Lord of the Rings, except Gandalf is replaced by Magneto

[Captain Morgan]

Really, the only question is whether the ring can corrupt Magneto.

A. Would Magneto be susceptible? I'd think so. He has strong will power and telepathic resistance, but I'm told either of those things really apples with the One Ring. He's also definitely someone whose ambition and negative emotions can lead to catastrophic results. See... Like, his entire career as a super.villain.

B. Will the ring have enough time to corrupt him? I have no idea. I don't know how quickly the ring affects people, from what distances, or whether holding the ring in a magnetic field is the same as holding it in your hand. I'm also not clear when Magneto even becomes aware of the ring or his starting distance from it, both of which seems like relevant factors. I'm not sure if it is better or worse if he's told about the ring before he's in proximity to it.

He's certainly physically capable of throwing the ring into Mount Doom, or the sun, of whatever. Zero question there. But having the opportunity to destroy the ring wasn't a problem for Isildur either. It didn't seem like he had the ring very long between cutting it off Sauron and standing over Mount Doom while being begged to throw it in. (Was that scene invented for the movie?) I suspect that while Magento is way more powerful than Gandalf, Erik's motivations would ultimately make him easier to manipulate.

Edit: Again, forgive me for using movie canon here, but I've seen it more recently than I read the books. But Gandalf was technically exposed to the ring here and there for decades: whenever he went to visit Bilbo. I don't remember why the ring wasn't actively corrupting Gandalf in that time, but I suspect that if a fish as big as Magento came over for tea, the Ring would get its hooks in sooner.

[master of read]

Really, the only question is whether the ring can corrupt Magneto.

A. Would Magneto be susceptible? I'd think so. He has strong will power and telepathic resistance, but I'm told either of those things really apples with the One Ring. He's also definitely someone whose ambition and negative emotions can lead to catastrophic results. See... Like, his entire career as a super.villain.

B. Will the ring have enough time to corrupt him? I have no idea. I don't know how quickly the ring affects people, from what distances, or whether holding the ring in a magnetic field is the same as holding it in your hand. I'm also not clear when Magneto even becomes aware of the ring or his starting distance from it, both of which seems like relevant factors. I'm not sure if it is better or worse if he's told about the ring before he's in proximity to it.

He's certainly physically capable of throwing the ring into Mount Doom, or the sun, of whatever. Zero question there. But having the opportunity to destroy the ring wasn't a problem for Isildur either. It didn't seem like he had the ring very long between cutting it off Sauron and standing over Mount Doom while being begged to throw it in. (Was that scene invented for the movie?) I suspect that while Magento is way more powerful than Gandalf, Erik's motivations would ultimately make him easier to manipulate.

Edit: Again, forgive me for using movie canon here, but I've seen it more recently than I read the books. But Gandalf was technically exposed to the ring here and there for decades: whenever he went to visit Bilbo. I don't remember why the ring wasn't actively corrupting Gandalf in that time, but I suspect that if a fish as big as Magento came over for tea, the Ring would get its hooks in sooner.

from my understanding of it, (i'm not the expert like sharp is), the ring works by preying on what you desire most, even if the intention of it is good. gandalf knew about the ring but didnt know exactly that it was the one ring. he had suspisions about it but it wasn't until he really researched it that he knew it was the one ring. it didn't work on bilbo or hobbits because, as sharp said, hobbits don't have many desires beyond just living quiet lives in the shire.

and when frodo tried to give the ring to gandalf, he refused as he feared what the ring could do through him if he decided to use it, even for good. now there are some characters who have resisted the ring, despite knowing what it is. famously, tom Bombadil was not only immune to the ring but had some power over it, (making it disappear from sight). and book faramir flat out refused it because he knew what it did to his brother, stating that if he found it in a ditch somewhere and he could use it to save gondor, he'd leave there.

again, i'm not the expert on this stuff. just answering your questions about it.

[Sharpandpointies]

MoR covered this pretty well.

