"The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest
I don't think Peter Parker or Clark Kent should scream at their partners or throw things around in anger in front of their partners, period.
People here go on about it all the time, but it wasn't what was in the story. Paul was a researcher, the goal was knowledge, he had no idea that his dad had evil intentions. Paul is morally cleaner than Silver Age Tony Stark and Bruce Banner.
The Brand New Day run started 16 years ago. I think the civilian supporting cast has diminished somewhat since then, but not quickly.
Some of the stories you're talking about were in Peter David's Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, not JMS's Amazing Spider-Man.
JMS's Amazing Spider-Man didn't use the extended civilian supporting cast very much, outside of MJ and May, who both lived with Peter and both knew he was Spider-Man. Then they all went to live in a tower with the Avengers. Peter's relationships with ordinary people who only knew him as plain old Peter Parker fell by the wayside during that era of Amazing Spider-Man.
*cracks knuckles*
People shouldn't make mistakes, but they do. And yelling at their partners is not some moral threshold that once crossed can never be mended again. If we demand perfection from these characters, they'll get very boring very quickly. As I said, even Clark has yelled and argued with Lois, and nobody is claiming they aren't THE most iconic couple at DC Comics.
Or let's go with Marvel's most reliable couple - Sue & Reed. Their history is rife with yelling, conflict, fights, and temper tantrums.
Our flaws and our anger make us HUMAN. Peter shouldn't yell at his spouse? Well... he has. He did. He apologized. So has Clark Kent, Reed Richards, Wally West, and every other hero whose partner will eventually stress them out, because that's part of love and marriage. One day they're your best friend, the next you might be at each other's throats, but so long as you work through it and resolve it in a healthy way then that's just part of the journey most couples have. And, I must emphasize, don't confuse expressions of anger and raising your voice as equivalent to chronic spousal abuse either. People make mistakes and that's what makes them interesting and relatable in fiction as well, especially the steps they take to atone for them. Peter's highest qualities is he always cools off and tries to make things right with the people he loves. There's literally decades of that history, up to the mid-2000s.
It didn't used to be sequestered off in "Peter's only got an edge if he's wearing the symbiote/possessed by Otto/infected by Norman".
Again, I'll have my Paul rants saved for another time, but Tony and Bruce didn't help exterminate billions of lives... but I have my own problems with 616 Tony and Bruce as well, so it's a race to the bottom here. I'll simply say that, again, multiple people have found Paul's sob story inconsistent and troublesome, his actions shady, all those who could vouch for his version of events conveniently dead, and the power imbalance he's held over MJ in the narrative has raised more than a few eyebrows. But talking about Paul right now is a bit of a deflection, because I'm not about to, again, compare the genocide of the human race instigated by a grown man to Uncle Ben's death due to the INACTION of a literal child.
Yes. Created from the era and events of JMS's Amazing Spider-Man. Let's not get pedantic here. The argument was that civilian supporting characters were lessened during JMS's run... and I mentioned the characters that at that same time were being elevated and focused on, spinning off directly from JMS's work. Peter David absolutely capitalized on supporting the main title's narrative power by showcasing the impact it had on the normal people (as did many other writers).
That's what happens when you expose your identity to the world, but even predating that, it's not like the cast was written out. As you yourself said, Spidey Office had plenty of books and stories focusing on the civilians. I've never been one to ascribe to ASM as the "only" book that matters in a Spider-Man continuity, after all.
And that's the issue right now for many readers; we don't have our Peter David's Friendly Neighborhood really filling the void yet. Again, we'll see what Weisman can do, but the supporting normal cast has all but vanished and/or regressed terribly.
Last edited by Garlador; 04-14-2024 at 01:17 PM.
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And yet those relationships were incredibly rich, developed, nuanced and stories were intimate and character driven.
Frankly, I'd take quality character writing and development over quantity of characters. But everything about ASM nowadays is quantity over quality. All flash and no substance.
If anything, ASM needs to be scaled back with a focus on more grounded psychological intimacy with the core cast and less of this high concept absurdity.
Last edited by Spider-Tiger; 04-14-2024 at 01:39 PM.
Getting back on topic, I have a long-standing policy not to entirely write-out any comic until it's actually out and the full context is understood. "Never judge a book by its cover", after all, and it's not like comics haven't used misleading or intentionally deceptive covers and solicitations before. For all we know, it could be Peter faking it or going undercover or something.
I don't feel like this run has necessarily earned the benefit of the doubt or my trust, but I maintain it's all in the execution. Last time was... underwhelming... for me. And the time before that. And the time before that. But I'll maintain my focus to judge a story in the present and not speculation on the future. I always hope for the best, while at the same time I have reasonable expectations based on the prior 50 issues.
So, no, I don't have any real enthusiasm for Spider-Goblin 2 1/2: The Smell of Fear, but that doesn't mean I'm entirely closed off to a good story being told with this situation. It remains bizarre given we JUST DID THIS, but... okay, we're doing this again. Round 2. Good luck.
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But now it's Wells basically repeating himself...in his own run.
I think the problem was the character writing and some of the characters involved just wasn't great/all that interesting.
It's why Dexter Bennet and Grady Scraps aren't on any top 20 supporting cast lists (though they may be on some).
Well, now I know Sue Storm once ended up buck-naked after forcefielding herself out of her costume!
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I don't think Peter Parker or Clark Kent should scream in anger at their romantic partners or smash furniture in front of them. Nothing you can say will convince me otherwise.
I specifically said JMS's run on Amazing Spider-Man didn't use the civilian supporting cast very much. You said you thought JMS's run on Amazing Spider-Man did make good use of the civilian supporting cast, and to support your argument you gave examples that were from a different comic by a different writer.
I try to choose my words carefully so that they're not open to misinterpretation. When I said "JMS's Amazing Spider-Man" I meant "issues of Amazing Spider-Man written by JMS". I did not mean "issues of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man written by Peter David".
Honestly, I don't get how this version of the Spider-Goblin/Evil Peter is supposed to be an interesting plot hook. They managed to make the previous version into a mess, and I'm supposed to be hyped up for a rerun of the same? Don't see how people can support this level of storytelling.
Do we know for sure it's Peter as the goblin? Has anyone mentioned the possibility of it being Ben this time around considering Queen Goblin is around with that Winkler machine.