New Goblin to be born in ‘Amazing Spider-Man’ #51 and #52

[marhawkman]

I get arguing execution--that's in the eye of the beholder. The wider-than-standart tonal variety, tho, I have zero issue with. Shonen manga especially loves running the emotional gamut in 0.5 seconds, at times to great success.

Go read Chainsaw-Man everyone! (and One Piece)

Tear jerking plot twists hit BECAUSE it's like a car crash. The story stops to get your attention. Like in One Piece, the Marineford fight was a total rollercoaster. Whitebeard shows up to stop Ace's execution... fails... goes nuts wrecking Marines... dies anyways. A LOT of people die in the biggest fight One Piece had seen yet. You felt a lot of stuff.... the weird comedy... actually accented just how nuts the stakes actually were. Everyone knows it's a fight to the death... including the people who REALLY aren't ready for that. Big players want to fight... and everyone else gets stuck with it. Which is a super dark moment specifically to illustrate how serious it is.

You went away not on a high... but dreading the next fight. But you knew things had happened that MEANT something. The DBZ-level fight was just the story telling device for a rather emotional story. This was a two-sided FAFO scenario where both sides had been aggressively posturing and now this was the breaking point.

[Frontier]

I get arguing execution--that's in the eye of the beholder. The wider-than-standart tonal variety, tho, I have zero issue with. Shonen manga especially loves running the emotional gamut in 0.5 seconds, at times to great success.

Go read Chainsaw-Man everyone! (and One Piece)

I would argue it's better executed and feel more cohesive compared to Wells' attempts with ASM.

[Tuck]

NO ONE is saying Spider-Man is or should be Finnegan’s Wake, but it should be more than this, and frequently has been.

An impenetrable brick filled with nonsense words? Sounds like a lot of comics.

[Vegan]

An impenetrable brick filled with nonsense words? Sounds like a lot of comics.

Oh come on.

Comics are clearly shingles in construction area metaphors. Thin and floppy

[Xix25]

I have never found a Spider-Man comic challenging. Entertaining, thrilling, amusing, moving, occasionally educational (picked up some new words as a kid), but never challenging. I've never found a Spider-Man comic to be so complex, nuanced and deeply layered that it demands multiple careful re-reads to fully grasp. So the idea that Spider-Man comics aren't deep and challenging like they were in the good old days is bizarre to me.

I don't think a Spider-Man comic should be so bad that it's not worth re-reading ever again though. We can and should expect better from the creative team to make comics worth re-reading even if they're not incredible works of art. As it stands, all this run has for it is to be an object lesson in how to avoid making mistakes in comics storytelling.

[wleakr]

I don't think a Spider-Man comic should be so bad that it's not worth re-reading ever again though. We can and should expect better from the creative team to make comics worth re-reading even if they're not incredible works of art. As it stands, all this run has for it is to be an object lesson in how to avoid making mistakes in comics storytelling.

I'm sure there are creatives on other titles at various comic publishers hoping they can make the "mistakes" this run is apparently making.

[Xix25]

I'm sure there are creatives on other titles at various comic publishers hoping they can make the "mistakes" this run is apparently making.

Why hope to make bad decisions? Surely they'd be aiming to make good art?

[wleakr]

Why hope to make bad decisions? Surely they'd be aiming to make good art?

Make good art and make money for their company. ASM is doing that.

[ImOctavius]

Make good art and make money for their company. ASM is doing that.

Only making money.

[Xix25]

Make good art and make money for their company. ASM is doing that.

ASM makes money, but it's not good art. So clearly there is no real rebuttal to my queries earlier then.

[bob.schoonover]

ASM makes money, but it's not good art. So clearly there is no real rebuttal to my queries earlier then.

Your queries are based on a premise you presented but wleakr is not required to believe. He put "mistakes" in quotes to say "you think they're mistakes but they're working commercially." Art is subjective, people buy books for different reasons, and the fact that Zeb Wells is writing something that appeals to other people does not mean he's made bad art.

[wleakr]

^^^ All of this.

I'm not trying to rebut anything or win an argument.

It is perfectly ok that folks don't enjoy this run.

For me, and I know I've said this before, it's as simple as find what you like and avoid what you don't.

[Xix25]

Your queries are based on a premise you presented but wleakr is not required to believe. He put "mistakes" in quotes to say "you think they're mistakes but they're working commercially." Art is subjective, people buy books for different reasons, and the fact that Zeb Wells is writing something that appeals to other people does not mean he's made bad art.

I haven't seen anything that suggests these aren't mistakes though. I have no reason to believe that premise which wleakr seems to want people to.

[Garlador]

I haven't seen anything that suggests these aren't mistakes though. I have no reason to believe that premise which wleakr seems to want people to.

We’ve literally had Lowe put in retractions and corrections as well as reprints fix errors and oversights. The complaints that led to those actions sure seem like admission of “mistakes” to me.

Beyond that, I’ve noticed Lowe has repeatedly responded to readers with some variance of the phrase “I disagree with your assessments” and “you’re reading it wrong”, usually without offering a clarification on how it’s supposed to be interpreted. But that’s also not the responsibility of the readers. “Death of the Author” has been at play with this run repeatedly, and if so many people are “reading it wrong” then that’s a failure on the author’s part to properly provide the correct reading.

It’s far more than just a few voicing their concerns at problematic elements.

[wleakr]

I haven't seen anything that suggests these aren't mistakes though. I have no reason to believe that premise which wleakr seems to want people to.

You mean the premise of folks finding, reading and enjoying books they like?

If there are truly mistakes in this run, you should run it by Marvel and request a No-Prize!