Really, the only question is whether the ring can corrupt Magneto.

A. Would Magneto be susceptible? I'd think so. He has strong will power and telepathic resistance, but I'm told either of those things really apples with the One Ring. He's also definitely someone whose ambition and negative emotions can lead to catastrophic results. See... Like, his entire career as a super.villain.

As MoR notes, the Ring would have a field day with Mags and his personality. Willpower and telepathic resistance apply to some extent, but there's the matter of 'if he starts picking the thing up, carrying it around, or even putting it on his finger, that's kind of him choosing to open himself up to it.' This gets into the whole deal about Middle Earth people being barred from just 'telepathic control' by their creator, and the Ring being one of those ways around it. But it's also a constant, insidious thing that works at one behind the scenes. All the time. And nobody is on the ball 24/7.

Even Strange gets tired and open to being mentally manipulated.

And it 'offers'. It doesn't force its way in, it wheedles away at people, giving them options, giving them temptations, especially when they're at a low ebb. And all they need to do is start on that path, and boom, they're in trouble, because now it's in.

It's one reason why Faramir made the right choice. He refused the Ring BEFORE he encountered it, and never actually DID come into contact with it. But had he stayed in the area for a long, long time - like Boromir - he might have eventually started messing up.

B. Will the ring have enough time to corrupt him? I have no idea. I don't know how quickly the ring affects people, from what distances, or whether holding the ring in a magnetic field is the same as holding it in your hand. I'm also not clear when Magneto even becomes aware of the ring or his starting distance from it, both of which seems like relevant factors. I'm not sure if it is better or worse if he's told about the ring before he's in proximity to it.

It does take time to really get into the control, person and situation depending (Frodo had it for decades, Boromir - under pressure, with enormous responsibilities, and with big ambitions - caved after just being in its presence for a time). However, the Ring's power grows as Sauron's does, and also with proximity to Mt. Doom. Isildur did take the Ring in the book - it is unsure if people tried to get him to destroy it, and it's possible they didn't (I'd need to go back and check).

Recall that the destruction of the Ruling Ring would also render the Three powerless, and the Elves didn't want that.

Either way, Isildur in the book basically said 'Yeah, I'm claiming this as weregild for the loss of my dad and my brother'. Maybe he meant that. Maybe he was already falling under its power, so close to Mt. Doom and with Sauron 'just' having kicked off. Either way, he shortly after that writes a page about it in his journal, where he states 'it is precious to me'. It's very clear by that point he is under its spell.

This is why my suggestion would be "Magneto laughing stomps all over Sauron's forces, beats Sauron thanks to his helmet and greater power, then goes on to - post Sauron's 'death' - either grab-and-flick the Ring into Mt Doom (we could argue that's possible) or just grabs Frodo and tosses HIM into Mt Doom (Erik being a bit of that kind of person)'.

Edit: Again, forgive me for using movie canon here, but I've seen it more recently than I read the books. But Gandalf was technically exposed to the ring here and there for decades: whenever he went to visit Bilbo. I don't remember why the ring wasn't actively corrupting Gandalf in that time, but I suspect that if a fish as big as Magento came over for tea, the Ring would get its hooks in sooner.

Gandalf is one of those people who is purely good in the story, and even he was afraid of the Ring. But no, it didn't corrupt him on the spot, it doesn't do that. It DOES work on Hobbits, but much more slowly. Even so, by the time Frodo and Sam arrive in Mordor, and Sam has very BRIEFLY become the Ringbearer, we get multiple occasions in the story where the Ring is actually working on Sam. Sam, the one with Hobbit-resistance with possibly the least-big ambitions, the most humble, the quintessential 'unimportant person' that Tolkien was focusing on in his story.

The Ring starts to get to him through his care for Frodo and his love for gardening.

The Ring doesn't get Bombadil at all because he's a being completely without ambitions (in an inhuman, imopssible fashion - it renders him powerless in the story, useless as help in the greater conflict, and that's a point Tolkien wanted to make as well) - and likely of the same order of being as Sauron, if weaker (Tolkien wanted him to be a mystery, and he was, but it's most likely he was one of the Ainur who came down to the world at its inception but didn't join the Valar or Melkor's people).

