New Goblin to be born in ‘Amazing Spider-Man’ #51 and #52

[SturdyMike89]

Getting back on topic, I have a long-standing policy not to entirely write-out any comic until it's actually out and the full context is understood. "Never judge a book by its cover", after all, and it's not like comics haven't used misleading or intentionally deceptive covers and solicitations before. For all we know, it could be Peter faking it or going undercover or something.

I don't feel like this run has necessarily earned the benefit of the doubt or my trust, but I maintain it's all in the execution. Last time was... underwhelming... for me. And the time before that. And the time before that. But I'll maintain my focus to judge a story in the present and not speculation on the future. I always hope for the best, while at the same time I have reasonable expectations based on the prior 50 issues.

So, no, I don't have any real enthusiasm for Spider-Goblin 2 1/2: The Smell of Fear, but that doesn't mean I'm entirely closed off to a good story being told with this situation. It remains bizarre given we JUST DID THIS, but... okay, we're doing this again. Round 2. Good luck.

That is fair. This may turn out to be a great or at least a decent enough story. But I have to look at past performance. IMHO Zeb Wells has not delivered at all. And since I vote with wallet, I am not willing to give this run another dime. I will come back here and see if I'm right, but I have a sad sinking feeling that I will be validated.

[Garlador]

I specifically said JMS's run on Amazing Spider-Man didn't use the civilian supporting cast very much. You said you thought JMS's run on Amazing Spider-Man did make good use of the civilian supporting cast, and to support your argument you gave examples that were from a different comic by a different writer.

I try to choose my words carefully so that they're not open to misinterpretation. When I said "JMS's Amazing Spider-Man" I meant "issues of Amazing Spider-Man written by JMS". I did not mean "issues of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man written by Peter David".

I mean, my statement is above, unedited. You quoted me, verbatim. I mentioned that I felt JMS's Spider-Man had a good supporting cast, mentioned other stories that spun off of his run that I greatly enjoyed focusing on civilians, and then brought it all back with Aunt May getting the most development she had ever had in decades. That's the whole package - from JMS to Peter David to Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa to Matt Fraction to Paul Jenkins - multiple writers were putting in the work to flesh out people other than Peter Parker, but also those important to him and in his sphere of influence. I stand by my statements in full.

And even you must agree that the current landscape of Spider-Man is struggling right now with a grounded supporting cast, even if you disagree with my views on the JMS era of comics.

For what it's worth, even the early-to-mid-2000s are a far cry from the character work I was seeing under the pen of DeFalco, DeMatteis, Mackie, and others. I've been revisiting those story and - wow, the character work for folks like Betty and Flash and MJ and Aunt Anna and so many other civilians is so incongruent with modern Spider-Man. It's sorely missed.

[ARkadelphia]

I don't think so. People who are bitter about something still care. He is apathetic.

Twas merely a joke. @Kurolegacy got it

[xpyred]

"Peter Parker is...the Spider-Goblin."

Not going to lie - I don't read captions or solit blurbs anymore. Now since the original Civil War. They never really add up to what's in the book.

[Kurus]

I don't think Peter Parker or Clark Kent should scream in anger at their romantic partners or smash furniture in front of them. Nothing you can say will convince me otherwise.

That"s one of the many reasons these comics suck now. Like the fact you're lumping in Superman and Spider-Man tells the whole story. Superman is supposed to be a Paragon, and living ideal. While Peter used to be a much more flawed, human character. But Marvel have just sanded off all his edges in the name of mass appeal,which is ridiculous cause he was already one of the most popular characters in the world.

[Lee]

That"s one of the many reasons these comics suck now. Like the fact you're lumping in Superman and Spider-Man tells the whole story. Superman is supposed to be a Paragon, and living ideal. While Peter used to be a much more flawed, human character. But Marvel have just sanded off all his edges in the name of mass appeal,which is ridiculous cause he was already one of the most popular characters in the world.

