Thoughts on the misogyny behind limiting female characters' power levels?

[davetvs]

I think there's definitely room to say that misogyny is alive and well in how a lot of writers approach writing powerful female characters which leads to nerfing AND a lot of writers suck at writing extremely powerful characters in general which leads to nerfing. Both can be true.

The misogyny is more present in the "super powerful woman is driven mad (read: hysterical) and can't control herself" (Dark Phoenix, Scarlet Witch, Polaris every so often) trope. Storm has been lucky to avoid it completely, pretty much.

Then again, you can argue that Polaris has legitimate mental illness(es) which inform that characterization more so than does misogyny.

[sunofdarkchild]

Superheroes in general and mutants in particular have a problem in that their powers are usually not earned. You can be bombarded by cosmic rays, bitten by a radioactive spider, be given a magic ring by a dying alien, or be an alien yourself. All of these are accidents of life or of birth, not the result of character development or growth. This plays a big part in why characters like Batman and Iron Man are so beloved. Batman spent years training his body and his mind. Tony Stark literally built the suit that gives him superpowers thanks to a combination of his own genius and desperate times. It's why Thor's first solo movie is all about the powers he was born with being taken away and him having to earn them back. With mutants, they are just born that way. Scott woke up one day and could shoot lasers from his eyes. Ororo woke up one day and could summon lightning from the sky. When you have a character with functionally unlimited power just because they were born that way, that only makes it worse. What's the point of exploring what a character can do if there's no limit in the first place? How can a character ever reach deep and go beyond if they have nothing to go beyond and function as nothing more than automatic win buttons?

One of the many things I like about Magik is that sorcery is a powerset that usually requires training to use at all. From Dr. Strange to Harry Potter, sorcerers usually need to be trained and learn spells individually over time. So she went through years of training under old Storm and Belasco in order to become as powerful as she is. And she still had to be nerfed because if she was allowed to actually use that training, the other kids and trainees on her team would have had nothing to do. There is also the fact that since she is an apocalypse maiden, it makes sense for her to hold back and not use her powers, and her more powerful form comes with obvious downsides so it can't be abused. So she can be powerful enough to make Dormammu and Mephisto tremble, but also not solve every problem with a super-spell.

[Doom'nGloom]

Superheroes in general and mutants in particular have a problem in that their powers are usually not earned. You can be bombarded by cosmic rays, bitten by a radioactive spider, be given a magic ring by a dying alien, or be an alien yourself. All of these are accidents of life or of birth, not the result of character development or growth. This plays a big part in why characters like Batman and Iron Man are so beloved. Batman spent years training his body and his mind. Tony Stark literally built the suit that gives him superpowers thanks to a combination of his own genius and desperate times. It's why Thor's first solo movie is all about the powers he was born with being taken away and him having to earn them back. With mutants, they are just born that way. Scott woke up one day and could shoot lasers from his eyes. Ororo woke up one day and could summon lightning from the sky. When you have a character with functionally unlimited power just because they were born that way, that only makes it worse. What's the point of exploring what a character can do if there's no limit in the first place? How can a character ever reach deep and go beyond if they have nothing to go beyond and function as nothing more than automatic win buttons?

One of the many things I like about Magik is that sorcery is a powerset that usually requires training to use at all. From Dr. Strange to Harry Potter, sorcerers usually need to be trained and learn spells individually over time. So she went through years of training under old Storm and Belasco in order to become as powerful as she is. And she still had to be nerfed because if she was allowed to actually use that training, the other kids and trainees on her team would have had nothing to do. There is also the fact that since she is an apocalypse maiden, it makes sense for her to hold back and not use her powers, and her more powerful form comes with obvious downsides so it can't be abused. So she can be powerful enough to make Dormammu and Mephisto tremble, but also not solve every problem with a super-spell.