[Oswin]

What would corruption even mean for magneto? Him wanting to rule over middle earth using the ring as part of his arsenal? Which leaves sauron alive, but would he even be able to kill magneto eventually? Or would magneto turn into sauron?

[Sharpandpointies]

What would corruption even mean for magneto? Him wanting to rule over middle earth using the ring as part of his arsenal? Which leaves sauron alive, but would he even be able to kill magneto eventually? Or would magneto turn into sauron?

Speculation?

Okay, I'll base this on the idea that Magneto doesn't do the smart thing and starts actually being corrupted by the Ring.

He'd take control.

It's something he has been fine with, before - world domination, etc - and he'd do it with the idea of 'with me in control, I will make the world just and safe for all beings' (there are no mutants in Middle Earth, if there were he'd be doing it for them). Or just 'I don't like some of the decisions, I think mine are better' (encouraged by the Ring).

He would become a dictator, and anyone going against his wishes would be going against what he perceived as the greater good that he represented (this is kind of his MO already, in a lot of cases, so it's not a stretch). And it's possible that not all of his decisions would be awful, or start out that way. But he would certainly be a dictator, nobody would be free, and eventually he would become a tyrant, viewing his perspective as the only one of value, and that slowly twisting him into something (even more) terrible.

But this wouldn't be a good plan for him taking care of Sauron.

Magneto doesn't have the magical or spiritual power to wrest control of the Ring from Sauron, is my feeling. Overall, he's more powerful than Sauron, but he's not his equal when it comes to that kind of thing - it's a specific kind of power (granted, Magneto makes 'I can control magnetism' into magic of its own, but still). Which means that if Magneto is wearing the Ring and faces Sauron, he has effectively given Sauron an open road into his mind.

Still, given Magneto's power, he might just crush Sauron at that point. Or maybe he has crushed Sauron BEFORE taking the Ring and becoming corrupted.

But in that case, Sauron would not be destroyed; it might take him another thousand years to bring himself back, but he would. Certainly he wouldn't then try any direct attack against Erik. He would work in secret, building himself back to his old strength, and then begin mentally ripping Erik down through the Ring. And it wouldn't be hard; if Erik has been wearing this thing for a thousand years, by that point he's nothing more than a Wraith under the control of the Ring, itself.

Sauron would get his Ring back, and have a very interesting new servant.

[Beadle]

I realise all of the above is a ‘What If’ scenario, as in ‘What if Magneto does the dumb thing and keeps the ring’, but there’s a few minor but important caveats:
1. Magneto may be an egomaniac, but he’s NOT dumb. He’s tactically quite astute. The chances of him DOING the dumb thing are not high.
2. Mags is defined by his pride in being a mutant. He’s all about power from within (or boosted by other mutants… see Cortez, Fabian). Getting extra power from doohickeys and MacGuffins has never been a big part of his modus operandi.
3. The ring doesn’t control you instantly. Corruption is slow. People can just… take it off. Certainly early in the process. If they recognise they’re being played. Unlike most people in Middle Earth (or the Middle East… whatever), Mags actually knows specifically what it feels like to have someone or something crawling around in his brain. He’d recognise the signs where most wouldn’t.

So sure, there is a universe where Mags does the dumb thing - probably several universes. But the’yre massively outnumbered by the ones where he doesn’t.

[Sharpandpointies]

Absolutely. I'm of the opinion that Magneto actually stomps all over the enemies then flicks the Ring (or the bearer) in Mt. Doom.

This is speculation. Which, of course, I'm going to enjoy. ^_^

[Captain Smith]

Middle East - autofill - Haha!

Do folks in Middle Earth - ahem, know of how the ring works? Thus, would Magneto know of the risks? It really doesn't give him that much in physical power? Thus, if he wants to rule - just destroy it as a possible risk to himself.