I never said that Spider-Man and Superman should be written the same way. I am talking about one particular thing. You will find many posts on this forum where people have been upset about Peter Parker being "pathetic", "a loser", "a man-child" etc., where I have argued that Peter being down on his luck, making mistakes and losing fights is good for the character and the series.

Right now I am talking about one particular thing.

I don't think Peter screaming at his girlfriend or wife in anger and throwing around and smashing furniture in front of her should be one of his rough edges. I don't think that particular thing should be one of his flaws. I also think the same thing of Clark Kent. I think that particular thing is something Peter Parker and Clark Kent should have in common.

When I say "I don't think characters A and B should do X" I am not saying "I think characters A and B should be identical". I am talking about one particular behavior.

I mean, my statement is above, unedited. You quoted me, verbatim. I mentioned that I felt JMS's Spider-Man had a good supporting cast, mentioned other stories that spun off of his run that I greatly enjoyed focusing on civilians, and then brought it all back with Aunt May getting the most development she had ever had in decades. That's the whole package - from JMS to Peter David to Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa to Matt Fraction to Paul Jenkins - multiple writers were putting in the work to flesh out people other than Peter Parker, but also those important to him and in his sphere of influence. I stand by my statements in full.

And even you must agree that the current landscape of Spider-Man is struggling right now with a grounded supporting cast, even if you disagree with my views on the JMS era of comics.

For what it's worth, even the early-to-mid-2000s are a far cry from the character work I was seeing under the pen of DeFalco, DeMatteis, Mackie, and others. I've been revisiting those story and - wow, the character work for folks like Betty and Flash and MJ and Aunt Anna and so many other civilians is so incongruent with modern Spider-Man. It's sorely missed.

No. Let's roll this back.

I said: "I don't think it's the most lacking ASM run for the civilian supporting cast, that would be JMS's run."

You responded with: "And I'll even disagree with the claim JMS's run lacked it, because I've re-read it recently and it's great. If anything, I loved that after Peter unmasks, we have multiple stories shining a light on how the civilian friends and loved ones in his life react to this shocking news, from Jonah to Betty to even older love interests like Debra. They got more spotlight and growth in that window of time than all the years after. And don't get me started on how much Aunt May improved under the JMS run once she knew the truth of his identity and became more integral to his life as a supporting cast member (JMS actually says the loss of that dynamic with May hurts him more than the loss of the marriage, particularly as Peter's "coming out" as Spider-Man was widely praised by queer readers as similar to their own struggles with being open with their true selves to their parents. And then Marvel put him "back in the closet" with May for the sacred status quo...)"

I made a clear and concise statement about one particular writer's run on one particular comic.

You replied saying that you disagreed with my statement, then gave story examples that were from a different comic by a different writer. You presented those examples as though they were a counter-argument to my statement, even though they weren't relevant to what I said, because they were different stories from a different series by a different writer. You didn't even mention that they were stories from a different series and a different writer.

---

It is incredibly difficult to have even the simplest of conversations here sometimes.

"I like pancakes."

"So you hate waffles?"

[Garlador]

No. Let's roll this back.

I said: "I don't think it's the most lacking ASM run for the civilian supporting cast, that would be JMS's run."

You responded with: "And I'll even disagree with the claim JMS's run lacked it, because I've re-read it recently and it's great. If anything, I loved that after Peter unmasks, we have multiple stories shining a light on how the civilian friends and loved ones in his life react to this shocking news, from Jonah to Betty to even older love interests like Debra. They got more spotlight and growth in that window of time than all the years after. And don't get me started on how much Aunt May improved under the JMS run once she knew the truth of his identity and became more integral to his life as a supporting cast member (JMS actually says the loss of that dynamic with May hurts him more than the loss of the marriage, particularly as Peter's "coming out" as Spider-Man was widely praised by queer readers as similar to their own struggles with being open with their true selves to their parents. And then Marvel put him "back in the closet" with May for the sacred status quo...)"

I made a clear and concise statement about one particular writer's run on one particular comic.

You replied saying that you disagreed with my statement, then gave story examples that were from a different comic by a different writer. You presented those examples as though they were a counter-argument to my statement, even though they weren't relevant to what I said, because they were different stories from a different series by a different writer. You didn't even mention that they were stories from a different series and a different writer.

