dark ex-Robin thing a lot better.

Also, Red Robin sales were good but not great (and they would likely decline). That's why DC though it was best to use Tim's popularity to launch New52 Teen Titans.

[sunofdarkchild]

Oddly enough this puts Tim with the likes of Flamebird, who has mostly vanished after the nu 52. Not everyone graduates and lands well I guess.

And ironically in a 20 something year old Titans story, Tim was seen to be involved with Flamebird, in a future-look story. Titans Tomorrow, early 2000s.

This was before Spoiler I believe and her relationship with Tim, and of course to me Spoiler 'replaces' Flamebird as both a previous BatGirl and whatever sort of legacy character FB could be.

At least Tim still appears in current comics.

No, Spoiler and her relationship with Tim dates back to the early 90s. They first kissed in Robin #5 in 1994 and after years of will they/won't they drama became a couple in Robin #56 in 1998. They were together until she was killed off during the War Games story in 2004, when the Robin series was in the 130s. Titans Tomorrow came out a year later in 2005. Steph was brought back soon after due to fan backlash at how horribly her death was handled, though they wouldn't get back together due to DC pushing Tim in a darker and angrier direction and him blaming her for things Batman told her to do. When her Nu52 version was introduced in Batman Eternal in 2014, her old relationship with Tim was rekindled, and they stayed a couple until 2021 when DC decided he was suddenly bi and he suddenly started treating her like she was worth less than garbage.

[marhawkman]

No, Spoiler and her relationship with Tim dates back to the early 90s. They first kissed in Robin #5 in 1994 and after years of will they/won't they drama became a couple in Robin #56 in 1998. They were together until she was killed off during the War Games story in 2004, when the Robin series was in the 130s. Titans Tomorrow came out a year later in 2005. Steph was brought back soon after due to fan backlash at how horribly her death was handled, though they wouldn't get back together due to DC pushing Tim in a darker and angrier direction and him blaming her for things Batman told her to do. When her Nu52 version was introduced in Batman Eternal in 2014, her old relationship with Tim was rekindled, and they stayed a couple until 2021 when DC decided he was suddenly bi and he suddenly started treating her like she was worth less than garbage.

So it's editorial that hates Tim? I can believe that.

[Triniking1234]

I can't believe War Games was so close to Titans Tomorrow.

So it's editorial that hates Tim? I can believe that.

Killed his girlfriend
Killed his dad
Broke his first team up cuz of "trauma".

[Godlike13]

So it's editorial that hates Tim? I can believe that.

If editorial hatted Tim they wouldn't have sidelined the currently more popular Robin to push him as Robin again. No, Tim is heavily favored by editorial and continued to see opportunity that his production and prospects didn't really justify. Steph though...

[marvelprince]

If editorial hatted Tim they wouldn't have sidelined the currently more popular Robin to push him as Robin again. No, Tim is heavily favored by editorial and continued to see opportunity that his production and prospects didn't really justify. Steph though...

No one was sidelined to push Tim. They launched a half assed secondary title. Damian was still getting used.

I can't believe War Games was so close to Titans Tomorrow.



Killed his girlfriend
Killed his dad
Broke his first team up cuz of "trauma".

To be fair at the time this was when they were pushing Tim to be more Bruce. From the Geoff John's school of every hero must have at least one dead parent. Especially at that time I don't think anyone hated Tim, he was still the most popular Robin at the time you're referencing. Its just lately outside of Chip and Tynion they have no idea what to do with the character.

[sunofdarkchild]

No one was sidelined to push Tim. They launched a half assed secondary title. Damian was still getting used.



To be fair at the time this was when they were pushing Tim to be more Bruce. From the Geoff John's school of every hero must have at least one dead parent. Especially at that time I don't think anyone hated Tim, he was still the most popular Robin at the time you're referencing. Its just lately outside of Chip and Tynion they have no idea what to do with the character.