What do you do when you become ruler of Middle Earth anyway? Just sit around on your throne? Perhaps Sauron had plans to bring back Melkor/Morgoth as his fearless leader but why would Magneto want to do that? Not being stupid and having experience with pissed off cosmics, don't seem him building a suicide attack fleet to sale over to the place where the ME Cosmics hang out.

He could start a techno-revolution but what for?

I'm for: Destroy Sauron and the ring. Sauron is a wraith - so what - everyday for Marvel. Melkor has another way to come back - I dunno.

[Wildling]

Middle East - autofill - Haha!

Do folks in Middle Earth - ahem, know of how the ring works? Thus, would Magneto know of the risks? It really doesn't give him that much in physical power? Thus, if he wants to rule - just destroy it as a possible risk to himself.

What do you do when you become ruler of Middle Earth anyway? Just sit around on your throne? Perhaps Sauron had plans to bring back Melkor/Morgoth as his fearless leader but why would Magneto want to do that? Not being stupid and having experience with pissed off cosmics, don't seem him building a suicide attack fleet to sale over to the place where the ME Cosmics hang out.

He could start a techno-revolution but what for?

I'm for: Destroy Sauron and the ring. Sauron is a wraith - so what - everyday for Marvel. Melkor has another way to come back - I dunno.

Wasn't the Saruman subplot about evil industry vs nature? Magneto manipulating metal in ME makes me thing he could go in similar directions if influenced by evil magicks.

[Sharpandpointies]

Do folks in Middle Earth - ahem, know of how the ring works? Thus, would Magneto know of the risks? It really doesn't give him that much in physical power? Thus, if he wants to rule - just destroy it as a possible risk to himself.

Magneto would know the risks, they get outlined pretty well by people in the know. Hence him not likely making the dumb choice.

The Ring would enhance him - it always gives power in accord with its user. Magneto, being a leader of people, would likely gain tremendously increased charisma, a greater capacity to dominate and sway others, and possibly a boost to his mutant powers.

What do you do when you become ruler of Middle Earth anyway? Just sit around on your throne?

Same thing that rulers do whatever the system of government happens to be - govern. In their own way.

Perhaps Sauron had plans to bring back Melkor/Morgoth as his fearless leader but why would Magneto want to do that?

Sauron did not. Sauron's plans were to 'make the place efficient, to sculpt the world into his dream of progress'. Basically end-game capitalism with a side of fascism - he would reduce the lesser peoples (pretty much everyone, to him) to slaves and force them to strip the world of its resources to make his ideal slave-society, full of mechanical progress for its own sake and such. Everything would become subordinate to him, as it should be.

Morgoth would be coming back anyway, at the end of days. But that was neither Sauron's interest nor concern.

Wasn't the Saruman subplot about evil industry vs nature? Magneto manipulating metal in ME makes me thing he could go in similar directions if influenced by evil magicks.

Saruman's subplot was indeed in part a more detailed example of the 'basic Sauron idea' - industry and progress that damages society, living things, and so forth. Progress for the sake of progress, without regard for anything else, and everything being forced towards that goal.

The other part of Saruman's subplot was the whole business of 'You can't really win against this sort of thing by joining it and thinking you'll work from within, or by trying to work to change it rather than resisting it. The moment you join this kind of thing, you become it.'

With a side dish of 'people are greedy and fallible.'

Recall that Tolkien went through World War II, saw the whole business with Hitler being allowed to run wild over people while governments tried to appease him or make treaties with him and such.

[Captain Smith]

Magneto bringing techo civlization to Middle Earth is an interesting scenario. I doubt he would want to sit in a Middle Ages level of comfort - even being the ruler. Knowing Marvel levels of tech - the Elves might need divine intervention to save their Blessed Condos on the Beach.