I think it's more about the struggle than earning it. Spider-man didn't exactly earn his powers. He's the result of an accidental spider bite, literally being in the wrong place at the wrong time (or right place at the right time depending on how you look at it). He doesn't owe the world anything, in fact being Spider-man further complicates his personal life. Despite that he puts himself out there, getting bruised up along the way but always pushing through just because he feels like he has to, or in his uncles words "great power must also come with great responsibility".

spider.jpg

I think this panel sums it up. If your hero doesn't struggle, if he/she just breezes through the enemy, at first you will be like "oh wow that's so cool", the second time it will be "that's neat, so what else we got" and the third time it will get boring and stale. On top of struggle if your hero has trained to become who he/she is then that's an added bonus as you said. That's why it's meaningless to have Jean, Ororo or in your case Magik to slay Orchis goons. It doesn't provide a challenge. If your hero is powerful then he/she needs enemies worthy of that and he/she needs to earn the win. Magik should be fighting Balesco, Dormammu, Shuma-Gorath, not tangling with human bigots, that's what your street level characters are for.

[Askani's Flame]

The misogyny is more present in the "super powerful woman is driven mad (read: hysterical) and can't control herself" (Dark Phoenix, Scarlet Witch, Polaris every so often) trope. Storm has been lucky to avoid it completely, pretty much.

Then again, you can argue that Polaris has legitimate mental illness(es) which inform that characterization more so than does misogyny.

Or "powerful woman is enslaved and forced to turn on others they consider allies" (Jean, Rachel, Betsy, Lorna, etc)

[Havok83]

The misogyny is more present in the "super powerful woman is driven mad (read: hysterical) and can't control herself" (Dark Phoenix, Scarlet Witch, Polaris every so often) trope. Storm has been lucky to avoid it completely, pretty much.

Then again, you can argue that Polaris has legitimate mental illness(es) which inform that characterization more so than does misogyny.

The same has been done with men. Hello Legion, Nate Grey, Jamie Braddock and Vulcan

[davetvs]

True, but within the context of cultural misogyny/sexism that is false equivalence. There is no prevailing cultural belief that men are too emotional or hysterical for leadership. It's like when people argue that female characters aren't unnecessarily sexualized because Namor wears a speedo.

[Nicoclaws]

also there are tons more male characters. When a female character becomes powerful and almost systematically become crazy, the percentage is naturally higher. The solution : add more women.

[davetvs]

Exactly. It's in the same vein as "Well what if they cast a WHITE PERSON to play BLACK PANTHER????? HUH??????" as if "being Black" isn't important to the backstory of the character, and as if there aren't 100 white characters for every Black one. Not that it stopped them with Sunspot's casting. Twice.

[D.Z]

All in your heads.

[davetvs]

Thank you for such an astute and well-researched contribution to this topic, which you could have just as easily ignored. I am humbled to be in the online presence of an intellectual heavyweight like yourself.

[Catlady in training]

The misogyny is more present in the "super powerful woman is driven mad (read: hysterical) and can't control herself" (Dark Phoenix, Scarlet Witch, Polaris every so often) trope. Storm has been lucky to avoid it completely, pretty much.

Then again, you can argue that Polaris has legitimate mental illness(es) which inform that characterization more so than does misogyny.

This is a trope that constantly frustrates me. And it's not just in comics, it's everywhere, even in stories that are treated as progressive for women: The Craft, Willow in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Daenerys in ASoIaF,...

[D.Z]

So mad lulz.

[Havok83]

also there are tons more male characters. When a female character becomes powerful and almost systematically become crazy, the percentage is naturally higher. The solution : add more women.

what are the examples of super powerful X-women that go crazy outside of the 3 mentioned?

[Nicoclaws]

what are the examples of super powerful X-women that go crazy outside of the 3 mentioned?

I'm litteraly talking percentage not absolute number.
Although I will grant that we're lucky we X-men we have TONS more female characters than other pop references (thanks Claremont)

[sunofdarkchild]

The big 'hero goes mad with power' stories that I can think for male characters are Hal Jordan becoming Parallax and Xavier becoming Onslaught. Hal was eventually retconned to be possessed by a giant space monster, but for about a decade it was all him and he literally destroyed the DC universe. Stories where Superman goes evil have become common in recent years like Injustice, but those aren't main-universe DC.

But in general, going mad with power is a typical villain origin story. Like Green Goblin or Dr. Octopus, men who were not evil before their accidents, at least according to the original versions.