He had a dead parent from the start anyway. They already killed his mom soon after he was introduced and fought with Dixon throughout the 90s to kill his dad too. Once Dixon left Jack Drake was a dead man and the only thing that's surprising is that they waited until Identity Crisis to actually kill him. Plus his step-mom was killed when they nuked Bludhaven, and he went from the normal batfamily member with a life outside of tights to just another orphan vigilante with no supporting cast.

[scary harpy]

Speaking for myself as a big fan of 90s Tim and someone who considered Tim to be 'my Robin' growing up, he's a pointless character nowadays who hasn't been written well in over a decade. In the 2000s DC killed or wrote out most of his supporting cast to make him as much like Bruce as possible, completely missing the point of why he appealed to people and the fact that a supporting cast builds character. The Nu52 wiped out his history, leaving him with nothing to get readers invested. With the added stupidity of the '4 Robins in 5 years' timeline it was obvious to everyone, Tim fans included, that he was the Robin who needed to go to get rid of the clutter. Then DC tried to give him a big push and the result was one of the worst-written comics they've ever published. The one good thing that can be said about it is that there was an actual attempt to give Tim a new supporting cast going forward, but the execution was so bad it had no chance of sticking.

This!

Thank you, sunofdarkchild. You stated it perfectly!

Its not as if RHatO was generally considered good writing. Jason will be find. He's just feeling the ebbs and flow. As tedious as it becomes to long time readers he has a timeless default character loop he can always fall back on, and he has a highly adaptable Batman story. Same is true for Babs and Batgirl right now. Tim lacks that. He doesn't have anything to fall back too. He's not reflective of a modern teenager anymore, his character arc is very generic, and he's not appealing as an adaptable property. Which is why they made him bi. It was a desperate attempt to make him more contemporary.

Pretty much the core of his problem.

Jason will never be in the same situation as Tim because of his role in the Batfamily. He is the "failed" Robin, the one that died under Batman's care, and that alone will always make him more relevant for adaptations. Jason's issues in the comics usually start after his resurrection arc comes to a conclusion because some writers insist on him being the bad guy, so he is always reverted to his original form. It's similar to how Damian is never allowed to keep his character development. Tim's original purpose was to be the relatable Robin, but that's truly all he has to offer, or rather had to offer. In my opinion, the New 52 was the perfect opportunity to figure out a new purpose for his character, but we know how that turned out, and now they are wasting even more time by reverting him to Robin.

Times have changed. It's not the 1990s anymore...Tim and Young Justice need to change with them.

The hate is due to Tim fans. There's an a section of his fansom that's obxnious as heck. Spreding lies about other Robin or undermining other Robins to elevate Tim.

We can alk recognise the misinformation that have now become memes

-Tim is a better detective than Bruce
-Tim is the only other Robin that Ra's has called Detective
-Tim is the most like Batman
-Tim is the heart of the Batfamily
-the only reason why people say tim is bland is because dC keeps taking traits that belong to tim and giving it to other Robins
-DC gave up on Tim
-DC doesn't care about Tim

These are often mocked in fandom.

There's a certain lack of awareness with this section of Tim fans who complain launching racist attacks on damian and Duke while enjoying privileged treatment from DC.

there's also the fallout a few years ago when fandom finally confronted Tim fans who have been writing Dick bashing and Damian bashing fics since 2009.

The whole Dick sent Tim to Arkham nonsense over on tumblr.

The problem isn't anything Tim has done. It's his fandom.

The complaints about Tim being bland have been there since jason was reintroduced.

Let's not even try to pretend that the Tim haters haven't done their best to be even more "obnoxious."

Wow. I feel oblivious.

I had no idea this was going on.

I am sad to learn Tim fans are doing this.

The only reason Tim exists is because DC was determined to kill post-crisis Jason because of that blasted TDKR.

[scary harpy]

I'm glad Damian stuck around and I say this as a Tim fan

Ditto.

He shouldn't have been killed in the first place, sooner or later.
It's not the character's fault, that DC is too stubborn to make Tim completely graduate out of Robin mantle and do something else.

Agreed.

Please, don't try to convince that Drake was a serious attempt to give Tim a new identity. Bad name and worse costume.