[Wildling]

This is why my suggestion would be "Magneto laughing stomps all over Sauron's forces, beats Sauron thanks to his helmet and greater power, then goes on to - post Sauron's 'death' - either grab-and-flick the Ring into Mt Doom (we could argue that's possible) or just grabs Frodo and tosses HIM into Mt Doom (Erik being a bit of that kind of person)'.

Seriously, Magneto beat Red Skull to a bloody pulp with his bare fists without using his powers, in order to mock humor Skull's feelings of not wanting to die from mutant/non-human powers, before killing him by smashing his head with a masonry block, and he did it in front of his daughter who protested the whole thing but he entrapped her with metal to prevent her from using magic to stop him. This caused Red Skull to be resurrected as a new version of Onslaught, which I think was due to the sheer wrath Magneto had (he had already tried, and failed, to kill Red Skull during the Acts of Vengeance event, in addition to his history with Nazis and the atrocities he witnessed just within this Uncanny Avengers storyline) and the fact Red Skull had Professor X's brain transplanted to his own at the time.

So I think Magneto shouldn't fool around with the Ring at all, just deal with it as soon as possible.

[Sharpandpointies]

Magneto bringing techo civlization to Middle Earth is an interesting scenario. I doubt he would want to sit in a Middle Ages level of comfort - even being the ruler. Knowing Marvel levels of tech - the Elves might need divine intervention to save their Blessed Condos on the Beach.

Unless you can prove that Magneto himself has made devices that allow him to cross to different dimensions or the like (he is not Reed Richards, nor even Tony Stark), Valinor is out of reach of anything Magneto could create. The Eldar there would ignore him.

And if he did somehow show up, he'd need to deal with the Valar, who would likely be rather irked. While Magneto is powerful, he's not up for that kind of fight, not with the scope and depth of what he'd be facing.

Seriously, Magneto beat Red Skull to a bloody pulp with his bare fists without using his powers, in order to mock humor Skull's feelings of not wanting to die from mutant/non-human powers, before killing him by smashing his head with a masonry block, and he did it in front of his daughter who protested the whole thing but he entrapped her with metal to prevent her from using magic to stop him. This caused Red Skull to be resurrected as a new version of Onslaught, which I think was due to the sheer wrath Magneto had (he had already tried, and failed, to kill Red Skull during the Acts of Vengeance event, in addition to his history with Nazis and the atrocities he witnessed just within this Uncanny Avengers storyline) and the fact Red Skull had Professor X's brain transplanted to his own at the time.

So I think Magneto shouldn't fool around with the Ring at all, just deal with it as soon as possible.

Absolutely. Dude is a perfect candidate for getting corrupted.

[Captain Morgan]

So what I'm hearing is that while Magneto would be susceptible to the ring, its influence is enhanced by duration and proximity to Mount Doom, and we can all agree Magneto id uniquely qualified to not give the ring opportunity for either.

Question: why were Gandalf and the elf lady so afraid to even touch the ring when Frodo offered it to them? They certainly made it feel like even monetarily accepting it would be their downfall. Admittedly, both were able to refuse it. But there is a question of whether Magneto putting the ring (or person carrying it) within his magnetic grasp would count as possessing it, and I think Erik is probably more corruptible than Gandalf.

I realise all of the above is a ‘What If’ scenario, as in ‘What if Magneto does the dumb thing and keeps the ring’, but there’s a few minor but important caveats:
1. Magneto may be an egomaniac, but heÂ’s NOT dumb. HeÂ’s tactically quite astute. The chances of him DOING the dumb thing are not high.
2. Mags is defined by his pride in being a mutant. HeÂ’s all about power from within (or boosted by other mutantsÂ… see Cortez, Fabian). Getting extra power from doohickeys and MacGuffins has never been a big part of his modus operandi.
3. The ring doesnÂ’t control you instantly. Corruption is slow. People can justÂ… take it off. Certainly early in the process. If they recognise theyÂ’re being played. Unlike most people in Middle Earth (or the Middle EastÂ… whatever), Mags actually knows specifically what it feels like to have someone or something crawling around in his brain. HeÂ’d recognise the signs where most wouldnÂ’t.