---

It is incredibly difficult to have even the simplest of conversations here sometimes.

"I like pancakes."

"So you hate waffles?"

Oh for the love of…

You’re reading too deep into this. Beyond the spin-off stories, I literally keep praising JMS’s handling of Aunt May, and most here will agree he wrote a phenomenal MJ. Are they not THE two most important supporting cast members in the book?

In the current run, the problems with how MJ has been handled have been enumerated endlessly (and she never consistently appears), and Aunt May is barely in it either. So, yes, I say again JMS handled the supporting cast better. Quality over quantity.

That is fair. This may turn out to be a great or at least a decent enough story. But I have to look at past performance. IMHO Zeb Wells has not delivered at all. And since I vote with wallet, I am not willing to give this run another dime. I will come back here and see if I'm right, but I have a sad sinking feeling that I will be validated.

Even if they pull it off, this is going to be a wildly inconsistent run when someone gets these as trades. I don’t envy anyone who’ll check out the trades of this run to binge-read. The pacing is going to be so wild and off. It already has been one of the most strangely-paced runs I’ve ever experienced before we got the reveal of Goblinized Peter II: The Revenge.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

It already has been one of the most strangely-paced runs I’ve ever experienced before we got the reveal of Goblinized Peter II: The Revenge.

This is neither here nor there, but I'd definitely vote for "Smell of Fear" for the de facto branding for this sudden encore. But if we're just broadening the franchise and reaching for the stars, a "The Osbornlander: The Quickening" really can't (or shouldn't) be far behind.

[Captain Craig]

This has to be a belated April's Fools joke, surely. Looks like something out of the old Spider-Man 90s toys.

Here is the joke upon a joke that is Spider Goblin.
spidergoblin.jpg

[Mercwmouth12]

Here is the joke upon a joke that is Spider Goblin.
spidergoblin.jpg

What if the main idea to get to this point in the run was because Wells found this toy in a bargain bin somewhere?

[Celgress]

Here is the joke upon a joke that is Spider Goblin.
spidergoblin.jpg

The entire situation with Wells reminds me of this classic clip from South Park -

[CaptainUniverse]

The entire situation with Wells reminds me of this classic clip from South Park -

Especially the M. Night Shyamalan part. A story as insulting, moronic and full of nothing but "twists" like Dead Language probably originated in a similar manner.

[Garlador]

This is neither here nor there, but I'd definitely vote for "Smell of Fear" for the de facto branding for this sudden encore. But if we're just broadening the franchise and reaching for the stars, a "The Osbornlander: The Quickening" really can't (or shouldn't) be far behind.

I’m glad someone caught on.

But as I said, we’ll have to judge Spider-Goblin IV: The Quest for Peace on its own merits.

[SturdyMike89]

Here is the joke upon a joke that is Spider Goblin.
spidergoblin.jpg

This whole thing reminds me of what someone said about Star Wars Episode IX. How it felt like the story was being broken down by two nine year olds playing with their action figures after school. I get the same vibe here. "Yeah, and then Spidey gets turned all evil and gobliny." "And then he beats up and scares all his villains." "And then superheroes go after him and he beats them up so they all hate him now." "And then, there is a huge fight and everyone thinks Spidey is all bad now. Everyone hates him." "And then Mary Jane gets him to stop by telling him she loves him and he's all good again."

[wleakr]

This whole thing reminds me of what someone said about Star Wars Episode IX. How it felt like the story was being broken down by two nine year olds playing with their action figures after school. I get the same vibe here. "Yeah, and then Spidey gets turned all evil and gobliny." "And then he beats up and scares all his villains." "And then superheroes go after him and he beats them up so they all hate him now." "And then, there is a huge fight and everyone thinks Spidey is all bad now. Everyone hates him." "And then Mary Jane gets him to stop by telling him she loves him and he's all good again."

You actually had a good story plot going with this up until that ending...so hard to stick the landing!