So sure, there is a universe where Mags does the dumb thing - probably several universes. But theÂ’yre massively outnumbered by the ones where he doesnÂ’t.

1. It isn't a matter of being dumb. Hobbits are pretty much the dumbest being on Middle Earth, at least by the definition of "simple." They are also the least susceptible. The ring makes smart people do dumb things by manipulating their ambition. Magneto's ambitions have included world domination and genocide already. Heck, those dark ambitions were already turned into the dumbest Marvel villain of all time, Onslaught. "Look as I create a new sun! Now, watch as I do... Nothing to stop the heroes!"

2. He never struck me as particularly above using MacGuffins either. The movie version that likely inspired the thread built a machine to enhance his powers and turn people into mutants. The comic version is willing to go to great lengths to tip the scales in his favor, like when he altered the Earth's magnetic polarity to make telepathy less effective. The fact that he doesn't bother going for cosmic cubes like Red Skull does strikes me as a genre convention or PIS. Marvel doesn't wkays hang together as a shared universe very well, particularly with the X-Men. Why people are bigoted against mutants but not the Fantasic Four has never held up to scrutiny, for example.

3. Fair point about Magneto recognizing when his mind was being manipulated. But I'll note taking it off and giving it up are two very different things, and no one with more ambition than a hobbit seemed capable of the latter before long.

All that said, I'd bow to Sharp as the resident LoTR expert if he says the ring won't have time here. Just noting that given any significant amount of time I see Magneto crumbling pretty quick.

[Sharpandpointies]

So what I'm hearing is that while Magneto would be susceptible to the ring, its influence is enhanced by duration and proximity to Mount Doom, and we can all agree Magneto id uniquely qualified to not give the ring opportunity for either.

Question: why were Gandalf and the elf lady so afraid to even touch the ring when Frodo offered it to them? They certainly made it feel like even monetarily accepting it would be their downfall. Admittedly, both were able to refuse it. But there is a question of whether Magneto putting the ring (or person carrying it) within his magnetic grasp would count as possessing it, and I think Erik is probably more corruptible than Gandalf.

Okay, solid question.

It's one thing to handle the Ring for a few seconds, and another to cart it around. Recall that Gandalf HAS handled the Ring - he took it from Frodo and tossed it in the fire. Didn't turn him all 'my precious' at that point. He wasn't afraid of 'holding' it.

He was afraid of TAKING it.

When both Galadriel and Gandalf refuse the Ring, the situation is different; Frodo wouldn't be handing it off to them for a moment or two. He was considering handing it right off to them for keepsies. "Gandalf, this is beyond me, you take the Ring." "Galadriel, you are an ancient, wise being of power - I'll give you the Ring if you ask for it."

Then it would be in their possession. It would be theirs. And they would...do what? They can't just sit on it, it needs to be destroyed - that's the point of the quest. But if they hold it, carry it for a long time, it's going to work on them. And the more powerful they are, the more the Ring can do for them.

Now, Gandalf I would say would hold out longer than Galadriel, because Gandalf has less stuff for the Ring to work on (Galadriel, despite her depiction in Amazon's crap show, has a huge character flaw that she flat-out states would be her downfall with the Ring: overweening pride). But Gandalf is - wisely - very sure he wouldn't be able to cart it to Mt. Doom and toss it in; he wouldn't last.

Just noting that given any significant amount of time I see Magneto crumbling pretty quick.

No disagreement from me on this. Again, as Pendaran might say, the Ring would have a field day with Magneto, his personality is pretty much tailor-made for Corruption By Ring™.

But him just 'grab from Ringbearer-flick into Mt. Doom' (or perhaps 'grab Ringbearer and flick into Mt Doom) after stomping all over Sauron's forces, if he kept himself separate from it beforehand (like, completely - I'm talking 'Meets the Ringbearer for the first time at Mt Doom' kind of thing, so near-zero exposure)? No real worries at all, I feel.